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Military opinions and war experience

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posted on Jun, 13 2005 @ 08:07 AM
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Glad you could join us Misfit


That trailer.......When I saw Powell give his little presentation, well, any respect I had for the man just went out the _




posted on Jun, 13 2005 @ 08:48 AM
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Originally posted by Kidfinger
Glad you could join us Misfit


That trailer.......When I saw Powell give his little presentation, well, any respect I had for the man just went out the _


I completely agree.


I saw him last week on John Stewart's Daily Show. Unbelievably, he was STILL making claims FOR this administration!!! STILL carrying their water! I couldn't believe it.



posted on Jun, 14 2005 @ 07:47 PM
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Secrets of the Kingdom is in and I pick it up tomorrow ECK
Cant wait to dig into it



posted on Jun, 15 2005 @ 08:57 AM
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Originally posted by Kidfinger
Secrets of the Kingdom is in and I pick it up tomorrow ECK
Cant wait to dig into it




It's a great book.
You'll read it fast, too. It's like 190-something pages.. and very interesting. The best part of it is when Posner details the PETRO SE (scorched earth) plan. Once you understand it, you have to take two steps back and totally reconsider how we should deal with them.



posted on Jun, 15 2005 @ 11:55 AM
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Great thread guys; glad to see it has mostly been "civil" which is a shock for me to see such things on AboveTopSecret.com. I myself have never served, I turn 19 this summer and can just remember the last images of the first Gulf War although the stories I know from good friens of mine paint a picture which to me displays why they do not wish War to ever happen. One of my best friends is currently in the SAS and was hunting terrorists in Afganistan just after September the 11th. The stories from there are even more shocking; on a few occassions people used children as shields or would hide under their bodies since the troops tended to not want to distrub such things hunting them and those are the nice bits the worse stuff still had yet to be reported by mainsteam press and it sickens me to the stomach that such things happen in this day and age still.

You would think thousands of years on we would have worked out how to live side by side and sort things out without having to resort to bloodshed. But I guess we've yet to get to that level in our evolution? Which I do hope will one day come. In honesty, I don't think anyone can say they want war to exist in this world because no matter which side you're on you don't want it to happen nor want to kill someone.

I very good friend of mine who got back from Iraq just last month actually has changed, he is now a different man. He basically came back and had 6 confirmed kills and the stories again show me that war is an awful thing.

I guess I myself having being raised in a military family with both of my grand-parents serving in World War Two and one of them serving in Korea have had an odd sense of logic. My grandfather was actually involved in interrogation during Korea and admits that he had to torture people and gets rather angry when the Television and Media say this never happened although he can't go out and Publish a book or get Interviewed as doing this as he signed the right away.

But now I am still trying to work out if I should join, a large part of me wants to join the RAF Gunners (see here). I want to do my bit if that makes sense? But I am so against the way in which we are conducting these present wars that it worries me. But certain things people have said here helps me to re-enforce the idea that:

  1. You should only go to war if you think the cause is just or;
  2. If you're defending your Nations Security.



posted on Jun, 15 2005 @ 12:04 PM
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The thing about joining an all-voluntary military is that you cannot choose your wars. You either serve your masters willingly, 100%, or don't even think about it. When I was in I was your age Odium. I thought I knew a lot. I did at the time streetwise, but not regarding politics. That was a good thing, as I fully supported Reagan and Bush. I was 1000% for going to off Saddam. We were shocked when the war was called to an end. We were psyched and ready to roll into Baghdad. Kind of anti-climactic. We figured we should just go ahead and take him out - as did Schwartzkopf (at the time). But our leaders had other ideas.. 2 more phases of war (we smashed their army and infrastructure; sanctions; invasion.) I don't think any of us saw that long-term plan. At least not on the grunt level.



posted on Jun, 15 2005 @ 12:08 PM
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I have never in my life felt so proud and elated than I did when we liberated Kuwait. Then to come home to what seemed like some kind of surreal super stardom.. ticker tape parade down the streets of Manhattan.. phew... interviews on tv and radio.. parades in hometowns.. front page of the hometown newspaper, etc. etc.

It makes me feel terrible for our men and women serving in Iraq and Afghansitan now. They don't really have that same climactic/fantastic reception. They DESERVE IT, too!



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 08:19 AM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
It makes me feel terrible for our men and women serving in Iraq and Afghansitan now. They don't really have that same climactic/fantastic reception. They DESERVE IT, too!


