Nukes best thing that happend to Japan.

I just want to point out that this sh!t has nothing to do with war on terror..

Only horrible or monsterous act of terror here is the detonation of two nuclear weapons against Japanese civilians.. kind of thing that should make all of you forget some tiny incedent at WTC very quickly.. it really should.. but maybe you all are just racists?

And BTW there was no weapons factories in either city.. they were (the claims..) made up to ease your conscience..

But now i see that you have none.. of it.. you bastards belive it is right to kill millions of Japanese for 2000 seilors who were sacrificed so you could go into the war as marthyrs.. the incoming 1st wave of attacking Japanese planes were dedected long before the attack came.. (By radar..) the officer in charge told the operator to ignore them.. and no interceptors were scrambled.. i just wonder why? Maybe they got their orders to just sit by and spectate the assault.. so that US could join ww2.. as a victim..

[Edited on 9-8-2003 by Uninen]

And.. i also told them that their (US..) democracy is a joke.. and so on.. youll get the point..



[Edited on 10-8-2003 by Uninen]

Unien, please, you make yourself look like a ratard posting like this, get some facts before you post such silly crap.

First of all, millions of japanese did not die in the nuke attacks, the death count was 100,000. And I like how you seem to forget what went on in your own backyard: the bombing of dresden, which was a conventional firebombing that you seem to think is more humane, killed 400,000 people and sentanced them to a slow, painful death. i would condemn you as the racist, as you seem to think the deaths of 400,000 germans is somehow less mosterous then the flash bang death of 100,000 Japanese. But of course, i wouldnt expect a European to understand this: you seem to forget that YOU committed and STARTED these bloody wars because of your incompetance and stupidity in politics. And you DARE condemn us? How many times has finland been raped and invaded by Russia? Dont make me laugh, fool!

I would hardly expect the socialst republic of Europe to undertsand a thing like caring about its own people more than the enemies who would destroy it, but I shall say nonetheless. japan attacked first. If they didnt wanna get nuked, they should have left us out. They were busy committing worse crimes against the Chinese and Koreans than the germans ever did to any of its occupied nations. Horrors upon horros, that, to this day, Chinese and Koreans spit at the mention of japan, and I know Philipinos who quit thier jobs when our boss hired a Japanese man as a plant supervisor.

But go back to your pipedreams and Eurofantasies of philanthropy and surreal mind control. yes, if the nuking of 100000 japanese prevented 2000 of our men and women from dying, so be it.

Thanks Skadi_elf, Rome fell because there were not enough Romans like you. America will fall because there are not enough Americans like you.

When an American has to die to win a war, so be it.

But when an American does not have to die to stop a war, how do you explain to the American's family, that he died because you would not waste the lives of Murderers and Fanatics, that would not listen to reason?

Truman's decision to drop the bombs were not at the drop of a hat, in fact, the primary factor in his decision was nothing less than waking up in the middle of the night for a peice of cake, and bumping into his head chef, a lady whose son was in the war.

He sat there and told her he was glad that the war in Europe was over, and she cut him off telling him "But my son is in the Pacific".

Sometimes one person can make you realize that you as the president, are responsible for millions like that one.

Truman like ANY GOOD AMERICAN.

Could no longer bring himself to see the signs posted, "Whose son will be the last to die?"

How could any president, regardless of how abhorrent to all war they are, in such times, not drop the bomb?

The Japanese, had every ability to save hundreds of thousands of Civilians, if not Millions of Civilians, by surrendering in 1944, '43, '42, '41, '30, 1890.

The Japanese, started a war 50 years, before we finished it.

They not only had it coming.

They wished it upon themselves.

For 3 years we avoided War while Europe incinerated, and for decades we ignored the attrocities of Japan in Asia.

Just before the year of '42, all that changed, and, while "Both sides detested war, one would make war to destroy peace, and one would accept war to save it."

We as Americans have no concern for the choices others make, just as they dealt judgment upon us upon the islands of the pacific, and we accepted such judgement.

We dealt judgment upon them on their homeland, and they accepted it.

And then we dealt again a similar judgement, and for 5 more days, they again, accepted it.

And finally on the 6th day after we gave them what they asked for, they changed their minds.

And asked for Peace.

Chebob, I'm sorry that you believe the Japanese would have had it any other way.

Ok, heres my final thought. Everyone, it seems, who agrees to the nuking of Japan, have 3 problems -

1) Assuming that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were producing weapons/military/trained civilians

2) Because the Japanese government were evil, the Japanese civilians were evil, so it didn't matter who they bombed.

