Most ppl who are freemasons are good ppl, but those who are leading this society have some very questionable actions...

And if they are hiding secrets maybe it is because the truth would overwhelm ordinary folks, something so dark and sinister that people cannot handle it. It is sometimes better to keep people in the dark until they are ready to see the light.

[Edited on 8-8-2003 by SilverDeath]

I can't imagine any information that honestly justifies secrecy like that. In fact I challenge anyone to come up with an example to prove otherwise.

1. Who would be able to judge the right time to release it?

2. Even if it was released, would it matter unless people believed it was true?

3. If released and believed true, would it change the fact that it was true?

4. Is the truth something some have the right to know and not others if it applies to all?

For some reason they think they must protect the "truth". Because truth is power. This to me makes no sense at all. Like I've been saying all along. If it's so great then why does it have to be hidden?

Do you see mainstream religions trying to hide the truth from another person. No they incourage insight into there beliefs. But when you ask a Mason about there beliefs they always give a vague explanation that almost seems generac.

This supports my views that Freemasonry is occultic. As I presented to you the meaning of occultic in earlier threads.

[Edited on 8-8-2003 by oconnection]

I couldn't agree more oconnection. I will never agree that hidding the truth in any way is for the betterment of mankind.

In some respects though, it isn't so much that others have hidden the truth from us, but the fact that we think they have the answers and so we have stopped looking for it ourselves.

The truth you seek is yours and yours alone to find. Believing that someone else has the answers you seek only enslaves you to do their bidding. Do not believe them, they do not have the answer you seek for the truth cannot be hidden from view by anyone. All they can do is make you believe in them instead of yourself and convince you to see what they want instead of what is truely there.

I do not believe they have the truth of any kind. When I'm talking about keeping the truth I'm talking about what there really about. I believe they keep the truth about themselves because most people openly would not accept it. I believe the general public would be against such a society. Understably they have remained hidden.

The secret to who they are in most cases is a mystery to all of them too. Nobody including themselves probably could piece together their own history since at one level or another they've all be kept in the dark about something. More importantly though is not to judge the individual based on the group.

Not too long ago some other masters of occult kept a great secret from the masses. It was only those of certain bloodlines or of power who had the knowledge to understand the cryptic writtings that held the key to understanding all the mysteries of the universe. The common man being without the knowledge of written language was forced to then learn from these great masters what was written since they could not read it for themselves. This allowed the masters control and obedience from the common man gaining them even more power and eventually the less educated man himself. What was written were the words of God and the masters were with Catholic Priests. Sadly what the masters taught and lived were two different things, the shepard bleeding his own sheep to death for his own vanity and ego, never understanding why, where or what path he followed but always making the sheep believe there was safety in following him.

These same practices continue to this very day, although some of the names and faces have changed the game is still the same.

It would seem from the information on record, that there is some connection between the Freemasonry movement and the Ku Klux Klan. The KKK being the strong arm or the more outward of the two. Why has so much of our National Hertitage and history been repressed? History describes where we have been and helps identify a path for our future! We don't know what we don't know! Comments?

Well obviously you all missed my last post discussing the values of secrecy.

Take America for example.

The "Truth" is god created man equal, and we have certain inaliable rights that Man must uphold, that Governments must uphold, because of this.

Our government was awesome, the Citizens even better, Freedom under the law for those to whom it applied, was unseen in all the world before. Because of that truth.

But it's not a respected truth, because it's not "hush hush", it's in plain site, for people to take for granted.

Now look at today.

Atheists trying to prevent people from praying, and from the word God from being spoken ever.

Homosexuals trying to redefine the definition of Marriage which has been the same in every society for over 8000 years, marriage is between a man and a woman.

Druggies trying to legalize harmful addictive drugs.

All because of this great and Noble truth.

Freemasonry teaches something similar if not exactly the same, but it's a gaurded truth, that you EARN, and do not take for granted.

You work for this truth...as you are told after being raised (or should be told):

"You have not yet attained the SD o MM. You are not a Master Mason, so far as to enable you to prove yourself one, or to travel and work as one; nor do I know that you will ever become a Master Mason. You have a ways to travel over that is extremely perilous...."

It continues as such, the journey, is your journey and quest for knowledge, truth, and the teachings of Masonry.

BROTHERLY LOVE
RELIEF
TRUTH

No mason can say his journey is ever over, because the mysteries of such is always sought.

These same ideals are taught by many, even the Christian and Muslim Faiths.

Yet, they are in plain sight and not respected.

Because of that, common men do not heed them, but take them for granted.

And in times when Evil rises, such as Nazi Germany, Common men forget these truths and follow blindly into the darkness.