Well that's the problem after Afganistan they were/are hero's, but instead of the Government sorting out Afganistan getting it back on its feet, destroying the drug trade which popped up and stabilising the Nation they moved onto Iraq and Afganistan is just going backwards now. It won't be long till the drug lords hold complete power like the last time and the Government don't seem to care.

It's a shame because of their actions that the people who are involved in fighting the War won't get the respect which they deserve from everyone: even if you don't agree with the war.



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 10:09 AM
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Yep. What is going on right now in Afghanistan with regard to the drug trade is not surprising. It was to be expected. Time for some folks to re-examine this administration's motives there.

We're doing such a bang up job there, that the drug trade is at an all-time high.
That is no accident.

[edit on 6/16/05 by EastCoastKid]



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by Odium


Well that's the problem after Afganistan they were/are hero's, but instead of the Government sorting out Afganistan getting it back on its feet, destroying the drug trade which popped up and stabilising the Nation they moved onto Iraq and Afganistan is just going backwards now. It won't be long till the drug lords hold complete power like the last time and the Government don't seem to care.

It's a shame because of their actions that the people who are involved in fighting the War won't get the respect which they deserve from everyone: even if you don't agree with the war.


Think you'll find you deposed the regime trying to end the drug supply. The drug warlords were your 'allies' - The Northern (Herion Production) Alliance I think you called them at the time! You sided with the devil on that one!

Agree with many on here, I served but luckily not in combat. With so much lethality & technology involved in modern war it should only ever be started as an absolute last resort.

Not for short-term political gain.

I find it interesting those who are so gung-ho about putting young people in harm's way (Shrub, Bliar) never get themselves or their families involved at the sharp end!

Not sure about Rumsfeld - he looks like a REMF though!



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by CTID56092
I find it interesting those who are so gung-ho about putting young people in harm's way (Shrub, Bliar) never get themselves or their families involved at the sharp end!


They're not called elites fer nuthin'!



Not sure about Rumsfeld - he looks like a REMF though!


Donald Rumsfeld is the only other high-level administration official (besides Colin Powell) to ever wear a uniform. He was a Naval pilot. He never saw combat. So, he's about as clueless as his cowardly cowboy NeoCons.



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 11:24 AM
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Re Rumsfeld - 'Pilot' as in flies a plane with real weapons? Or 'pilot' as in sneaking off to snort coke and develop an alcohol problem while your mates are dying over the jungle?

Didn't dubya wear his uniform at least twice? Sure I've seen two different photos of his day in the airforce?



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 11:31 AM
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Originally posted by CTID56092
Re Rumsfeld - 'Pilot' as in flies a plane with real weapons? Or 'pilot' as in sneaking off to snort coke and develop an alcohol problem while your mates are dying over the jungle?


At one point he was a test pilot. No ordinance for him. He probly likes his scotch, too.


Didn't dubya wear his uniform at least twice? Sure I've seen two different photos of his day in the airforce?


Well.. to be fair, he probly had to wear his flight suit quite a bit. He was indeed on flight status for a little while - till they determined he needed to be scaled down.


[edit on 6/16/05 by EastCoastKid]



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 11:25 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKidIt makes me feel terrible for our men and women serving in Iraq and Afghansitan now. They don't really have that same climactic/fantastic reception. They DESERVE IT, too!


Well to be honest, back in that day we didn't have the American Public (or at least some of them) degrading the Administration at every move like we do now with the Bush haters.

These guys and gals now deserve the parades MORE than Gulf War 1 as its a much rougher ballgame.






Originally posted by CTID56092Think you'll find you deposed the regime trying to end the drug supply. The drug warlords were your 'allies' - The Northern (Herion Production) Alliance I think you called them at the time! You sided with the devil on that one!


I think you will fing that Al Qaeda also supported the drug trade and that would include the Taliban, the only stomped out the independents.




Originally posted by EastCoastKid He was a Naval pilot. He never saw combat. So, he's about as clueless as his cowardly cowboy NeoCons.



That # should STOP in this thread. Take it elsewhere. Some people think they know everything and really hate the man, but if you only knew the whole story.....




Originally posted by CTID56092Re Rumsfeld - 'Pilot' as in flies a plane with real weapons? Or 'pilot' as in sneaking off to snort coke and develop an alcohol problem while your mates are dying over the jungle?

Didn't dubya wear his uniform at least twice? Sure I've seen two different photos of his day in the airforce?