3) Showing the modern fashionable ultra-patriotic American ideaology - "We got atacked......NO ONE ATTACKS US OR THEY SHALL FEAR THE FULL BRUNT OF OUR WRATH........Oh, and by the way, it's for their own good darling......"

chebob, ask the Chinese who they thought were the bigger evil. Ask the Koreans, ask the rest of Asia if they felt the nuking of Japan was wrong.

As freemasons little article states, the japanese military had NO intent on surrendering, even when it was threatened the Tokyo was to be nuked. So, you have no problems filling body bags with American soldiers to preserve our confirmed enemies who basically not only attacked us first, but worked hard and finding newer and more horrid ways to kill us. remeber those ballon bombs they sent our way, the ones that landed on the west coast and kileld a couple of people? Those were experiments, testing the idea of sending tiny ballons with explosives, chemicals, biologicals, to see if it was efficent enough. They were intent on annihilating and spreading horrid plagues upon us. So, yes, in theory, the Japanese govornment was evil.

Remneber, Freemason, Rome fell because she grew to arrogant and proud, and overextended herslef, as we are doing. We need to pull out, repair the damage done, build up our borders, isolate ourselves, and get rid of the noose and collar the middle east has on us with thier filthy oil. We need our own independant energy sources, manufacturing brought back to our shores, ect. Thuis, once we are is9olated, self sufficient, and built up suffeiciently where we can take on any threat, we will finally be able to tell the world to go # itself and be no longer be drawn into the problems they themselves created eons before we were ever born. I have no desire for world American domination, I have the desire for a strong, secure, independant America that is free of evil shadow gov, free of bankers andn sellout leaders, free of corporate tyranny, and free of resource drain. No more shifty allies pulling us into shifty conflicts, no more waves of soldiers commin back in body bags. No more creating enemies out of poor allies, and allies out of future enemies.

The rest of the world seems to think they can do without us, and I agree. Ive seen history, seen how they do. They do.uh, just fine, and Id like to leave them to it. The security, health, well being, and prosperity of an independant America is all i am concerned about.

Maynard, go to a library, a big one and ask for books on it. For the video, I don't know where to get one, the teach showed it to us. I think it was a history channel tape though. Could probably go online and find it though.

Anyways, Japan got what was coming to it. They started a war, we finished it. If they had finished it, well, Taka Merigoti Moron(Thank You Moron)

Thermonuke: "According to Jakomo's view. We were very wrong for counter-attacking Japan after Pearl Harbor. "

No, what I'm saying is that you shouldn't use Pearl Harbor to justify Hiroshima and Nagasaki, because they're completely different situations.

"Jakomo wrote "The Japanese had no serious regard for human life? As opposed to the US military? Hahaha."

Please, Im not even going to dignify that with thought. "

For all those terrible pictures of Japanese army butchery, make a big pile of charred flesh, entire families melted into big wet hunks of meat, and make it big enough to accommodate the body mass of 200,000 people. Then stamp it "Care of Uncle Sam".

And to everyone saying that what the US did was justified, here's a great timely article from Robert S. McNamara, Secretary of Defense under Presidents John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson. Read the whole article, it's good, but I copied some salient points.

www.charlotte.com...

"That night, he'd sent out 334 B-29 bombers, seeking to inflict, as he put it, the maximum target destruction for the minimum loss of American lives. World War II was entering its final months, and the United States was beginning the last, devastating push for an unconditional Japanese surrender.

On that one night alone, LeMay's bombers burned to death 83,793 Japanese civilians and injured 40,918 more. The planes dropped firebombs and flew lower than they had in the past and therefore were more accurate and more destructive.

They leveled a large part of Tokyo. It was a wooden city and burned like a match when it was firebombed.

That night's raid was only the first of 67. Night after night -- 66 more times -- crews were sent out over the skies of Japan. Over a period of months American bombs inflicted extraordinary damage on a host of Japanese cities -- 900,000 killed, 1.3 million injured, more than half the population displaced."...

..."One other thing LeMay said, and I heard him say it myself: "If we lose the war, we'll be tried as war criminals.""

"The "just war" theory, first expounded by the great Catholic thinkers (I am a Protestant), argues that the application of military power should be proportional to the cause to which you're applying it. A prosecutor would have argued that burning to death 83,000 civilians in a single night and following up with 66 additional raids was not proportional to our war aims."

"Is it legal to incinerate 83,000 people in a single night to achieve your war aims? Was Hiroshima legal? Was the use of Agent Orange -- which occurred while I was secretary of defense -- a violation of international law?

These questions are critical."

