Is Alcoholics Anonymous a secret society?

Originally posted by Cug
Intrepid

Frankly that is the MOST offensive post I have ever read on the internet. You have no idea what I went thou, and in no way are you qualified to judge me. The next time you spend a day or weeks weeping over you inability to control yourself, then we can talk.

You want to frickin bet mate? I've been through more hell than you could ever cope with. Let's just say that I've been biten by everything with the exception of banging. I've gotten it down to a 6 pack a night over the last 25 frickin years. You want to talk about control? Could YOU have survived that? So don't tell me.

Be offended, I was at your glib posts. This wouldn't have gotten to this point if you hadn't made light of other people. Next time don't raise a straight when another is holding a full house.

Originally posted by intrepid

You want to frickin bet mate? I've been through more hell than you could ever cope with. Let's just say that I've been biten by everything with the exception of banging. I've gotten it down to a 6 pack a night over the last 25 frickin years. You want to talk about control? Could YOU have survived that? So don't tell me.

Be offended, I was at your glib posts. This wouldn't have gotten to this point if you hadn't made light of other people. Next time don't raise a straight when another is holding a full house.

Ok Fine the both sucked. But don't worry you can kick it all.

But you raised a question in my mind, when did make light of another person? are you talking about the angry quote? the one with a winky and a jk? Attacking AA as a program in no way attacks the people in it, or people with problems. AA should not be some untouchable holy organization that should not be questioned.

Man, reread my posts. I have NO time for AA, it didn't help me in the least. It helps others though. But to put people down because they don't live up to your ideal of willpower, that's just not going to cut it. I'm defending other addicts, not AA.

Originally posted by intrepid
Man, reread my posts. I have NO time for AA, it didn't help me in the least. It helps others though. But to put people down because they don't live up to your ideal of willpower, that's just not going to cut it. I'm defending other addicts, not AA.

Have I cut anybody down? Not that I know of. If you took something that I said that way I apoligize to you and everyone out there.

Originally posted by Cug

Originally posted by intrepid
Man, reread my posts. I have NO time for AA, it didn't help me in the least. It helps others though. But to put people down because they don't live up to your ideal of willpower, that's just not going to cut it. I'm defending other addicts, not AA.

Have I cut anybody down? Not that I know of. If you took something that I said that way I apoligize to you and everyone out there.

Thank you.

Now gives ones self a 1 liner. Oops. Not anymore.

Hey Intrepid can you stop flippin on people and stop with the sarcastic remarks? Ok so your a recovering alcoholic, along with 49 million other people in North America. And stop saying frickin were not in 8th grade anymore, or atleast I'm not

AA sucks. People who quit drinking with AA? 5%. People who quit drinking without AA? 5%.

In other words, if you want to stop drinking, you can! Intrepid wanted to stop drinking as much, and so he did. Don't let yourself be fooled, the douchbag telling you you are weak, to stupid to do anything on your own, is wrong! If you want to quit, you can quit, if you don't, then you don't. Sorry.. but I repeat

With AA=5%
Without AA=5%

So again, if you want to quit, then you will. If I wanted to stop drinking Mountain Dew, how would I do it? I WOULD STOP DRINKING IT! I don't want to, I love it, I am addicted to the caffine in it, and don't care. If I die at the age of 40 due to diabetes, well, the light that burns twice as bright burns half the time.

EDIT: AA is ran by a church, was created by the two christians, the AA headquarters building is called the BUilding of God, in the offices it has GOD everywhere, not Walnut Tree, not Pineapple, not rock, not budda, not allah, but GOD, and crosses, if you ever needed to know what a cross looks like, go to the AA HQ, every room, every hallway, everything has at least 1 cross in/on it.

Also, AA is a cult, the leader is right, you are nothing, you are to sell your soul to whoever they tell you to, and you are nothing more then a pawn. Just like the church, which is also a cult.