Funny how the Tulipwalkers can 'stereotype' people so easily. Remember the Bush is an idiot deal? And yet he had higher grades than Kerry we now find out.......Really this is not the thread for this....so I will refrain, but you can damn well bet I have something to say.



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 02:34 AM
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Not just people who haven't been a war, but why would anyone support this war? When I was in Iraq, I served with the Army, and just about everyone (not every single person, tho) agreed 100% whole-heartedly that we were over there for the right reasons.
In the beginning, I'll admit Bush had me fooled, but i quickly sang a different tune. There was just no evidence to support us unvading that country. And what really pissed me off was Bush changing his story of why we were over there when there was no evidence. Misleading the country is unforgivable in my eyes.
But, now that we are over there we need to finish the job. There are many innocent Iraqis that will suffer if we just pull out. I don't like the Vietnam comparison, but look what happened. We bit off more than we could chew, 50K+ Americans died and we just ended up pulling out anyway.
The insurgents are the brightest bunch, but they are forever adapting. This alone makes them a formidable adversary.
I forgot where I was going with this, but it is my say.



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by yinyang04011
Not just people who haven't been a war, but why would anyone support this war? When I was in Iraq, I served with the Army, and just about everyone (not every single person, tho) agreed 100% whole-heartedly that we were over there for the right reasons.
In the beginning, I'll admit Bush had me fooled, but i quickly sang a different tune. There was just no evidence to support us unvading that country. And what really pissed me off was Bush changing his story of why we were over there when there was no evidence. Misleading the country is unforgivable in my eyes.
But, now that we are over there we need to finish the job. There are many innocent Iraqis that will suffer if we just pull out. I don't like the Vietnam comparison, but look what happened. We bit off more than we could chew, 50K+ Americans died and we just ended up pulling out anyway.
The insurgents are the brightest bunch, but they are forever adapting. This alone makes them a formidable adversary.
I forgot where I was going with this, but it is my say.


Well-said sir!

Shame so many US / UK / Iraqi citizens had to die to re-learn an obvious lesson. Glad you came bck safe (I'm assuming...)

Leaders (particularly US Presidents) lying to start unjustified wars is nothing new - almost SOP! Why are we EVER surprised?



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 12:54 PM
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People, it has been a privlige to start a thread where the civility is unmatched. I just want to reitterate that this thread is an attempt at delving into the mind of service members and should be done so in a curtious manner. We can discuss anything without offence to our fellow members. I think even Bush bashing, which I am quite fond of, should be religated to another thread.



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 01:30 PM
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Bush bashing occurs, when people have no grasp of the truth or facts:

Received his Masters Degree in Business Administration in 1975.

Bush was hailed by his Air Force commanders as one of their top 5 fighter pilots.

Bush flew the F102, one of the more difficult fighters to fly.

Bush served in the Air National Guard, as did hundreds of thousands of others during the Vietnam conflict. Are all those other thousands of airmen also cowards for not going to Vietnam? What about the millions that served all over the world during the same time, are they also cowards because they got stationed in Germany, or England, or Greenland, or Iowa? We've seen GW's military records, including his DD-214 (and the proven lies put forth by Dan Rather).........where is John Kerry's complete records?

Did I mention, the United States of America has elected him twice to lead the country? Apparantly, the majority of Americans find him quite worthy.

Seems like a rather commendable record for a "coward" and an "idiot".

I just returned from Iraq last March, after 15 months in-country (OIF-2). I fully understand what and why we are fighting for, and am ready to do it again. I am honored, and damned proud, to have GW Bush as my commander.



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by Army
Did I mention, the United States of America has elected him twice to lead the country? Apparantly, the majority of Americans find him quite worthy.


1.) You will not post any material that is knowingly false, misleading, or inaccurate.

2000 PRESIDENTIAL POPULAR VOTE SUMMARY

Bush did not win the majority vote during the 2000 election, he lost the majority vote. So the "majority" did not in 2000.
Al Gore (Democrat) 50,999,897 - 48.38%
George W. Bush (Republican) 50,456,002 - 47.87%



[edit on 17-6-2005 by Odium]



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 01:49 PM
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Originally posted by Odium
Bush did not win the majority vote during the 2000 election, he lost the majority vote. So the "majority" did not in 2000.
Al Gore (Democrat) 50,999,897 - 48.38%
George W. Bush (Republican) 50,456,002 - 47.87%



i think hes talking about the other election ----->2004.





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