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Should Russia apologize to Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia?

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posted on May, 26 2005 @ 10:08 PM
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Should Russia apologize to the Baltic States? After the official end of WW II, the Soviet Union continued to occupy Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia in spite of the fact that they were independent states. Recently, during the celebrations commemorating the sixtieth anniversary of the end of WWII, the Baltic States demanded that Russia apologize for the occupation of their respective nations. Furthermore, the populations of these three tiny states on the Baltic Sea were decimated by enforced labor in Siberia. Last week, the US Senate unanimously urged the Russians to apologize for this grievous illegal action. What do you think? Should Russia apologize?




posted on May, 26 2005 @ 10:38 PM
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Personally, I think that the idea of states and institutions apologizing to peoples and other states is silly and pointless. That being said, Russia should go ahead with it, if they (the requestors) want it, well, they (russia) did muck with them pretty damned badly, and its not skin off russias vodka soaked teeth. And tobacoo stained, russian cigs make marlboros looke like Virginia Slims, from what I hear.



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 10:52 PM
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An Estonian (who survived WWII, btw) told me about one million Estonians (about 1/4 of their population) died in russian concentration camps after WWII. If that is true, I think an apology should be the least they could give...



posted on May, 27 2005 @ 12:13 AM
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Absloutly not, because it would mean absloutly nothing except for the folks who would feel all peachy-keen over forcing Russia to do this. Quite frankly, I would prefer my enemies to be known, rather than trying to make me feel better while placing a dagger in my back. That's the horrible irony of these PC appologies. Yeah, they come out and say sorry, but do you think they really believe it, or did their resentment for that person/those people just increase ten fold? Every time my parents told me to say sorry to my sister for doing something I felt justified in doing, I didn't feel bad for what I did. I said I was sorry and made her pay for that later. Forcing an appology is probably one of the worst things for reconciliation I have ever heard, as the appologizer usually walks away pissed.



posted on May, 27 2005 @ 05:22 AM
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If there is any apologising to be done they can all apologise to each other and hopefully begin to put it all behind them.

The idea that the baltic states (like the states of Eastern Europe generally) sit like wronged innocents re Russia is a travesty of the history of what happened in WW2.

They sided with Hitler in his most murderous and cruel 'war of extermination' (in many cases with the utmost enthuisiasm) and lost; totally.

Who is surprised the Russians (faced with rebuilding the own decimated country and with 20- 30 million casualties ) didn't put the ex-nazi allies first or treated them very harshly?

It was a horrific chapter in the history of all concerned but I doubt if it were anyone else in Russia's position they would have acted very much differently.



posted on May, 27 2005 @ 12:46 PM
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Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
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The idea that the baltic states (like the states of Eastern Europe generally) sit like wronged innocents re Russia is a travesty of the history of what happened in WW2.

They sided with Hitler in his most murderous and cruel 'war of extermination' (in many cases with the utmost enthuisiasm) and lost; totally.

Let's not forget that before the war, Germany and Russia signed agreements to divide Europe. For her help and cooperation with Hitler's plans, Russia was to be able to claim the Baltic States and parts of Poland. Until the moment when Hitler invaded Russia, the two states were, for all intents and purposes, allies! In exchange for Russia's non-intervention, Germany was going to cede these territories to Stalin. This hardly places blame upon the Baltic States or, for that matter, Poland. Furthermore, after the war and while the ink was barely dry on all the treaties, Russia was actively occupying the Baltic States, looting them of their natural resources and moving populations to gulags in Siberia. Furthermore, keep in mind that the Baltic States had been subjugated for years by Russia. Russia was the historical enemy of the Baltic States whereas, historically, Germany had aided Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia long before Hitler and National Socialism had ever existed. It was only natural to side, to some degree, with Germany against their espoused enemy -- Russia.



posted on May, 27 2005 @ 02:41 PM
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Originally posted by benevolent tyrant
It was only natural to side, to some degree, with Germany against their espoused enemy -- Russia.