But any Mason who acts as such, and is not just in it for the "drinks"...will never follow blindly into the dark...but always faithfully into the light.

Conspiracy theorists, can not seem to grasp that fact.

The question is Who Do You Follow?

Buddism, the Muslim faith, & Christianty all have survived through those same events which you are talking about. Without hiding in secrecy. That is no excuse or reason to do so for the purpose of surviving.

If one truely believes on what he is serving it does not stay hidden. You don't see a police man saying I'm not a police man, or a doctor saying I'm not a doctor. They acknowledge that this is the truth because they are proud to the values which they serve.

So what I ask you is what is it your afraid of? I think it's the truth of what your "truth" is.

[Edited on 8-8-2003 by oconnection]

oconnection

Not to put you off your purpose at all, but there are thousands of Muslims, Christians and Buddhists in Freemasonry.

I wouldn't say either of those groups survived.

Islam is far from what it teaches (as a whole) and survives only through brute force, like-wise, there are MANY different fractions of Islam of which sunnis and shiites are just two.

Some are very violent...

Christianity, there are over 1000 christian sects. And again, many christians act very "Unchristian"...while many Masons are exemplary examples of Masonry. Although because of the want for quantity rather than quality, Masonry is allowing (especially in America) just about anyone in, and that is tarnishing the image a bit as not all give a hoot.

Some states have "three degrees in a day" programs, which completely destroys the meaning of work in masonry, and is a crime against the initiate...that practice I feel will die out eventually.

Buddhism really isn't a religion as much as a philosophy.

It's religious in that it spans from this world into the "what happens after you die" realm, but it rather teaches you to seek for enlightenment, and it is only sought after by the monks (who devote their lives to it).

Lay Buddhists (the common buddhists) rarely have hope for enlightenment, and simply live life as they are taught to practice it.

The fact that you have thousands of Christians, Muslims, & Buddist in your society doesn't change anything. When a mason becomes a mason there is a ritual performed. Very much like a baptism in Christianty. In thus sense a person is denouncing there previous faith. Saying i was in the dark but no I seek the light.

So the fact that people say they are christian, buddist, or muslim doesn't matter. The person joining has a rebirth they must go through first. Saying they owe there allegiance to the worshipful master.

Not sure what you mean by my society but I think people who are church goers and have been thoroughly indoctrinated would always keep their faith.

It seems you didn't read any of the ritual you say you read on some other topic, at all.

I've read the Masonic Monitor Handbook. Isn't that your standard for your rituals?

Originally posted by oconnection
In thus sense a person is denouncing there previous faith.

1. No, there is no standard, and that one is obsolete.

2. From what you said before (above), you can't have read it.

THE LOST KEYS OF FREEMASONRY or The Secret of Hiram Abiff
by MANLY P. HALL

What do you think of the above?
Is this still part of Freemasonry study today?

mojom

1. I haven't read it.

2. No, it's not in any way 'prescribed'.

3. Researcher has some opinions on its significance, I find it (with authority) to be insignificant.

Have you read it, and what did you think?

Well, I'll tell ya what I think. If it wasn't for the stuff within it, I wouldn't have the respect for Freemasonry that I do at this point. The whole story with Hiram Abiff is really on the "Religious Scripture" kinda level for a following that doesn't claim to be a Religion, but I liked the meaning and idea behind it. I'm sure more careful study would reveal more but I understood the meaning behind it and really liked the use of numerical meanings too. The idea of our own prison in which we are trapped and perspective reality I thought was at least more creative and with much more clever view point than most other theological ideas.
But what really stuck with me as far as saving face for Freemasonry was the respectful, humble, more appropriate ideals which is how it explained Freemasonry. It showed Masonic practice as something to be proud of and I could see why. Also true and honest and caring. But these also seem to be the things which have been lost or thrown aside in the Masonic practice today, which is sad really! Being that you haven't read it there may be more in it than you know of, cause it was more than just about Hiram Abiff, that was just the first part. It's actually pretty long, if you want to check it out it's all in one long text file.

Another thing is the way it talked about the Secrecy stuff. It spoke of it in a way I could see and understand. In a way that Freemason here at ATS needs to view it instead of being so hard headed about it. But that's just my opinion, I don't think he'll ever change his view on the subject.

moJom

Thanks for that. I will keep an eye out for it, but I'm not doing much reading in the area these days.

I have a first edition of a more generic book by the same author (Hall) that belonged to my uncle, which I have dipped in and out of and found very interesting.

The story of the life and death of Hiram Abiff is core to certain 'legends' from which moral lessons are derived.

None of the moral lessons are based on anything but the highest principles.

Nothing contrary to those principles can be found in the old ritual that another member posted on ATS.