Originally posted by Kidfinger
Why do you think these people support the war without ever having been in one?

Hmm, ya know I really don't know the answer to that. It's just thier opinion and what they think.

I also think alot it might have to do with the AGE factor. You, EastCoastKid and a few others who served in the Gulf War part uno, and the ones from vietnam and other conflicts have probably had a few years to think it over and mature, see the light, change views (I cant think of a word to fit this, and actuallty im going against my own views here....weird)

With that said we on ATS have a huge gap in our war/combat vets, assuming we do not have vets from Kosovo and other not as publized conflicts that occured thruout the 90's. I have heard of any here on ATS so far.

The two big ones are the Gulf and OIF/OEF. a 10 year difference. I mean just compare the two....a 33-40 year old Gulf vet and a 18-25 year old OIF/OEF vet. And most of the population here on ATS is probably older than 30 which would mean more Gulf vets who have had more time to politcally think about things and think about life than our very small, not so popular crowd of OIF/OEF young men and women.

I hope that made sense and I hope it was on topic.

As far as myself, I served in OEF. Im not pro-war, Im not pro-bush (despite popular belief, sometimes I like to advocate bush for the sake of debate) but I am pro-Iraqi freedom. Was there better ways to handle it, yes. But I believe we are too far in the game to abandon them now.

And probably many other OIF/OEF Marines and soldiers, for the most part.....would have the same views as stated above. Like I said, I think this has to do with age, political stance and maturity.


[edit on 27/5/2005 by SportyMB]

[edit on 27/5/2005 by SportyMB]

KF,

I think it's great to see vets opposed to the war, and it's very refreshing to see around these boards especially. Particularly amongst all the tiring hate. It also tells the world that the whole of America is not like this. Which I already know because I have a lot of good American friends, but international people seeing US veterans in opposition to this will hopefully open their eyes to the fact that America has an abundance of genuinely compassionate people not only in the civilian sector but serving in the military also.



[edit on 27-5-2005 by cargo]

Originally posted by PepeLapiu1

Originally posted by cargo
But here we have Kidfinger and EastcoastKid, both Gulf War 1 Vets who are vehemently opposed to the current war in Iraq.

Say Kidfinger and EastcoastKid!

Over 67% of Gulf war vets who had children AFTER the war and after their exposure to DU got kids with physical deformations and several other health problems with their children.

Do you two have any experiences like that or do you have any friends who experienced these problems?

Please provide us with the source of this data.

Pepe, perhaps you can start another thread on DU and U2U Kidfinger to answer the question there. Let's try and keep this on topic.

Pyros, if you really want the source can you take it to U2U with Pepe?

No, I want someone who posted an inflammatory piece of data regarding a highly debatebly topic to back it up with actual facts. You know.....facts?

Remember.......Deny Ignorance?

Originally posted by Pyros

I do not beleive that the majority of combat veterans on this board are firmly against the war. I think this is partly because servicement feel an inherrent loyalty and brotherhood with other servicement, even ones they do not know, because they share commons bonds of duty and/or suffering. And because too many people in the public sector are quick to condemn the actions of these servicement, who are in the most despicable, inhospitable of places, where it is either kill or be killed, I think these same servicement reflexivley gravitate to the sive of pro-war, in order to support their mates.

Pyros, I have to admit, I was not expecting this much thought this soon into the discussion. This is a very good depiction of what might be causing the very problem this thread adresses.

If I had a WATS left, Id give it to you.

Originally posted by SportyMB
. Like I said, I think this has to do with age, political stance and maturity.

You could very well be correct in this assumption. You and pyros really have put out some good food for thought here. Keep it up

Pepe, please don't derail this thread.

[edit on 27-5-2005 by cargo]

Originally posted by Kidfinger
It has come to my attention that a large number of the people who support the war in Iraq and the global policies of Bush have not served during war time.

not true, I have two members of my family that served during wartimes, multiple in fact, that support the war. However, I will say this I have seen some vets pretty messed up, both physically and pyshologially, and yes it effects their kids in a bad way.

So for a quick recap, we have brought up age difference and servicemen comraderie as possible reasons for this view about the war. I would also like to ad to this that maybe some of the people who have claimed to have military service are just claiming this in order to lend some kind of credence to thier opinions. A possiblity. ATS offers an anomonimity for such claims.

