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NEWS: Doctors call for long pointed kitchen knives to be banned in UK.

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posted on May, 28 2005 @ 07:48 AM
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Originally posted by Phoenix
"They are from people in blind fury that see a knive, grab it and stab with it."

Exactly why attempting to control an object rather than the behavior will never work.........

Substitute the word knive for chair, frying pan etc. etc. and the folly is readily noticed.

No, thats not true. Whats the likelyhood of a frying pan puncturing internal organs? If, given a choice, would you rather be clobbered with a frying pan or stabbed with a 9" knife? If you fail to see the difference in the lethality of those weapons I put it forth that you might have had a run in with a frying-pan previously.

[edit on 28/5/05 by subz]




posted on May, 28 2005 @ 07:48 AM
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Cut someone with 1 million paper cuts and throw them into a pool of vinager

Impaled by a sword

Kill self with scapel

Repeatedly cut self with razor blades

Skewer thru the ear

Slit throat

Stab youself in your testicals and watch the blood flow

Swallow razor blades

quinnell.us...



posted on May, 28 2005 @ 08:21 AM
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Originally posted by subz


Exactly why attempting to control an object rather than the behavior will never work.........


No, thats not true. Whats the likelyhood of a frying pan puncturing internal organs? If, given a choice, would you rather be clobbered with a frying pan or stabbed with a 9" knife? If you fail to see the difference in the lethality of those weapons I put it forth that you might have had a run in with a frying-pan previously.



Whats the likelyhood of a 9" knife bashing your skull in? The knife or pan are both lethal wielded properly.

For that matter someone could be in a blind fury at the wheel of an automobile, why not ban them? would it be because they are a useful tool much like a knife?

[edit on 28/5/05 by subz]

[edit on 28-5-2005 by Phoenix]



posted on May, 28 2005 @ 08:28 AM
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Let's look at some facts. Those who condone the idea of banning large kitchen knives and other large knives in the UK would probably condone the same for the US.

2003 Facts
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
US population: 290,809,777
US Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter: 16,503 (0.006%)
US Aggravated assault: 857,921 (0.029%)
US Violent Crimes (no injury): 1,381,259 (0.47%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now for the breakdown of the above crimes and % of knives invloved.
US Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter w/kinves: 2,211 (13.4%)
US Aggravated assault w/kinves: 107,002 (18.2%)
US Violent Crimes (no injury) w/kinves: 209,951 (15.2%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now a more detailed breakdown. (my calculator skills suck, % may be off by a very small fraction of a percent)
Your chances of being being murdered with a knife are (0.0007%)
Chances of being assaulted with a knife are (0.036%)
Chances of being in a violent crime(no injury) w/a knife are (0.072%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now think about it....just think. Most of these crimes are more than likely commited with switchblade knives, butterfly kinves and kives you would expect to find on the street, Not Large knives such as kitchen knives that might be hard to conceal (and you take a chance of cutting yourself while it is concealed).

Murder by the blade
So we would assume that murders etc... that involve large knives such as kitchen knives would most likely take place in a home. Probably a home with a kitchen. Knives are used in 13.4% of all murders in the US. And probably a very small fraction of that involved large knives such as kitchen knives.

The end reslut is you have a 0.0007% chance of dying by some sort of knife. And even a smaller chance of being killed by a kitchen knife.

These are facts, you decide.

I say don't ban the knives. What's next pillows and pens? (dont anwer that)





[edit on 28/5/2005 by SportyMB]



posted on May, 28 2005 @ 08:29 AM
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Wrong Is Right


Originally posted by subz
Also the usurping of "s"'s historical home land which Americans gave to "z" is the root of all thats wrong in the World

I didn't say it was right, I just said it was American.

"America may not always be right, but God bless her, she's never wrong." -- General Wombat, Wrong is Right




posted on May, 28 2005 @ 09:21 AM
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Pardon my ignorance but where do you get the 0.0007% statistic from?

All I can see as a legitimate statistic is:

US Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter w/kinves: 2,211 (13.4%)

Given that the British doctors state that about half the murders with knives are kitchen knives would the amount of Americans killed by kitchen knives be around

1,100 a year?

Thats a 9/11 scale death toll from kitchen knives. Look at the response your nation has gone to to prevent those amount of deaths. Not every year, but once and not repeated.

Where is the equal response to the knive death toll inflicted on Americans? Its comparable in death toll to 9/11 but you dont advocate Patriot Act style clamp downs on the causes.

I really dont see how you got the 0.0007% statistic, can you please explain it more indepth?



posted on May, 28 2005 @ 09:32 AM
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where do you get the 0.0007% statistic from?

