Originally posted by oconnection
But it all was based on lies. Something is not a great value when it is not the truth.

Whoah! You've gone from secrets to lies. You do understand those are not the same, don't you?

Where is the lie?

FM

Sometimes people who have no desire to listen, who know everything because they heard it from some authority figure who told them to believe it, and who have no desire to become active members of a society or do any good in the community, are not worth talking to.

I can see your point about having a Masonic leader at the highest levels of Government, but only if it is known and is allowed to be a factor for the "People who the Leader is Working for" in their vote to put him in power.

Simply because Loyalty and devotion is a great thing and respectable in a Leader. But if someone has already pledged Loyalty to one group, it is logical to see how he may be put in a situation that pits him against Loyalty to Freemasonry against the People of the Republic who put him in office. You know what I'm saying. If someone openly was a Mason and running for president, it should not be a secret...not because Freemasonry is bad, but because his Loyalty would be effected when considering conflicting choices. Should he choose what Freemasonry ideals lean toward, or what the people who elected him to do a job lean toward.

I find it odd when you don't know what masonry teaches, that you can claim it's all based on lies...

Well lucky mOjOm that the USA was constructed and founded upon masonic ideals, though not all the influential people had any connection with masonry, the ideals, were shared by all from the author of Common Sense to George Washington and Ben Frankling (both masons).

People will see Masonry as a conflict of interest but considering this Republic, (if one may be so audacious to call it a Masonic Republic), but really they go hand and glove

Loyalty to a Masonic Lodge can't affect your loyalty to the country you serve. In fact, it requires it.

The UK has tried to bring about laws requiring police and military personnel to disclose their Masonic ties.

It will happen in other places too.

But Freemasonry will survive, for good reasons, and it will include diverse people, and it will exclude other people (criminals, underachievers, atheists, even women... horror of horrors).

Enjoy the rest of your learning about Freemasonry, rahboni said what he said very well and some of you weren't interested in that and treated it with disdain, which would make you less worthwhile as a human being 'in my opinion'.

No more posts from me on this one.

I honestly don't think that "masonic disclosure" thing would really work if the person didn't want to disclose his membership.

In britain it'll probably reveal a bunch of masons, but britain is hardly the place for a mason to worry about lol

Somewhere like Ireland? Yeah right...gotta get me one of those Irish Mason rings man!

I've known of too many Masons and have enough understanding of it's teaching to think otherwise. But at the same time I'm not always a real inspired by what mankind does with such things though, and I think some men have for whatever reason betrayed Masonic principles just as some Catholic's have betrayed their practice as well. I just don't think secrecy of any kind is a positive thing. If something is the truth, then it is true for everyone and is God in itself and therefore is meant for everyone to see, hear, study, understand, etc...To hide any truth is like hiding God(or highest power, etc..) from your fellow brothers and sisters and is a crime of arrogance in His name against His Children. Plain and simple, other than that, the root of it at least seems fine.

But what was that part about Women???? Why not exactally??? Didn't even masons have a mother that was the vessel that carried them at their most fragile point until birth? No respect for the Mom's, that is just bad Karma man.....

I think secrecy is a very valuable thing.

See...one lesson of Masonry is that while empires and nations will rise and fall, Masonry has outlived many and will out live more!

Reason being, unlike Religions, which are not a process of learning, but a doctrine, that eventually schisms and destroys itself.

Unlike nations, which again, is not a learning process, but a birth right...eventually they war and destroys themselves.

Secrecy, is the best school.

To learn something that is not taught publically, is to not only respect it, but to attempt to understand it.

This doesn't mean the public doesn't have access to the information, it's just no one is paying attention.

Masonry helps a man to pay attention.

Just as a religion would.

In fact, Buddhism is a good comparison for the following reason.

Buddhsim has schismed very little, and only in method, not in doctrine (though local gods are usually believed in).

Reason is because Buddhism is also a learning process, while Christianity and Islam are not, hence why they will probably blow themselves to peices soon.

Judaism is also a learning process, and the less "scholastic" sects of Judaism, have always been the most short lived.

Freemasonry teaches something probably pretty obvious, through history that is obscure, and allegory that no one else has every heard of.

Through this, the recipients not only preserve the information, but attempt to learn of it, and therefore Masonry has survived what is comparably unchanged, for 300 years.

But also, secrecy means that when ignorance prevails such as in a nation like Nazi Germany...knoweldge and truth will survive until such a nation is destroyed.

This is the number one reason Jews didn't fight back.

Fighting would mean they'd be destroyed regardless, the most important thing for upper-class jews, was simply preserving their beliefs and traditions, through such dark times.

Sometimes secrecy is more powerful than strength and the sword.

Time is on the side of those not hunted.

I know just what you are saying, especially because of the Buddhist reference.

Something like Buddhist teaching, or Toaist teaching even. The secret is that all the answers are hidden in plain view. Nothing is hidden any more once the vision is cleared and ready to accept seeing it.

The Truth itself is simple enough for anyone to see at any time, yet is never ending in it's precise universal beauty. Perfect harmony from infinite begining through infinite expanding life.