- I'm not contesting this.

I am saying that given the unparalleled savagery and inhumanity of the war in the east anyone who ended up a part of that on the losing side stands as neither innocent nor likely to be treated with much kindness if they lost, which they did.



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 06:01 AM
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That would be like USA, France, UK or former USSR apologizing to Germany.



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 06:03 PM
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With out a doubt in my mind. If the German Goverment payed reperations to the Jews after WW2 why can't the Russians pay for their 50 year rape of Eastern Europe?



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 09:01 PM
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Originally posted by yanchek
That would be like USA, France, UK or former USSR apologizing to Germany.


I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you entirely. The analogy you draw here is wrong.
USA, France and the UK apologizing to Germany would not be the same as Russia (formerly the Soviet Union) apologizing to Lithuanians and the other Baltic countries.
In the first case, Germany was the offending party. Germany attacked and waged war against the UK, France and, in the case of the U.S., her allies.

I notably excluded the former U.S.S.R. from the list as, in my opinion, the Soviets were complicit in helping Germany become the military power that they were after WWI. Additionally, Hitler and Stalin had signed treaties which, for all intents and purposes, made them allies until Hitler double-crossed Stalin by attacking the Soviet Union. Nevertheless, the treaties that Stalin signed with Hitler basically presented the Baltic States to the Soviet Union. Under the Soviets, Lithuania and the Baltic peoples suffered tremendously. The Soviets deported millions of Lithuanians, Latvians and Estonians to Gulags and work camps in Siberia.

So, this is NOT like the Allied forces apologizing to Germany. Instead, it is the opposite.



posted on Jun, 6 2006 @ 01:35 PM
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Most of the suffering by the people of the Baltic states, as well as everyone in the Soviet Union was under Stalin's regime. Stalin was a Georgian madman who saddly happened to come to power with his mass-assassin puppet Beria. He was not unlike Hitler and other mass murderes in history. Russians suffered, so did Ukrainians, and Belorusians, and Georgians, and Chechnians, Jews, Abkhaz, Kasaks, Uzbeks, Tatars, and Armenians, etc. (I could name perhaps 50 cultures which you never heard about before).

Current Russian governments, as well as the decaying Communist party denounced everything they had to do with Stalin, including his Cult Of personality. Why should they appologize? Maybe all of the past Soviets including Russians should ask appology from Saakashvili- current President of Georgia. But no Mr. Saaka is a US puppet, and you can't have the US puppet Baltic states criticizing another US puppet.

While we are at it why not ask Chancellor merkel to appologize to Israel and most of Europe for WWII. Or maybe ask the dead Reagan to appologize to the Kurds- Saddam did use the nerve gas US gave them to fight the Iranians. Or maybe those silly Mongolians? They did kill off 1/5 of the population of Eastern Europe way back then.

Idiots like Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, and Bu... oops lets not go there- happen in history. We must not appologize for them, but learn to keep those degeretes from power. Russia is not as fault here- a few Communist dinosaurs who are rotting underground are.

[edit on 6-6-2006 by maloy]



posted on Jun, 6 2006 @ 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by benevolent tyrant

Originally posted by yanchek
That would be like USA, France, UK or former USSR apologizing to Germany.


I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you entirely. The analogy you draw here is wrong...


... Under the Soviets, Lithuania and the Baltic peoples suffered tremendously. The Soviets deported millions of Lithuanians, Latvians and Estonians to Gulags and work camps in Siberia.


yes indeed, the soviets made , in Lithunaia at least, the teaching of the language & traditions of the culture against the law.
It sorta 'mirrored' how the US tried to 'assimilate' the Native American Nations & cultures in the 'Manifest Destiny" model of conquering a people -nation-culture.

about the Germans paying reparations, to Jews+slave labor+Roma, etc.
That is essentially a Crock...One has to jump thru so many hoops and meet impossible criteria to even be considered for the mere pittance of $500USDfrom modern Germany
(for their past WWII Nazi crimes to non-aryans)
that it wasn't worth pursuing.

