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Military opinions and war experience

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posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by Kidfinger
Do we not also join in combat operations alongside our other military counterparts? My entire time in the gulf was NOT spent on the ship.


Oh yes.. we all played our part. Was it not the most incredible joint op we've just about ever seen? Not just inter-services, but international. I still get chills when I think of the combined power employed. Forget your video games, man. It was a sight to behold. Of the likes and scale I probably will never see again..

To EVERY last man and woman involved, by air, land or sea, I salute you!




posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 01:26 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Was it not the most incredible joint op we've just about ever seen? Not just inter-services, but international.



There is no comparison of the tacticians of that war and the tacticians in the new Iraq war. The first war was utter brilliance and Stormin Norman restored the faith of America kicking major ass
Then we had this new war come along and make fools out of the strategist who planned it.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 01:35 PM
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EastCoast gnashes teeth...

Oh don't get me started on the planning of this fiasco! NO REFLECTION on our MEN and WOMEN serving innit, btw. They have served REMARKABLY.
I honestly don't think any of our soldiers since WW2 have been asked to shoulder such a mammoth burden as these people now serving. They deserve the highest praise.

Those in charge of planning this clusterf** - especially after what we learned in the Gulf War, should be in the docks!
IN THE DOCKS. Every aspect has been utter foolishness, incompetence and idiocy. So many people have died and been maimed b/c the civilians chose not to listen to those military leaders who actually had REAL experience fighting and diplomating in the mideast. Those folks were drummed out or marginalized to the point of absurdity.


Had we listened to them, and heded their warnings, things would be vastly different in Iraq right now. VASTLY. Piss poor planning = CHAOS.

How I long for a Stormin Normin in all this.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by Kidfinger
It has come to my attention that a large number of the people who support the war in Iraq and the global policies of Bush have not served during war time. Of course I am strictly referring to members of ATS.


I'm a Gulf War I veteran myself. I feel like such an old-timer since my experience goes back all the way to 1990 when I joined the USAF. I could have told you that the second attack phase would come eventually. Deployments to the Middle East were becoming more and more frequent even after the cease-fire. In case everyone forgot, Desert Storm ended with a cease fire agreement. the current phase is just a continuation of the last one.

I didn't vote for Bush Sr. to be re-elected, but did vote for George W. Bush in both elections. The alternative is frightening. If the democratic party would come up with another plan besides crippling the military they would get more votes from people like us. People that have served in the military. I shudder at the thought of handing over control of things to the U.N.

I think that President Bush is acting in what he feels is the best route for the US. While I do dislike some of his policies, his continued support of our military is a good thing. I'd rather fight the enemy on their soil than ours.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by dbates
I think that President Bush is acting in what he feels is the best route for the US. While I do dislike some of his policies, his continued support of our military is a good thing. I'd rather fight the enemy on their soil than ours.


The problem is two-fold. Bush isn't getting the information he truly needs to understand what's really happening. His advisors are 1000% WAR. It doesn't matter what's right and good for our nation and our troops. So, he's getting a lot of smoke blown up his butt.

Secondly, he is not actually supporting our troops (the way in which we all believed he would). It's all lipservice.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by dbates


I didn't vote for Bush Sr. to be re-elected, but did vote for George W. Bush in both elections. The alternative is frightening. If the democratic party would come up with another plan besides crippling the military they would get more votes from people like us.


Untill a few days ago, I might havee agreed that the Dems were more detrimental to military fall than Reps. However, with the announced base closings to the tune of 50 billion dollars, and using the same excuse for it that was used during the Clinton years, I believe that we are witnissing what could be the beginnings of a one party system masquarading as a two party system. It has been obvious to some for a while now. Thomas Crown could give a much better appraisal of the situation than I.


BTW, glad you could stop in dbates


[edit on 6/12/05 by Kidfinger]



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 03:21 PM
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Well of course you had some SEALS, who is going to protect the Marines???



Somone's going for the low blows....it's all good.

My
Arse
Rides
In
Navy
Equipment

The only thing you'll hear us say when calling on the Navy for assistance is
CORPSMAN UP!!!

Joking...



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 03:30 PM
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Originally posted by SportyMB


The only thing you'll hear us say when calling on the Navy for assistance is
CORPSMAN UP!!!


As a former Marine, you do know that you were part of the Naval Branch and at one time an E3 in the Navy held more rank than an E6 in the marines?




Joking...



Me to



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 03:33 PM
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Originally posted by Kidfinger

Originally posted by SportyMB


The only thing you'll hear us say when calling on the Navy for assistance is
CORPSMAN UP!!!


As a former Marine, you do know that you were part of the Naval Branch and at one time an E3 in the Navy held more rank than an E6 in the marines?




Joking...



Me to


AIRBORNE RULES! So PISS OFF!

j/k.. just hadta jump in.


EastCoast dives into hasty fighting position..



