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Chirac still wants to go ahead even if vote is no.

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posted on May, 26 2005 @ 09:01 PM
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www.timesonline.co.uk...

“We do not know if there is going to be a ‘yes’ or ‘no’ but a ‘no’ would create massive uncertainty about what we are supposed to be voting on,” a ministerial source said. M Chirac went on French television last night to deliver a dramatic last-ditch appeal for a ‘yes’ vote. He urged the French people not to punish his Government.

“The decision before us goes far beyond traditional political divisions,” he said. The choice was “about your future and that of your children, of the future of France and the future of Europe. On Sunday, everyone will have a share of the destiny of France in its hands.”

He argued that the constitution would strengthen France’s influence in Europe and reinforce the French social model. Rejecting it would create “divisions and doubts” in Europe when “we need a political Europe capable of bringing about a genuine European power”.

it looks like a new French attempts to control Europe, havent they learn anithing from the Napoleon Era. you cannot control all of Europe. there are still people who prefer to keep their culture and other ways of life that they considered that suits them, not French social life.




posted on May, 27 2005 @ 03:38 AM
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Originally posted by deltaboy


it looks like a new French attempts to control Europe, havent they learn anithing from the Napoleon Era. you cannot control all of Europe. there are still people who prefer to keep their culture and other ways of life that they considered that suits them, not French social life.


Man, you are really out to bash us europeans


First of all, the most social countries are Sweden, Norway and Austria, conicidentaly the countries with the best and highest life standard in the world (ah that evil social economy that actually cares for people).

Second, France is not trying to control anything.
EU is a union of sovereign countries, but I guess that little detail somehow escaped your attention. We all still have our own culture, language, presidents, parliament, football clubs etc, etc. Nobody ever wanted to destroy that, it is only that people outside of EU do not understand EU and whats it all about. In all EU countries people vote for their candidates, they choose what they want to, many choose conservative parties. French life has absolutely no influence on polish or hungarian voters. You should really learn more about how our democratic system in EU works.
The union is based on cooperation of separate entities and not on distruction of those entities.

It is interesting that you seem to criticize the Union as way of losing sovereignty, you say that is evil it is better to be separate, but in another thread you criticize and see as bad that EU countries have different opinions on various issues, you see that difference as negative and you want them to be more united. You really have to think about what your view on EU actually is, me thinks. Which is it? Do you think europe should be united or divided?
Make up your mind.



posted on May, 27 2005 @ 04:37 AM
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Originally posted by deltaboy
it looks like a new French attempts to control Europe


- This is just laughable.

Have you even the slightest idea how Europe is run?


you cannot control all of Europe.


- The 25 sovereign nation states comprising the EU are a cooperative collective, they are not "run" by any single country and to claim or imply they are is just ridiculous and a complete denial of the actual reality of the situation.

Try looking up the European Parliament, the council of Ministers, the European commission, the rotating European Presidency etc etc.
Basically try finding out a little about what you are talking about, hmmm?


there are still people who prefer to keep their culture and other ways of life that they considered that suits them


- Of course who has ever claimed otherwise?

This is typical 'strawman' stuff........ only in the most absurd dreams of the anti-EU dingbats would anyone even attempt to claim otherwise.

The idea that the EU is about (or even stands the remotest chance of attempting) to make French people no longer French, Germans no longer German, British no longer British, Greeks no longer Greek etc etc is solely the idiotic propaganda for the lamest of lame-brains intent on exploiting the ignorance of the most ignorant and unthinking.


not French social life.


- OK, let's hear a handful of examples of the French attempting to impose their social life throughout Europe, I'll give you a few days to google you heart out.



posted on May, 27 2005 @ 08:42 AM
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Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
- OK, let's hear a handful of examples of the French attempting to impose their social life throughout Europe, I'll give you a few days to google you heart out.


how about domestic first, the Frenchies put out a law banning the scarfs of Muslim women because its so un-France and they are afraid it will jeopardize the France social life. hmmmmmm i wonder why they are so into the scarfs.



posted on May, 27 2005 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by deltaboy
how about domestic first


- Why?
You have been claiming they are attempting to control Europe so where is you evidence to back this up?


the Frenchies put out a law banning the scarfs of Muslim women


- This is not true and either pure ignorance or a lie.

The French banned Muslim girls from wearing their headscarfs in school. This story is about a school dress code.. That is all.

Not too dissimilar to a dress code in any school, except the local school governors and the management bodies on the French schools kept kicking it up until it reached gov level for a ruling.


because its so un-France and they are afraid it will jeopardize the France social life.


- Is that it?

A completely misunderstood ruing about a school dress code is your grounds for believing the French are trying to impose control on the other 24 EU members?

