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NEWS: Doctors call for long pointed kitchen knives to be banned in UK.

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posted on May, 29 2005 @ 09:23 AM
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Originally posted by SportyMB
DW..as can can clearly read I do say,

I was not implying that the goverment is directly responsible, I am saying that the government has the obligation and responsibity to ensure the safety of it's citizens while ensureing thier rights at the same time.....and yes in a way the Gov't is responsible and to blame.

If it is the governments fault then the government had that responsiblity.
The government is working hard to stop crime but it is difficult, if you wish the government to stop crime I have one way to stop ALL crime.....want me to share it with you?



Don't pull that crap on me boy, yeah people that committ murder may get Life in prison. But people who hold people up and commit violent acts using knives do not get that...they get jail time, even in the UK.
That's a whole other issue though.

Its not crap, they get jail time and a substantial fine AND on the list of people the police will check on....tell me what would be better?
Executions?
Hangings?
Bring back the good old firing squad?



NO it is not...it's the governments fault that these repeat offenders are let back on the streets.

You'll find that you cant keep people locked up in a prison for thier lives so the next logical step is to remove the weapon of choice.



I blame the people too, but I don't blame the knife.
Again I will go back to stupid analogies.....If I get a baseball bat and beat someone up...is it the bat's fault...no, it is my fault......and If I am a reapeat offender then it is the governments fault for letting me back on the streets.

Really?
So we should just lock em up and throw away the key?
I'm sorry but its more complicated than that.

[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]

[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]




posted on May, 30 2005 @ 12:48 AM
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DW,

I feel you have a strong desire to keep people safe. That's a good thing to want. I understand.

But at the same time would you want, say, your transportation to be taken away because murderers were using cars to run over their victims? Do you see what I am talking about?

And I use long knives to cut watermelon as one example for its use. In fact, I sliced a large watermelon yesterday and today. And some people buy large cuts of meat and cut it themselves and store it in the freezer. Buying in bulk saves money. It can certainly be a dangerous weapon, I agree. But a law taking away long pointy knives is irrational. Knives are sharp for sure, but they have to be that way to perform their task.

A murderer will find a way if he really wants to kill somebody. This is one of many weapons he could possibly use depending on the situation.

Troy



posted on May, 30 2005 @ 01:18 AM
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does anyone remember a reading in the news that a wedge of parmesan was used to stab someone to death?
i searched the web, but couldn't find anything. it WAS in the papers, though.
only soft unripened cheeses will be tolerated in the NWO.

[edit on 30-5-2005 by billybob]



posted on May, 30 2005 @ 01:35 AM
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Something just went through my mind, when you mentioned the cheese and the NWO.

You know, if all of our "weapons" were taken, the NWO wouldn't have to worry about being attacked and take over would be easier.

It's just a thought, I'm not even sure any such thing as an NWO is truly coming into power, but I am witnessing some odd stuff.

Troy



posted on May, 30 2005 @ 01:50 AM
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Illogical Progression


Originally posted by cybertroy
Something just went through my mind, when you mentioned the cheese and the NWO.

"First you get the cheese, then you get the money, then you get the power."

Don't say I didn't warn you.



posted on May, 30 2005 @ 03:46 AM
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DW, you are simply a fool trying to defend what is indefensible.

Example of the fallacy of your 'logic':
Fat people are unhealthy and that's an 'unsafe' condition for them. What's next on your list of government bans, the fork and spoon?

Get it? It wasn't the fork and spoon that made the people fat, it was their desire to overeat!


So it is with knives and guns.

This concept is really so simple that it is laughable that you can't understand it, devilwasp, et al.



posted on May, 30 2005 @ 03:55 AM
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DW
First off, if you want to deal with the NED problem, banning utensils is probably far shy of effective compared to..oh..I dunno..AN EDUCATION! That would pretty much sink the lovely colloquialism now wouldn't it? Educate the sods in proper manners and mutual respect, through the parents and the schools. Murder pop culture and let's pretend we know how to be civilized. The problem didn't start with kitchen knives, which means you can't end the problem by ending kitchen knives, follow?

Take away a NED's kitchen knife, and he'll use a screwdriver to ventilate your lung instead, I'd bet money on it.