[edit on 3-6-2005 by James the Lesser]

Originally posted by BlissfullIgnorance
Hey Intrepid can you stop flippin on people and stop with the sarcastic remarks? Ok so your a recovering alcoholic, along with 49 million other people in North America. And stop saying frickin were not in 8th grade anymore, or atleast I'm not

So should I file this under WAAAHHHHHHH?

Your post did nothing to foward the conversation. You want to play? Fine, get with the topic. If not don't frickin post.

M'kay?

Originally posted by Cug

I'll use myself for an example. When I was in the Army I worked 24 hours on, 24 hours off, 24 hours stand-by (in case someone was sick etc.. but I never was called in) 24 hours off, 24 hours on duty, and so on. so one day on three days off. and on my days off for 2 1/2 years I was drunk off my butt, I was busted down in rank twice, and then given a general discharge. I even remember a time where a bottle of jack was spilled and I was sucking it out of the carpet. ICK!

I don't think anyone could say I didn't have a drinking problem then.

After I got out I said to myself I'd better cut that crap out, and I did. Frankly the last time I was drunk was years ago, now if I do have something to drink it's one or two and that's it, and that's only every what 6-8 months? I'd guess that's under average for a 37 year old male.

Seargant Foster, is that you??????????

You sound like half my old unit! I wasnt much different (tho I was never busted down, nor got any sort of administrative action, and had a normal ETS and Hon discharge). But cant remember spending an off duty moment sober.

Example: one year, when I was in Germany, we had quite a bit of snow. the snow hit on a Friday. The roads were closed, and the Class Six was on the other side of base. There were no buses or taxies running. And our barracks were dry........................................

There was no way in hell we were gonna get snowed in for a whole friggin weekend, trapped in the barracks without an ounce of alcohol. Since it was the day after payday, we had not restocked. We were all desperate, we had to come up with something...............so we broke into the lawn maintence shed. We ended up taking the riding mower, hitching the grass clipping cart to the back, and rode it to the other side of base to the Class Six and loading it with as much booze and beer as could be piled into it, securing it with 550 cord and cargo straps. Three such trips were made before the class six closed. Two other guys took their bicycles, one of which tied his sons toy wagon to the back and used that to haul hootch. A few others just took their rucksacks and dufflebags with. I took my rucksack and a parts dolly from motor pool to get my required bottle of ouzo, baileys,vodka, tequilla, and three racks of hefeweizen. We went non stop for the remaining 4 hours that the class six was closed, endless makeshift supply trains of booze streaming from the French Kaserne over to our area, The Bowl.

We even gave our heroic efforts a name: The Great Bitburg Beer Lift of '94.



Sorry, to get off track, your comments just brought back some memories. Dont feel bad, Ive done the carpet cleaning thing a time or two too.

Id have to agree with you about AA tho. Comming from a long line of alcoholics myself, I know from my relatives that AA is little more than a substitute for booze, not a cure, much like methadone is to heroin. AA is cultish, like a religon, and thus, just another drug.

I managed to kick my booze habit through sheer will and self punishment (returning to the states and being able to only afford budweiser pretty much killed my cravings). But I sure as hell didnt need no hinky support group, and I have a couple relatives who went to AA and ended up falling off the wagon again and again.

I think that while AA qualifies as a cult, it does not meet the secrecy requirements to be labeled a secret society. Their mission statement is pretty cut and dried, they don't skulk in the shadows.

As to the issue of addiction...

"In the private chambers of the soul, the guilty party is identified, and the accusing finger there is not legend, but consequence, not fantasy, but the truth. People pay for what they do, and still more, for what they have allowed themselves to become. And they pay for it simply: by the lives they lead."
- James Baldwin

We do the best we can, and we all, all suffer for our own failings. People think everyone's got it easier than them..but it doesn't work like that. Suffering is relative, it is unique to the individual. We all suffer in our own ways. The poor think the rich have a life without pain, the rich think the poor have wonderful, simple lives..but it just doesn't work like that.