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 03:43 PM
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As a former Marine, you do know that you were part of the Naval Branch and at one time an E3 in the Navy held more rank than an E6 in the marines?

That was back in the day, way back. On Nov 10th 1775 the MC was formed and did "fall under the Navy" at that time. But later on it became a branch equel to the USN that falls under the Dept of the Navy....not the Navy. There is a difference.

As far as the rank thing these days....an E3 is an E3...no matter what branch. However an E4 in the MC and in the Navy are NCO's, unlike other branches...where I believe it starts at E5....correct me if Im wrong
But that's an entire other topic...

PS: Im not a former Marine....Im still on AD.


[edit on 12/6/2005 by SportyMB]



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 03:44 PM
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I thought one of the main points of a site such as this is to share opinions, liked or not liked. I am sorry that the enlistment age is so young but I didn't make the rules. I also doubt that seeing the horrors of any war are handled well at any age. Opinions on what a country that you live in does or does not do is always up to public debate and there will always be opposition. The bottom line is learning to discuss topics without getting too out of hand, a little spice is fun but out right flaming is just not needed.

War is a part of life and is not going away, sorry you had to see so much and yes, I have not seen any and am not in the military at all. Does that mean I don't have a right to vote or a right to discussion? If you didn't want to see the horrors of war, then you should not have enlisted. To date we do not yet have a draft in effect in the US (not saying it won't happen) thus you chose the miltary and with that comes some really bad things. But with that I think you probably joined to serve your country and fight for freedom, at least I hope that was your reason, I suspect for many it was not. Good luck to you with your nightmares.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 03:46 PM
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I can only speak for the Army. In the Army E-4's are junior enlisteds. The rank of Corporal (E-4) is greater than that of a Specialist b/c they have to go through PLDC (Primary Leadership & Development Course) to get their hardstripes. E-5 and up are Non Commissioned Officers.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by Memorialday1999
I thought one of the main points of a site such as this is to share opinions, liked or not liked.


It is. As well as this thread. We are willing to discuss anything that might pertain to the original post no matter what the subject may be.



I am sorry that the enlistment age is so young but I didn't make the rules.


I dont think Im following you here. Did someone say something about an age limit and offend you in some way?




I also doubt that seeing the horrors of any war are handled well at any age.


Very true. However, you can become sesinsitized to the environment of war. After repeated exposure, the shock tends to lessen.



Opinions on what a country that you live in does or does not do is always up to public debate and there will always be opposition. The bottom line is learning to discuss topics without getting too out of hand, a little spice is fun but out right flaming is just not needed.


No one is flaming you.



War is a part of life and is not going away, sorry you had to see so much and yes, I have not seen any and am not in the military at all.


Agian with the apologies about not being in or old enough to serve. Could you elaborate on why you feel an apology was required?



Does that mean I don't have a right to vote or a right to discussion?


Of course you have the right to discuss anything you like, as well as vote for whomever is on the ballot. Many of us joined to ensure you have those rights.



If you didn't want to see the horrors of war, then you should not have enlisted.


Look, when I joined, the horrors of war were the last thing on my mind. I was 17 when I signed my papers. I was brought up in a middle class home in suberbia and the closest I ever got to horrid violence was fighting the school yard bully avery once and a while. Yes it was a huge shock to see some of the things I hae seen and to have lived some the experiences I lived. The fact is, no matter who you are, if its your first time, you will be scared. You will be shocked. But you will do your job and you will perform it with 110% effeciency and you will get the job done. So please dont give me the excuse you gave above. It just doesnt cut it.




To date we do not yet have a draft in effect in the US (not saying it won't happen) thus you chose the miltary and with that comes some really bad things. But with that I think you probably joined to serve your country and fight for freedom, at least I hope that was your reason, I suspect for many it was not.


You would be correct in saying that many join for other reasons than to serve their country. The main reason being is college tuition.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 05:33 PM
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When you're a hotheaded kid and you join, (at least during the Cold War) the last thing on your mind is that you will go to war. I know that sounds crazy, but back then it was true. YOu join for a lot of reasons.. not just one or two. YOu all know my story (Memorial you should read this whole thread, its one of THEE best on this site. EVER). It just so happened that I, and Kidfinger and many others DID get called up to go to war. For me, it was the best damn political science class I ever had. No edumacating has ever spoken to me more. Even tho I was opposed to this war, I am in NO way opposed to our military/those who serve. It is b/c of my support of them that it is my mission to ensure we use them as wisely as possible. Those of us who came before them MUST speak on their behalf.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 07:28 PM
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Originally posted by Kidfinger

Originally posted by Darth Griff


On a boat huh? Well i'll tell you, it can't have been that bad for you when you compare yourself to those who went through the breech in the sand. Oh, a thank you to the big red one.


I said I was attached to the Tarawa. Whats up with all the attitude? Is the NAVY not made up of sea, land and air forces? Do we not also join in combat operations alongside our other military counterparts? My entire time in the gulf was NOT spent on the ship. Please take the attitude and reread some of my post on this page and then others. You may begin to realize that I may have just done something over there.