This isn't about NEDs, this is about principles. I'm not going to hack half a tuna into putty using a rubber spatula, because some magistrate thinks I'm unqualified to wield a blade, I just won't submit to that sort of disrespect. Go ahead and let others tell you what you can or can't do, just don't try and legislate this sort of thing without expecting a fight from those who

And don't confuse my tolerance for happiness. Saying murder makes me happy is inferring a serious psychosis, and that's simply not the case.

What makes me happy is sticking to my principles of personal responsibility.



posted on May, 30 2005 @ 03:59 AM
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I don't see the issue here. As people we constantly make changes in design to make things safer. Just look at cars for instance.

So if a knife is rounded of at the end but still serves its purpose, whats the problem?



posted on May, 30 2005 @ 04:06 AM
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Kriz
My needs wouldn't be met with a dull point. Fish knives have a point for a reason..it's not just a design flaw that's been overlooked for millenia...

There are stubby rounded knives too, and they serve their purpose.

Bottom line, you know what they say, "The right tool for the right job."



posted on May, 30 2005 @ 09:57 AM
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I've about come to the conclusion that DevilWasp is just yanking chains. He's arguing in circles, and his logic is simple and flawed for the real world.



posted on May, 31 2005 @ 01:02 AM
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Kriz_4,

I see where you are coming from. Design flaws are worked out of some items, but it may not apply in this situation. I believe the point is usefull in the right situations.

Also, this was called for by a doctor, regarding murder and suicide. Life would be terrible if we "bubble wrapped" everything, and banned everything that might be dangerous. We would soon grow tired of the excessive rules.

We made bike ramps when we were kids. Yeah, we could have broken bones or other such stuff. But that is the way life is, it would be hard to remove "all" of the possible danger, and not remove "life" itself.

Troy



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 12:23 PM
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Originally posted by cybertroy
DW,

I feel you have a strong desire to keep people safe. That's a good thing to want. I understand.

But at the same time would you want, say, your transportation to be taken away because murderers were using cars to run over their victims? Do you see what I am talking about?

Tell me, does an average man or women use a knife half the size of his or her's arm every day to cook thier meals?
Chefs do, but not everyone is a chef.



And I use long knives to cut watermelon as one example for its use. In fact, I sliced a large watermelon yesterday and today. And some people buy large cuts of meat and cut it themselves and store it in the freezer. Buying in bulk saves money. It can certainly be a dangerous weapon, I agree. But a law taking away long pointy knives is irrational. Knives are sharp for sure, but they have to be that way to perform their task.

How long is your knife?
Almost a foot long?


A murderer will find a way if he really wants to kill somebody. This is one of many weapons he could possibly use depending on the situation.

"Anything can be a weapon if you swing it right."
But frankly knifes are to a big killer to be just a "co-incidence" weapon.



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by centurion1211
DW, you are simply a fool trying to defend what is indefensible.

Nothing is undefendible, you just need to alter your tactics, strategies and logistics.


Example of the fallacy of your 'logic':
Fat people are unhealthy and that's an 'unsafe' condition for them. What's next on your list of government bans, the fork and spoon?

Actually its not faulty.
Also if you knew what they put in your food you might change what you eat.
BTW, that is a "extracting the urine " statement please dont spoil this board with anymore comments like that.


Get it? It wasn't the fork and spoon that made the people fat, it was their desire to overeat!


Right and every person that was murderered by a knife wanted to die?


So it is with knives and guns.

Really?
Do you use a gun everyday?
Do you use a gun as much as a knife?


This concept is really so simple that it is laughable that you can't understand it, devilwasp, et al.

Oh I understand your opinion and your position on this, I simply disagree with it.
Oh and BTW, just as a little piece of advice, there are people who will disagree with you.



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by WyrdeOne
DW
First off, if you want to deal with the NED problem, banning utensils is probably far shy of effective compared to..oh..I dunno..AN EDUCATION! That would pretty much sink the lovely colloquialism now wouldn't it? Educate the sods in proper manners and mutual respect, through the parents and the schools. Murder pop culture and let's pretend we know how to be civilized. The problem didn't start with kitchen knives, which means you can't end the problem by ending kitchen knives, follow?

Ok let me deal with this a point at a time, ok?
1) NED's only respect force.
2) Teachers have no force.
3) Parents do not care.
Those 3 are the big killers of that "education" idea, we have been trying that for the last 10 years, is not working so well.
The knifes are the utensils , take away the main weapon of choice then that restricts their armoury.


Take away a NED's kitchen knife, and he'll use a screwdriver to ventilate your lung instead, I'd bet money on it.