That's what I'd call sad.

So, anything of substance to back up your 'belief', at all?


hmmmmmm i wonder why they are so into the scarfs.


- They aren't.
They were into the idea that some of their kids should not be hiding their faces........just like hoodies have been banned (by Mall owners, not the gov) in the UK.



posted on May, 27 2005 @ 06:50 PM
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Originally posted by deltaboy
how about domestic first, the Frenchies put out a law banning the scarfs of Muslim women because its so un-France and they are afraid it will jeopardize the France social life. hmmmmmm i wonder why they are so into the scarfs.


One of the biggest inheritances of the French Revolution is the separation of Church and State. France is merely remaining faithful to the principles that created it as a Republic. Just like the United States would do under the circumstances.



posted on May, 27 2005 @ 07:27 PM
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Why not tell the truth that the British hate the French and the Germans, we always have through hundreds of years of history.We don't mind trading with them but having a Frog or a Jerry running a European Union is a no go area. We like the Nordic people and Spanish and Italians so don't think we hate everybody.



posted on May, 27 2005 @ 07:44 PM
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Originally posted by Bulldog 52
Why not tell the truth that the British hate the French and the Germans, we always have through hundreds of years of history.


- Nonsense.

The British and French and Germans have all at various times been great enemies and great friends. Don't you know "the truth" of your own history?

In any case it was simply a question of the prevailing interests at the time.

I see no reason to allow outdated and rather silly notions of ancient long passed enmities restrict and retard the living standards and potential of me and mine.


We don't mind trading with them but having a Frog or a Jerry running a European Union is a no go area.


- Then you'll be very glad about the entire system of agreement and vetos and the fact that no French person or German ("Frog" or "Jerry"!?......jayzuss wept, thankfully that is a dying mentality) is going to "run" the EU.


We like the Nordic people and Spanish and Italians so don't think we hate everybody.


- Sorry, it might not be actual "hate" but I think I suspect you have a degree of prejudice toward all 'foreigners' solely based on them being 'foreign'.

[edit on 27-5-2005 by sminkeypinkey]



posted on May, 27 2005 @ 07:53 PM
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Originally posted by sminkeypinkey

Originally posted by Bulldog 52
Why not tell the truth that the British hate the French and the Germans, we always have through hundreds of years of history.


- Nonsense.

The British and French and Germans have all at various times been great enemies and great friends. Don't you know "the truth" of your own history?

In any case it was simply a question of the prevailing interests at the time.

I see no reason to allow outdated and rather silly notions of ancient long passed enmities restrict and retard the living standards and potential of me and mine.


We don't mind trading with them but having a Frog or a Jerry running a European Union is a no go area.


- Then you'll be very glad about the entire system of agreement and vetos and the fact that no French person or German ("Frog" or "Jerry"!?......jayzuss wept, thankfully that is a dying mentality) is going to "run" the EU.


We like the Nordic people and Spanish and Italians so don't think we hate everybody.


- Sorry, it might not be actual "hate" but I think I suspect you have a degree of prejudice toward all 'foreigners' solely based on them being 'foreign'.

[edit on 27-5-2005 by sminkeypinkey]
Your right i don't like the French , always ignoring the rules to keep French people happy , Germans are still living in Hitlers mess so i don't trust them. Perhaps you might see something in this union that i don't?



posted on May, 28 2005 @ 08:06 AM
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Originally posted by Bulldog 52
Perhaps you might see something in this union that i don't?


- Yes perhaps I do; I'd call it the world of today.

Whatever the flaws or general problems a Europe of cooperation is incalculably better, safer, richer and generally a better place to live (for us all) than the turbulent mess we used to suffer here in Europe when we were a collection of so-called competitive nation states.

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British suspicion and prejudice towards foreigners is nothing new.
Merely what 'we' define as 'foreigner' has changed.

There was once a time when the exact same attitudes you cite towards the Germans or French were aimed at Scot, Welsh and Irish back in Britain; not that long ago it was aimed at the black man.

Nowadays such attitudes are widely seen as absurd as we have integrated and become each other.
The same is going on with Europe right now. Especially with the young.

We've been, we have gotten to know them, we work with them more and more and we are connecting and marrying them more and more.



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 08:55 PM
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Originally posted by Bulldog 52
Why not tell the truth that the British hate the French and the Germans, we always have through hundreds of years of history.We don't mind trading with them but having a Frog or a Jerry running a European Union is a no go area. We like the Nordic people and Spanish and Italians so don't think we hate everybody.

Umm might I add most of the UK is directly related to those 2 specific countries.
Us and germany where great allies before the boar wars, we where quite inclined to side with them in WW1...







 
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