From a calculator.


posted by: subz
All I can see as a legitimate statistic is:
US Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter w/kinves: 2,211 (13.4%)


2,211 of 290,809,777 is 0.0007602908068665105%

number of knife deaths of the Population of US= 0.0007%

Here's a cool link, Kids this is awesome for homework...it's better than a calculator.

Again, If you are an American you chances of being killed with a knife are 0.0007602908068665105%.



I really dont see how you got the 0.0007% statistic, can you please explain it more indepth?

I hope that helps.



Its comparable in death toll to 9/11 but you dont advocate Patriot Act style clamp downs on the causes.

Hey man, I said nothing about the Patrito Act.....I dont even like it.









[edit on 28/5/2005 by SportyMB]



posted on May, 28 2005 @ 09:36 AM
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Ah ok, its a rather misleading statistic though.

You would be rather callous to dismiss 2,200 lives by assigning such a misleadingly low statistic. Shouldnt the prevention of 1 death be enough to justify removal of such an unwarranted form of weapon?



posted on May, 28 2005 @ 09:44 AM
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You would be rather callous to dismiss 2,200 lives by assigning such a misleadingly low statistic.

I guess using %'s is sometimes a better way of putting things in perspective. It can either work for you or against you.



Shouldnt the prevention of 1 death be enough to justify removal of such an unwarranted form of weapon?

I can't believe you made that comment, That could also apply to vehicles, shoestrings, alcohole, Bows & arrows, pepper spray for little old ladies, Martial arts training, baseball bats, and many other things that make life more enjoyable for millions all across the globe.

Subz, I understand where you are coming from. This may sound weird, but there has to be a buffer zone or acceptance rate for such things.

Medicine is an awesome thing, but it kill many each year. But look at how much easier it makes life for others. Same with vehicles and ariplanes.



posted on May, 28 2005 @ 10:34 AM
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Mock news article:

June 1, 2015 Reuters--After 20 years of a ban on sharp points on steak and other kitchen knives, no change has happened in the number of domestic attacks happening. When there was no point to the knife, instead of stabbing people started slicing. MP Colin Edwards is introducing legislation to sell all kitchen knives dull, while outlawing sharpeners. "We simply cannot tolerate any sharp knives whatsoever, with a ban on sharpeners that should take care of the matter." Meanwhile the installation of cameras in every home is intended to put an end to domestic violence, although husbands will simply wear a black mask or hire the wave of cheap hit men arriving from overseas.



posted on May, 28 2005 @ 10:40 AM
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Cause Of Death


Originally posted by SportyMB
Again, If you are an American you chances of being killed with a knife are 0.0007602908068665105%.

Meanwhile, in America your chance of being killed by a gun is 99.999239709193100%

At least, if the “public safety advocates” are right.


Get rid of the knives and the guns and we'll all live forever!




P.S. Yeah I know, utter hyperbolic hogwash. I have to let my hair down now and then, don't I? Guns and knives are neither the cause of nor answer to all of life's problems (that would be alcohol, per the great sage Homer Simpson). But sometimes, it's just fun to put my brain on autopilot and argue that they are one or the other. Were that I was the only one...


P.P.S. Why am I still here? I swore off these threads years ago, yet here I am. I guess I find the same old arguments reassuring, like a soft, fuzzy blanket of irrelevance to keep me warm in the cold, cruel forums I obsessively haunt.


P.P.P.S. Oh right. Now I remember. I'm here because this story is so outrageously hilarious. Graham Chapman must be rolling over in his grave.



posted on May, 28 2005 @ 10:42 AM
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20 years from now

That was great


After looking at the stats I posted I don't see how anyone an be in favor fo the ban.

Also...think about this. How many times has a large kitchen knife saved someones life? Say someone (a lady) grabbed a knife as an attacker came toward here with intent to rape or kill....this does happen.

Also Im guessing that people who used kitchen kinves to kill probably kiiled someone they knew, like thier spouse or family member. So its probably a last minute crime of passion. If that is the case what are they gonna do if they cannot find a large kitchen knife....."dam I cant kill you baby...I cant find a large kitchen knife"
....NO!!! there gonna go get some other tool, like a bat or fireplace poker or something like that.



posted on May, 28 2005 @ 11:03 AM
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SportyMB, the difference being that long sharp knives are not needed any more. Cars and shoestrings and the like are needed still.



posted on May, 28 2005 @ 11:19 AM
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Originally posted by subz
SportyMB, the difference being that long sharp knives are not needed any more. Cars and shoestrings and the like are needed still.

Maybe for you....many people do use them...is the absence of large kitchen knives really going to make life hard on them, No ofcourse it's not.

It's the principal of it....government control, that's what it comes down to.
I do not want the government telling me I cant have a kinfe because a few wacos hacked uo thier lovers.....no way not me.