Yet, a knife is used more often than a screw driver why?
I will finish the rest later.




This isn't about NEDs, this is about principles. I'm not going to hack half a tuna into putty using a rubber spatula, because some magistrate thinks I'm unqualified to wield a blade, I just won't submit to that sort of disrespect. Go ahead and let others tell you what you can or can't do, just don't try and legislate this sort of thing without expecting a fight from those who

You want princeibles?
Your generiliseing EVERYTHING about this, saying its turning into a police state, removeing your rights slowly or insulting you.
Its in the intrest of protecting people, you know that a NED can carry a knife to hurt some one but I cant.
Why?
Because a NED doesnt care, he doesnt care if he gets done or not, only about haveing fun.
Oh and also, you already DO have people telling you what you can or cannot do, with out order there is anarchy.
Anarchy boils down gangs, and gangs boils down to a dictatorship.


And don't confuse my tolerance for happiness. Saying murder makes me happy is inferring a serious psychosis, and that's simply not the case.


What makes me happy is sticking to my principles of personal responsibility.

You stick to your princibles and I will stick to mine of wanting to defend my people at almost any cost.



Originally posted by sigung86
I've about come to the conclusion that DevilWasp is just yanking chains.

Then your conclusion is wrong...


He's arguing in circles,

Thats because most arguments work in circles.



and his logic is simple and flawed for the real world.

Really?
What do you suggest be done to stop the high attack rates and high fatality rates we've seen lately?

[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]



posted on Jun, 3 2005 @ 04:10 AM
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Really?
What do you suggest be done to stop the high attack rates and high fatality rates we've seen lately?


Get off the merry-go-round that you insist on riding, let people alone and live your own life to the very best of your ability and that would probably just about be a full time job. People are going to do as they will in spite of your best intentions, and perhaps more so in spite of your best efforts.

You continue to, metaphorically, walk in circles and keep saying the same hackneyed material over and over again, as if no one really understood your paranoia and distrust of your fellow man the first time through.

You will see increases in homicide and man's inhumanity to man if you leave your living room. It happens. You can not legislate against it, it only makes murderers and killers outlaws, and it obviously is not enough, as n spite of strict penalties, people continue to kill each other.

You are trying to fight nature and in spite of your protestations, you need to get a handle on who and what you are before you can step up and usefully legislate anyone elses right to own, cut bread with or brandish a foot long knife n a threatening manner. You keep forgetting individual responsibility and you keep trying to demean it and your fellow human beings in the light of groupthink safety.

I won't argue with you anymore... It's obviously pretty useless, as you continue to not understand your own thoughts, much less anyone elses....

But you did ask ...


[edit on 3-6-2005 by sigung86]



posted on Jun, 3 2005 @ 04:43 AM
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Originally posted by sigung86
Get off the merry-go-round that you insist on riding, let people alone and live your own life to the very best of your ability and that would probably just about be a full time job. People are going to do as they will in spite of your best intentions, and perhaps more so in spite of your best efforts.

So thats your overall stategy?
A lassie fair system?
In 1831 we had that system, didnt work because most of the poor where dieing of diseases.


You continue to, metaphorically, walk in circles and keep saying the same hackneyed material over and over again, as if no one really understood your paranoia and distrust of your fellow man the first time through.

Tell me where an argument , metophorically, has gone in a straight line.


You will see increases in homicide and man's inhumanity to man if you leave your living room. It happens. You can not legislate against it, it only makes murderers and killers outlaws, and it obviously is not enough, as n spite of strict penalties, people continue to kill each other.
[/qutoe]
So we give up?
We let murderers get away with it and frankly criminals run the country?


You are trying to fight nature and in spite of your protestations, you need to get a handle on who and what you are before you can step up and usefully legislate anyone elses right to own, cut bread with or brandish a foot long knife n a threatening manner. You keep forgetting individual responsibility and you keep trying to demean it and your fellow human beings in the light of groupthink safety.

Well if we've been fighting nature so far, we're winning.
Are you suggesting that murder be made legal?


I won't argue with you anymore... It's obviously pretty useless, as you continue to not understand your own thoughts, much less anyone elses....

I take it personal isults is high up on your list of arguement tactics....


But you did ask ...


[edit on 3-6-2005 by sigung86]

I asked what you would do, not that you go and insult me, but go ahead.
To me, your a nobody, what anyone else thinks of you is irrelevant unless It directly involves me.