Too simple to be defined by any language while being an impossible riddle to complex to be explained by all languages working together.

The true secret isn't even a secret that could be written down and hidden. It can only be understood once one is ready to see, and forever in waiting for those still searching for the obvious.

You can not teach Taoism to anyone just as you cannot learn it from anyone else. It is the understanding of experience as it is happening just as it happens. Then movement within the flow of everything in perfect exact harmony without effort. To be. Complete and aware of life as it is happening without question, without past or future, without any answers hidden from view. That is The Way.

If that is what you are hinting toward then I understand the secret as everlasting and impossible to destroy, for it is the word, the one, the truth. That makes sense to me. If that is what Freemasonry is attempting to guide people too, then that would explain it never being destroyed.

Am I getting the right message???

FreeMason

Your best Masonic anti-conspiracy conspiracy post of all time has occured in recent history, and mojom has listened and formed a valid interpretation.

If I had any power in the conspiracy of 'Insider Appreciation Points', you would both have one for the insights and the ability in questioning and reflective listening.

I liked both of those very much.

Yeah...seems my only strong points are in History and Secret societies though

But I'm working on my other areas

Not interest in Freemasony. The topic of Freemasonary has taken a good two months of my life. I am what some people call obsessed with the topic.

I've even looked up a local lodge. But it didn't give a exact adress.

I've dug into the web. Dug up what I could. It's not easy get factual information.

My interest came about when I learned that George Washington and the founding fathers were Masons. At first I did't even know what Freemasonry was. So I started to dig. The more I dug, the more dark It got. The more concealed the information became.

I never said Freemasonry was all based on lies. I said that it is a lie to think we have a democracy. When in your lodges you guys are having meetings, discussing polices. Very influential people are members. Up in high places. I concluded that they got there for a reason. That this society, this frat house of such helped them get there.

Now that there isn't it reasonable to ask, just ask. That could there be a agenda that is not what general public knows about. But perhaps a Freemasonry one.

This is what I said was based on lies. Not Freemasonry

[Edited on 6-8-2003 by oconnection]

[Edited on 6-8-2003 by oconnection]

oconnection

Sorry to cut across once again.

You say freemasonry has taken up two months of your life, but you are not a Freemason.

For others, it is 'a way of life'.

Freemasonry has nothing to do with democracy per se, although it thrives in many democracies. It boasts among its members people of all walks of life. It has liitle to do with NWO, or Illuminati, or world domination plans.

Yeah, very interested in it. When I found out about it I was sort of became a little obsessive about it. At work, I'm reading about it. While at home, I read some more. Everything from conspiracies to pro Mason writtings. What ever I can get my hands on about the topic of Freemasonry.

I almost went to visit a local lodge to for the sake of checking it out. But map quest didn't give an exact adress.

I guess I'm searching for something. That something is the truth.

Originally posted by Seekerof
Anytime that information is kept from others or held back....you will have mis-trust.
Think about it.
It goes from a mere friend not telling you something that you know he knows to governments not telling all they know.
Be for whatever the reasons they may be.....
Doing so will always cause mis-trust.


Not to bash on mormons or anything but even they are left in the dark about the upper workings of their religion until they are too firmly entrenched in it to get out.
regards
seekerof

[Edited on 6-8-2003 by Seekerof]

Make sure you don't get mislead or sidetracked with all the searching, learning and studying that you lose site of that goal either.

Truth is the goal that so many have lost after becoming confused by their own efforts to obtain it.

I think it is safe to say that if Truth is what you seek, you will find it. Another way you might think of it, is that Truth has already found you and you may only need to forget that you've lost it.

Your signature is interesting mOjOm because Masonry is philosophical if a Masons is actually into it and doesn't just show up for beer, which I've yet seen

And since some masons do become polititicans PRESTO! lol...

And on top of that, it is tradition the Kings of England become masons...though Prince Charles hasn't, but he's too "girly" anyways (no offense england lol).

But so no wonder Brittain has long been the most decent and best Constitutional Monarchy on the planet.



Plato's dream is being realized! *Dun dun dun...DUN!*

Here's a man that would agree with me on what I've been saying about Freemasonry.

"The very word "secrecy" is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers, which are cited to justify it."

President John F. Kennedy

Fair enough...

The Masons aren't the only ones with bits of secrecy. The Elks...Knights of Columbus...Lions...among others, have their own bit of ritual, passwords, etc.

I've had several conversations with KofC members, and they have come to the realize they have no problem with Freemasons. It's unfortunate that the Pope and Vatican still denounce us.

Nothing holds an aura of wonder, suspicion, and disdain than a group of people you do not belong to. The Freemasons have been keeping quiet too long. Elder members held on to ideals that kept even their membership in the fraternity secret.

A new breed of Masons are springing up...proudly announcing they belong to the Masonic Fraternity...proudly defending the causes they adhere to...

JFK (God rest his soul) should talk...government secrecy is far worse than any club or organization..

Goodnight...