The fund was just a cosmetic thing...a mere money exchange for programs like the IOM (International Organization for Migration) to hire the personnel & create the infrastructure for amassing, storing, quantifying and retrieving for some proprietary need, the info & data sent in from jerks like myself, who volunteered personal & family histories to that 'collection point'

search for yourself: German Forced Labor Compensation Programme, on your search engine
located @ 1752 N Street, NW
Washington, DC 20036-2906
but the main office is in Switzerland...another victim & collusionist state, unfortunately



posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 09:00 PM
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Originally posted by benevolent tyrant

Originally posted by yanchek
That would be like USA, France, UK or former USSR apologizing to Germany.


I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you entirely. The analogy you draw here is wrong.
USA, France and the UK apologizing to Germany would not be the same as Russia (formerly the Soviet Union) apologizing to Lithuanians and the other Baltic countries.
In the first case, Germany was the offending party. Germany attacked and waged war against the UK, France and, in the case of the U.S., her allies.

I notably excluded the former U.S.S.R. from the list as, in my opinion, the Soviets were complicit in helping Germany become the military power that they were after WWI. Additionally, Hitler and Stalin had signed treaties which, for all intents and purposes, made them allies until Hitler double-crossed Stalin by attacking the Soviet Union. Nevertheless, the treaties that Stalin signed with Hitler basically presented the Baltic States to the Soviet Union. Under the Soviets, Lithuania and the Baltic peoples suffered tremendously. The Soviets deported millions of Lithuanians, Latvians and Estonians to Gulags and work camps in Siberia.

So, this is NOT like the Allied forces apologizing to Germany. Instead, it is the opposite.



and when you look at it PROPORTIONATELY, the baltic states lost much more people than the US and UK. Poland alone lost about 1/4 of its population during WW2, and many other baltic states lost similar numbers. While the British lost about 5-10% of what was their population before the war started and likewise with the Americans. [each country did make a massive war effort though
]

Russia also lost a lot of its population but that was due to lack of training and equipment, they were sending out untrained recruits to fight the best of teh Nazi forces.

but after the war, Stalin had a special grudge against the Baltic States, he believed they were Russia's by right. During the Polish/Soviet war of 1920 and 1921 he lost a very embarrasing battle to teh Polish and that gave Poland back some of its former cities in Lithuania and Ukrain, (like Lwow)

after Stalin gained power in Russia, he had a bone to pick and sent thousands of Eastern Europeans, not only Polish, to gulags and force labor camps, especially salt and coal mines.

"Bringing communism to Poland is like trying to saddle a cow." - Stalin
because thats what he believed, he had thousands of Polish officers massacred near Katyn forest. (Look up KATYN MASSACRE)

the other Baltic countries were treated similarly. Do i think Russia should apologize? Hell no! The russian people are kind and friendly, Poland's cousins to the east. what i think they should do, is make some former Communist leaders go on to live television and apologize for the harsh treatment of Eastern European people.

personally, some of my good friends are from Russia and Ukrain, we get along fine and they have some of that good old Polish hospitality in their culture also





if anyone is looking for a good read= A Question of Honor: The Kosciuszko Squadron


i loved it, will put WW2 in a whole new perspective. I am not looking to change your minds about WW2, but what i am trying to do is put another peoples' view of the war in your heads. Each country teaches what it went through during WW2, and never what the others went through. So have fun



posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 09:01 PM
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at least i've read it was about 5-10% of the population, correct me if i'm wrong



posted on Feb, 16 2007 @ 02:52 AM
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He believes that they will one day be back as part of the new U.S.S.R..
He is a hard line old school Russian that believes they should still be a part of them. He would seem weak to his people if he did so.




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