[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]



posted on Jun, 3 2005 @ 07:00 AM
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OK... You win!

There... Feel better now?


One last note:

Not only is it irrelevent, but it is hippopotomus as well. And please... learn to spell lassy fair.



posted on Jun, 3 2005 @ 07:00 AM
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Will you, if you can , ban martial arts when they become the weapon of choice?

There will always be a weapon of choice! To keep firearms and knives off the street, metal shops must be destroyed. Can't have machines or hand tools that could make a weapon.

Roper

BTW, what is your way to stop all crime? DW?

[edit on 3-6-2005 by Roper]



posted on Jun, 3 2005 @ 08:34 AM
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Originally posted by sigung86
OK... You win!

There... Feel better now?


No, because I know theres someone out there who's going to try and spread opinion like fact.


One last note:

Not only is it irrelevent, but it is hippopotomus as well. And please... learn to spell lassy fair.

Its also an animal is it....
Not bad spelling from studying it 2 years ago.


Originally posted by Roper
Will you, if you can , ban martial arts when they become the weapon of choice?

Martial arts is diffrent from a knife.
You dont get trained in the way of a knife but you do get trained in the way of martial arts.


There will always be a weapon of choice! To keep firearms and knives off the street, metal shops must be destroyed.

Not true, simply keep an eye on the materials needed.


Can't have machines or hand tools that could make a weapon.

"Anything is a weapon , if you swing it right"
If a person spends nights makeing a weapon then he definatly is not like your average NED or yobo.


BTW, what is your way to stop all crime? DW?
[edit on 3-6-2005 by Roper]

My way?
You mean the one I said earlier?

[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]



posted on Jun, 3 2005 @ 08:45 AM
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Originally posted by Roper
Will you, if you can , ban martial arts when they become the weapon of choice?

There will always be a weapon of choice! To keep firearms and knives off the street, metal shops must be destroyed. Can't have machines or hand tools that could make a weapon.

Roper

BTW, what is your way to stop all crime? DW?

[edit on 3-6-2005 by Roper]


First of all, DevilWasp... I apologize for the nasty tenor I almost took. But ... You do seem to argue in big circles and keep coming back to the same arguments that you have been using all along. Kind of seems like a silly waste of bandwidth, and you are imminently wrong... However, I do apologize.

Now, on to answer the above quoted post.

The very things you are talking about were tried many years ago in a far away land called Okinawa. The Japanese Overlords banned all weapons in the hands of the populace. At that point the Japanese government became even more oppressive to the people of Okinawa. Eventually, even the practice of martial arts was outlawed.

The Okinawans took their already native art, simply called "Té", (pronounced "tay") or "hand" and began to teach it in secret places and times declaring, "Let every hand become a sword... Let every foot become a spear", or very nearly those words.

The Okinawans combined the native art called "Té" and significant portions of what we now call Kung fu along with some of the various attributes of the Japanese "Jitsu" styles. They trained mightily, and began to develop simple weapons out of their daily implements. And so, was born what was called "Karaté", or "China Hand" in deference to the Chinese culture which had contributed so much of the art that they took in.

With constant training and conditioning it became a dejour capability to use one's hands to break through the split bamboo armor to kill the samaraui warrior inside. Rice flails were developed into what we call Nunchaku, grinder handles became tonfa (a truly cool weapon to fight a sword with), and on and on.

What the Japanese didn't realize, and neither does DevilWasp is that you can not legislate ethics or morality. People will be and do what they want to be or do. This is the area I tried to touch on regarding the fact that people will kill when and where they want to. We make them individually responsible for their actions. You kill someone, you get away with it then your home free, but if you get caught you serve the time for the crime. It is that simple.

Take away the butcher knife, and soon the weapon of choice will be the pearing knife, or the butter knife, or the fork, or the spoon, or the broom handle or the mop handle, or the ... Well, I think you get the idea.

Legislating weapons is no way to deal with murder. It only makes the people, like the Okinawans, more inventive, furtive, and expert at what they must do in order to survive. There are other issues that need to be dealt with, and all the legislation against all the weapons in the world will not cause a drop in the number of people murdered. It will simply change the methods and tools. Notice I said tools, and not weapons. A weapon, no matter the size or scope is simply a tool to achieve an ends with. The ends is up to you.

Thanks for the really insightful post... Even though I may be the only one who appreciated the opportunity to try and respond intelligently.


[edit on 3-6-2005 by sigung86]



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