Now please. If you have somthing to add to this discussion besides beratement and basically calling someone a liar, then by all means, post your opinions. Otherwise I and the rest of the posters on this thread would appreciate it if you posted elswhere. Thanks. bubye now.


Hello, never called or implied you were a liar. Not giving attitude, when i do, you'll know it. Just interested where the whole "ive seen things that'd make a billy goat puke" type speach was coming from, and now i know. I am proud of all the forces regardless of where they served during DStorm, including you. And considering my background, and current circumstances i have alot to offer this thread and others. But in order to make informed statements i need info on you and your experience. Try not to be so aggressive in your defence, i asked for facts, not a hissy fit. And if my reply came accross as short, i apologise, it wasn't meant to offend.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 08:15 PM
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Originally posted by Darth Griff
But in order to make informed statements i need info on you and your experience. Try not to be so aggressive in your defence, i asked for facts, not a hissy fit. And if my reply came accross as short, i apologise, it wasn't meant to offend.


Yes, your reply did come across as sarcastic. Apology accepted.

In order to make informed statements about the nature of this thread, it would be in ones best intrest to read the whole thread before posting opinions.

I look forward to you contribution to the thread



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 11:26 PM
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I am in shock!

15 pages and still civil.......maybe its the ' Drill Sargent " in all of us



3 Cheers for the Troops!



posted on Jun, 13 2005 @ 01:54 AM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid

Originally posted by Kidfinger
Do we not also join in combat operations alongside our other military counterparts? My entire time in the gulf was NOT spent on the ship.


Oh yes.. we all played our part. Was it not the most incredible joint op we've just about ever seen? Not just inter-services, but international. I still get chills when I think of the combined power employed. Forget your video games, man. It was a sight to behold. Of the likes and scale I probably will never see again..

To EVERY last man and woman involved, by air, land or sea, I salute you!


It was amazing, war on that scale, invasion, is just awesome. For me, the best part was entering Iraq in a 26 lane convoy, each one stretching as far as the eye could see. The worst part, was watching an A10 destroy the lead vehicle in my lane, which was lane Mike, in the middle. Blue on blue in the middle lane of 26, headed INTO Iraq, with bright orange stickers on our roofs to stop blue on blue. Crap pilot. I was a few hundred meters back from the lead vehicle, and thought the A10 had hit an enemy vehicle, until our covoy stopped and the word came back, then we had to drive past the vehicle. It was one bad day.



posted on Jun, 13 2005 @ 07:27 AM
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Are you talking about being involved in the Iraq invasion or the Gulf War? Sorry. Not clear.



posted on Jun, 13 2005 @ 08:03 AM
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Originally posted by Kidfinger
The people who have served in the military but have not seen a single bit of action seem to support Bush and his plans with blind abandonment.


This is the only statetment that lends credence to my submission of thought to this thread.

Although I am not a combat Veteran, I do suffer massive medical issues related to a field training exercise.

I emphatically, adamantly, whole-heartedly, all the other "ly's" you want to add to, disagree with this Iraq atrocity I mean war. This war against terrorism was supposedly waged primarily against Bin Laden and Co. Yet, he had what to do with Suddam and Co?

I see so many statemtent on here BLAMING THE SOLDIER for this god-damn war, but, jeezuz hell people, you REALLY think those soldiers started this war? No, they do what they are told. Thats what they, as I, as Kidfinger, asa countless others were were trained to do. Honestly, I am quite suprised, being aware of the angst from so many millions against the war and ALL to do with it (referring to the "soldier hate") that we do not have another 'Nam experience when they come home. Ya, the war sucks, this one is wrong, so throw rotten food at the soldier ....... jeez, the mentality of so many humans is the basis of my sig here and elsewhere.

Anyway, ranting aside. I just don't believe, nither now nor pre-war, that this one is/was right. My gut said there were no WMD's there .... my gut was right again. If they were there (as if they "never" were, this IS Saddam after all), that lends NO credence whatsoever to the invasion. Bush/Co told America and the world that they had PROOF that WMD's are there. Yet, nothing, not one damn thing (don't go into that damn propoganda crap with the trailer bit thing ....... ugh).

Hence, my thought is this war, coming from a non-combat Veteran, was wrong, we should not be there.

BTW - when's the last time you heard from this Americano government about Bin Laden? Who? You know, that guy this whole damn "war against terrorism" is based upon, the guy your prez said he'd hunt down and claim - dead or alive!

"War against terrorism".......... gawd, the mentality of such a thought - people you can't see, don't know where are, don't wear uniforms, spread miles and miles beteween each other. Oh oh oh, I know, nuke the world and let god sort them out? Ya, ya, that's it, nuke the world - no more terrorism, the current admin can say "we told you we'd get them".

Misfit




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