My personal experiences with AA were depressing, more than anything, the dingy rooms, the bad coffee, the crappy folding chairs, the slouched mopes, all crammed together like some sort of cultural parfait. I went to several meetings a week with a former girlfriend who was trying to kick the habit, I went with my dad a few times, went by myself for school once (sociology), every time I felt uncomfortable and anxious to leave. Just wasn't my scene I guess. NA was similarly depressing, but for a different reason...

NA is the American equivalent of Canada's Dunkin' Donuts - a sure fire place to score drugs in an unfamiliar setting. I personally knew a drug dealer who did about 7k a week in business, solely due to his contacts within NA. That's a support structure for ya'...

Alot of good comments in here from all perspectives, but my only real problem is with court ordered attendence to AA meetings.

It's one of the "punishments" Judges are using increasingly in combination with jail, probation, mental health assessment, treatment, loss of driving license and steep fines for even a first DUI offense.

And it's not like you have a choice. You are given a sheet by a probabtion officer to have signed by verifiable officers at AA meetings that you must present every week or go to jail.

And to put it bluntly, alot of these AA meetings are run by snippy little power hungry Napoleans and all of them are run by crazy alcoholics!

If you aren't an alcoholic when you walk into your first state ordered AA meeting, by your 100th or so, you will be.

Having abused alcohol for many years, I have some experience with AA and frankly, I hate it. I don't like the way they want to commandeer your life and I think that many trade a dependence on alcohol with a dependence on AA.

However, the truth of the matter is that AA and it's twelve-step program works and has worked for millions of people who have problems with all sorts of drugs and even other problems.

Is it a secret society? Yes, if by secret you mean that anonymity is a an important part of the program. AA means Alcoholics Anonymous. However, in today's victim-sensitive society, the stigma attached to substance dependence is nowhere near what is was even thirty years ago, so it is not unusual for folks to proudly proclaim their participation in AA, while closely guarding the identity of others.

If you have a substance abuse problem and want social support, which is perhaps the most important element in treatment for most folks, give a twelve-step program a shot. If you're like me and the whole thing gives you the willies, get help elsewhere. AA is not the only game in town, but it may very well be the most cost-effective game in town.


[edit on 05/6/5 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by RANT
Alot of good comments in here from all perspectives, but my only real problem is with court ordered attendence to AA meetings.

In my experience with the courts, judges don't actually order twelve-step programs, but they do order treatment, which includes AA, NA, or some such. For a lot of people, when faced with court-ordered drug or alcohol treatment, a twelve-step program is far better than an in-patient program that interferes with one's job.

I do agree, though, that AA can drive one to drink. I often joke that the only thing that keeps me sober is the possibility of court-ordered AA meetings.

Oh, Jesus. Thanks for reminding me about the coffee.

ACtually in my experience the courts do order people to AA. It is common knowledge of "Getting your slip signed" byt the chair of the meeting so you can prove to your porbation officer that you were there.

There have been some court cases where someone sued courts in California stating that by being court ordered to attend a 12 Step meeting the court was promoting religion. The person one the court case...

But isn't Alcoholics Anonymous just a support group?

I find it hard to believe that a group that helps people get off the bottle is actually a "cult"

Aren't their methods just used to reinforce positive affirmation?

Originally posted by Majestic12
But isn't Alcoholics Anonymous just a support group?

I find it hard to believe that a group that helps people get off the bottle is actually a "cult"

Aren't their methods just used to reinforce positive affirmation?

You hit it on the money, good insight

Hell, if one is to class Alcoholics Anonymous as a secret cult, then you must do the same to ALL 12 Step groups, and there are a trukload of them - if there is anything addictive, there is a 12 Step group for it.

If AA is a cult, then a cult helped save my life, as I tried for years to kick my addictions, and could not until the Steps.

Misfit

It seems any group these days is regarded as secret and a threat to society.

What next? The Cub Scouts?

Originally posted by Majestic12
It seems any group these days is regarded as secret and a threat to society.

What next? The Cub Scouts?

Or Girl Guides, Civil Servants, Teamsters. Oops that last one is probably wrong.

AA A secret society??? Yeah right!