That's like the government taking away the internet because a few wacos (more than with knives I migth add) go to sites and learn how to make bombs and blow crap up (KKK and Terrorist). Now we have the internet and it is our decision to use it as we please and suffer the consequences for useing it for bad means....just like with knives. Punish those who abuse the right to own knives, set the example.

The internet is responsible for more deaths than Large kitchen knives....should we ban that too?



posted on May, 28 2005 @ 12:54 PM
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You keep trying to equate the banning of useful items with the banning of these sharp pointed knives. There is no comparison, if you read the thought process I illustrated you'd see that a component of my agreement with this is that sharp ended knives are not warranted any more.

You can cut a watermelon just as easily with a blunt ended knife than a sharp ended one. Difference being you cant stab anyones vital organs with the blunt ended one.

I guess I advocate the removal of unwarranted items that would save lives. Cars, the internet and hammers etc have uses that cannot be replaced so banning them is not really an option.

Dont you get what I mean?

[edit on 28/5/05 by subz]



posted on May, 28 2005 @ 05:12 PM
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That is a thing of beauty. I don't care if it kills people, it's a useful tool, and a work of art.

My thumbs can kill people, in horrible, painful ways. But surely making thumbs illegal is nonsensical, so what other options are there? Simple, punish the criminal, not his tools.

You say the knives aren't useful, but I disagree. I think their usefullness is multi-faceted, and not surprisingly lost on those who have no appreciation for the fine art of blademaking.

Many of these knives are works of art, the culmination of CENTURIES of craftsmanship and dedication on the part of men like Masamune - gods among men. They laboured and sweated, and you want to criminalize their contribution? For shame...

The blades are not evil, the blades are not vicious.

It takes a human being..a willfull malevolence and a desire to destroy life. Why don't you outlaw that?

Then you might have my support...



posted on May, 28 2005 @ 05:25 PM
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It takes a human being..a willfull malevolence and a desire to destroy life

Wow, well said!


If someone is motivated to kill someone, not having a knife around willnot stop them. They will anything to kill, weapons of oppurtunity...



posted on May, 28 2005 @ 05:31 PM
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^^^^ At last some sane comments, (probably a lot more - havn't read anything - didn't expect such an outcry!! - glad though that a lot of poeple have such strong views on it as I do).

At the end of the day, human beings have since the dawn of their history found ways in which to kill and hurt each other. They always have and for the foreseeable future, sadly, always will.

I tihnk it boils down to that a lot of people, particularly 'doo-gooders' who have no real perspecive on life, can't or don't want to accept the sad truth that there is NO way to ever stop these bad things from happening.

Not any rational way anyway. I guess if you want to basically 'imprison' everyone by removing their basic human rights so everyone in the world is living in an open prison then party on.



posted on May, 28 2005 @ 05:36 PM
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Originally posted by subz
You keep trying to equate the banning of useful items with the banning of these sharp pointed knives. There is no comparison, if you read the thought process I illustrated you'd see that a component of my agreement with this is that sharp ended knives are not warranted any more.

You can cut a watermelon just as easily with a blunt ended knife than a sharp ended one. Difference being you cant stab anyones vital organs with the blunt ended one.

I guess I advocate the removal of unwarranted items that would save lives. Cars, the internet and hammers etc have uses that cannot be replaced so banning them is not really an option.

Dont you get what I mean?

[edit on 28/5/05 by subz]


you need the sharp point to cut into over ripe tomatoes, for example. once the skin is pierced, slicing is possible. if the knife is slightly dulled, it will just crush a ripe tomato. you NEED the point. knife design is centuries old. you NEED the point.

you need a long blade for watermelon, carving turkeys or other large pieces of meat.

do you cook, subz? it seems your idea of what's 'needed' in the kitchen is VASTLY different from mine. i RARELY grab a small knife. i prefer the feel and versatility of a ten inch chef's knife.
stay out of my kitchen, NWO!!!!

stupid doctors. why don't they spend their time duplicating the studies of pharmaceutical companies, instead of just taking the drug company propoganda at face value. medical malpractice, misdiagnosis and wrong prescriptions, collectively, is one of the top causes of death in america(i'm sure britain's not THAT different.) there are 700, 000 deaths a year attributed to these causes.

admit it. doctors are a WAY BIGGER problem than kitchen impulse killers. ridiculous.


[edit on 28-5-2005 by billybob]



posted on May, 28 2005 @ 05:47 PM
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You know, I dont get this idea that a knife will help in stopping the world order.
People think a knife is going to stop the NWO?
The NWO would not be stopped by a knife, a HK MP5 mabye...mabye a stinger missile launcher but not a Knife.

You know what, listen to people that save lives for a liveing, know what damage these weapons do. Respect them or not go ahead its your choice, I'll believe them because I know what thier like, know that even though it might sound silly or stupid it WOULD save lives.



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