Of course, what kind of validity do his statements come with, considering he served his country in some of the highest governmental positions possible for decades.

83,000 civilians in one night. September 11th plus another 80,000.


Jakomo

Originally posted by chebob

Originally posted by KrazyIvan



You sir are a moron. if the atom bombs whould of not been dropped millions more cicilians would of taken their own lives. not to mention the soviets, under stalin at the time, probally woulda killed alot of people. not to emntion that alot of our boys woulda been killed invading japan. take omaha beach on d day and multiply it ten or even 50 times that. maybe even 100 times.

No sir, I am not a moron. Although I assume that you are a moron for making such a statement. Fighting a war against Japanese military would have been a lot more "acceptable" (in terms of war), than just nuking a random 200,000 Japanese civilians to scare the whole country. It was bullying. It was cowardly.

And all that BS about the entire Japanese civilisation being trained, armed and ready to wipe out all the U.S/U.K. soldiers........that's just speculation and propoganda. There were other ways to end the war, even if it did take longer and cost military lives, although "millions" of US soldiers wouldn't have died. But War is Soldier Vs. Soldier, not Soldier Vs. Citizen, the American (and who ever else was in on it) Military should have been prepared to fight on in order to save those hundreds of thousands of innocent lives that were "Nuked".

But the US government was eager to test out their new toy, and they saw an oppurtunity that appealed to their childish, bloodthirsty ways.

HEY! its either kill
200,000 or 200,000,000 you pick!

First off the "Just War" was not expounded by Catholics, brining religion into this is always the sign of liberal stupidity.

Just War derived from Rome, which believed they were not only going to win, but that they were SUPPOSED to win.

They believed that any War they fought they were in the right, and if they weren't in the right they weren't fighting.

And for the most part of the Republic it worked, when Rome became an Empire the concept was lost and the Emperors fought whatever War they wanted.

Jakomo, you and Chebob and others, all seem to ignore the fact that if the Japanese Civilians were "good" they'd have stopped the war.

Unlike other nations say Germany or America, where dirty no-nos were swept under the rug so that people did not ask for a withdrawl from the conflict. Or force a withdrawl by simply stop fighting or working.

Which happens, believe it or not.

The Japanese knew fully the attrocities commited by their sons and brothers and husbands.

They knew fully about such incidences as the Rape of Nanking "Nanjing"

They knew fully of the brutal tortures their soldiers did and they praised it.

They cheered it and glorified it.

They got what any good Nazi got, Justice.

It's really a shame that people today are asking "Is it legal to nuke someone, to use agent orange" blah blah...

Is it legal to shoot someone? Idiots.

Right makes Might...and we were right, so we used that might of ours to save as many US lives as possible, which consequently saved many more Japanese lives, that would have been lost in homeland invasion.

However, to those idiots who still whine about how wars are fought.

THANK GOD YOU DIDN'T LIVE IN 100 AD!

Nah then you'll just have the Roman army roll over your asses, and when you've surrendered they'll Crucify you.

They'll burn down your villages, murder anyone who was related to those fighting, and then declare the rest of the population "Roman".

If there was an uprising they'd simply go in and slaughter the entire town, doesn't matter if the uprising was just because of 100 people..all 10,000 would go.

So you should just shut up and stop lecturing people on what is right and what is wrong in war.

What is right, is what works with the least amount of pain necessary.

Originally posted by johnb

Originally posted by Attero Auctorita
We are the United States of America!We have been appointed by God's divine message to scour the earth and clense it of those who are impure!

Better nuke yourselves then

UK first.

Originally posted by KrazyIvan

HEY! its either kill
200,000 or 200,000,000 you pick!

Yep......you are a dimensional traveler who viewed the "non-atomic" solutions and recorded the 200,000,000 million deaths that ensued. You and FreeMason, THINK that you know what is best for everyone, but you don't.

In a few years time you'll be saying "IF we didn't invade Iraq Saddam would have joined with Osama and killed millions of Americans. We were right."

Get your head out of your ass and realise melting hundreds of thousands of innocent people is nothing to gloat about. Ever. Ever. Ever.

In your view, if someone is going to kill 2 people, then it is humane to tie the person up, burn his feet off, poke his eyes out and bite his genitals, as opposed to putting him in jail, because you saved those two lives and destroyed just one. It's a sick mentality.

Like you've been saying, War is War. If a lot more soldiers had to die to save hundreds of thousands of civilians, so be it. Thats what soldiers are there for. Protect the civilians.

But what American soldiers think is Protect Your Own Ass. The strive for independence never ends.......