Originally posted by Kidfinger

Originally posted by SportyMB
. Like I said, I think this has to do with age, political stance and maturity.

You could very well be correct in this assumption. You and pyros really have put out some good food for thought here. Keep it up

That comment was directed toward that 18-25 yeard old group (which would be me, im in my early 20's). As far as the older ATS'ers....I leave that discussion to the older ATS'ers.

I can only speak for my crowd when it comes to this.

Now don't get me wrong...Im not saying that those who approve of bush and war are not as mature or have a screwed up political stance....Im saying that with the age gap comes a maturity gap. And maybe a few years from many of our OIF/OEF men will have kids do other things and develope a different opinion about Iraq and War.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan

not true, I have two members of my family that served during wartimes, multiple in fact, that support the war. However, I will say this I have seen some vets pretty messed up, both physically and pyshologially, and yes it effects their kids in a bad way.

Well, the statement when taken out of context doeas appear untru, if you read the rest of the statment, you will see that I was referring to members of ATS.

The combat vetran is one of the most overlooked topics in American history. History tends not to be very kind to us. I had lost 22 friends by the time Desert Storm was over. 22.

Take into consideration that 18-19 are quick to join the army particualrly after seeing some well marketed recuitment campaign and repeated news coverage of terrorist attacks

I agree. Just for the record I Joined before 9/11

part of the brain that analyses risk does not fully form until the mid 20's

This makes sense.

Originally posted by cargo
Sporty, there is a theory going around at the moment that the part of the brain that analyses risk does not fully form until the mid 20's. This has been formulated by studies into why teenagers are involved in so many car accidents, other than just inexperience.

Nice find Cargo

I havent seen the actual scientific data gained from the study, but the article does a good job of laying it all out in simple terms.

[edit on 5/27/05 by Kidfinger]

well, anyone that read your story kidfinger would figure your just a kid with some political agenda.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
well, anyone that read your story kidfinger would figure your just a kid with some political agenda.

Well,that is just your opinion. I assure you, I am 33 years old. I served from feb 24, 1990 till aug 15 of 1994. I have a 6 year old daughter and I am a combat vetran. I cant make you believe one way or the other, but I give you my word that it is all true.

I think a lot of it comes down to your perspective as well. I am a veteran and I support this war.

I think that all war is horrible. It is. You see people acting at their very best and their very worst. You are trying to end another human's existence. You are destroying all of the promise that they had and their dreams. You are irrevocably damaging families. There is nothing beautiful or noble about it.

That being said... I now have to follow it up with the fact that an individual's life is short, even with natural causes. The world needs to be a better place for everyone and a price must be paid. I have friends who didn't come back in one way or another and it hurts like hell when I think about them. But then I think about the ideal that they died for.

We have to believe that the world can be a better place for everyone. Unfortunately, not everyone thinks that way. They are short sighted and selfish and cruel. They need to be taken out and a message needs to be sent that this is not acceptible in the new world order (I shudder to use those words but they are appropriate).

Iraq is a painful thing for everyone, Iraqi's and everyone else. But all birth is painful and bloody. It could be that this experiment in democracy fails miserably but it must be done.

Thank you.

In U2U kidfinger told me he had to go and attend to his daughter for a while. I doubt he would craft a lie so detailed as to slip things like that in. You are right to say that anyone could be lying. But sometimes you get to a stage where benefit of the doubt is given. Particularly with long time members.

Marid, that was very insightful and I appreciate you sharing it with us. I am not sure that Iraq had to be done, however. If Iraq had to be done, then I can think of plenty of other places where it had to be done first. But I'll leave it at that.

While Im enjoying this discussion, we still havn't really got to the crux of the issue which is why some of the more outspoken ATS members who openly warmonger on these boards so vehemently support the war without ever having served in a combat role. I'm sure it will get to that, but I'm going to have to head to bed soon, it's getting extremely late (even early) down here.


[edit on 27-5-2005 by cargo]

Originally posted by cargo
I'm sure it will get to that, but I'm going to have to head to bed soon, it's getting extremely late (even early) down here.

So much for the U2U I just sent ya Oh well.

This discussion is going very well in terms of cordiality and politness. Id like to thank you all and ask that we keep this up during our discussion. I would like to get to the bottom of this without any unnecessary rudeness.