[Edited on 9-8-2003 by chebob]

Originally posted by Hyperspace

Originally posted by johnb

Originally posted by Attero Auctorita
We are the United States of America!We have been appointed by God's divine message to scour the earth and clense it of those who are impure!

Better nuke yourselves then

UK first.

This what i like.. Somebody with a brain..

FreeMason: "Jakomo, you and Chebob and others, all seem to ignore the fact that if the Japanese Civilians were "good" they'd have stopped the war."

Hey, I didn't realize the Emperor of Japan was heading a democracy back in 1945. If they didn't want to get vaporized, they should have risen up against their oppressive government, the lazy slackers.

When you say "if the Japanese Civilians were "good" they'd have stopped the war", are you implying that Japanese civilians are "bad" or that they were in 1945? Please explain.


Jakomo

Jakomo, you obviously know nothing about WW2, because the Emperor wasn't heading anything, he was a figure head, completely out of the loop.

The Military Generals were running the show, and if the People didn't want to fight a war, the Generals would have no Army to run.

In Germany '45, by then most Germans wanted the war to end.

Entire companies were surrendering at the sign of a soldier, 100 Germans surrendered to my Grandfather in the midde of a forest in while he was behind enemy lines, he had to lead them back to the American front.

The German people had spoken, they wanted the war to end, and while the war would go until about May 8th, the Germans were already no longer fighting it, just the remainders of Waffen SS that could keep troops in line were putting up any resistance mostly in Berlin and a few other strongholds.

The Japanese citizens however, were not done fighting, they wanted War, they were ready for it, they would have all taken up sticks and stones to throw at us as we came on shore.

You are completely ignorant of WW2.

And FreeMason was there in the middle of Japan listening to the Japanese civilians talking about the evil Americans etc.
FreeMason, stop speculating about what MIGHT have happened and what the civilians MAY have been thinking.

contrary to your belief, everything that comes out of your mouth is not automatically assumed as "History". It's YOUR perspective of it, and nothing more. Why you keep going on about Nazis is anyones guess, but the Women and children who died in the Nuclear bombing were NOT going to rip up the US army and cause millions of deaths, accept it.

And to answer your further question Jakomo, I think Japs today are awesome...I envy their honorable society, however brutal it may have been in '45.

However I can argue through history that the Japanese Civilians were "bad" in the terms of good = person who will not fight a war that is ruining innocent lives and bad = a person who will fight a war even if they are wrong.

While the war against the Japs civilians was not justified as bringing them to justice for the crimes of what their soldiers were doing.

It is justified that they were supporting those soldiers nearly 100%...and you'd be hard pressed to find any Japanese in Hiroshima or Nagasaki in 1945 that was not fully supporting the war effort.

Herd mentality rules and at that time everyone made sure everyone else was all for the fight.

To waste one more American on their soil than was necessary would have been a tragedy, and to waste more Japanese lives in taking the mainland, would have destroyed not only Japan, but the people.

There would be no Japan today, they would be a third world nation, their infrastructure blown to peices, their people few.

You are kidding yourself if you think that the Japanese would have surrendered when we were on their soil.

When Japan surrendered without US troops on the soil, frustrated Japanese cried and killed themselves.

If they could have they would have killed us, never surrendering. They'd rather have died.

These two measily bombs saved what little Japan had left.

And it gave them the ability to surrender with Dignity, which is something a Japanese at the time would find hard to comprehend. However in the face of true defeat, due to the Bomb, they could surrender knowing that the future was certain, and that their lives were forfiet if they did not.

No Japanese could have surrendered with honor without the Atomic Bomb, knowing that maybe, just maybe if they gave more lives, and sacrificed themselves more vigorously, they could keep the Emperor as the supposed Head of their Government, and keep something they could call their Empire.

It is so retarded that we have to sit and listen to an idiot like Chebob who doesn't know anything about Japanese Culture.

Honor is everything, life is nothing.

Every man woman and child so long as they could sacrifice themselves with hopes of killing an invading soldier, would have gladly done so for the sake of their Family.

Nothing was worse than dishonor, and what is more dishonorable than allowing enemy forces to occupy your land, when you can fight them off.

The atomic bomb showed them that they could not fight us off...giving them an Honorable way to surrender even for the most stalwarts soldier.

Freemason, just a subsidiary question .. are you serious while posting or do you go off in giggles reading your own imbecility ?

Depends, in this case it is serious. Why do you object you Spaniard?

What do you know of other cultures, you only killed off some of the world's most exotic, the Meso-Americans...yeah...sit back and shut up. You have no right to judge us.

MR. Inquisition.