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Originally posted by SIRR1
All of you EU hopefulls just got stabbed in the back by France!
If I lived in Europe, I would ratify the constitution and leave out the French,
plan your new EU government and do it with out the French.
Originally posted by UK Wizard
We can't leave out the French as they are a main part of the EU, removing any of the big names would cripple the EU.
[edit on 26-5-2005 by UK Wizard]
Originally posted by centurion1211
I'm afraid SIRR1 has it right this time, Including the french is what will cripple the EU. Why? Because they still think they are #1 (what????), in charge and their s**t doesn't stink. The EU is doomed until the french realize that all three of the above are false.
en.wikipedia.org...
The European Union grew out of the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC), which was founded in 1951, by the six founding members: Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg (the Benelux countries) and (West) Germany, France and Italy. Its purpose was to pool the steel and coal resources of the member states, thus preventing another European war. It was in fulfilment of a plan developed by a French civil servant Jean Monnet, publicised by the French foreign minister Robert Schuman. On May 9, 1950 Schuman presented his proposal on the creation of an organised Europe stating that it was indispensable to the maintenance of peaceful relations. This proposal, known as the "Schuman declaration", is considered to be the beginning of the creation of what is now the European Union, which later chose to celebrate May 9 as Europe Day. The British were invited to participate in it, but refused on grounds of national sovereignty; thus the six went ahead alone. (See Text of the Schuman declaration (europa.eu.int...)).
Originally posted by StarBreather
Yes, and there are other countries still to vote. Actually, France had parties that didn't want the referendum (the "Yes!" side). In my country, at least all the parties agree on the referendum.
Article I-12 (how they define "shared competence"):
"The Member States shall exercise their competence to the extent that the Union has not exercised, or has decided to cease exercising, its competence."
And then, in Article I-14, just about everything falls under this category of "shared competence": social policy, agriculture and fisheries, transport, energy, freedom, security and justice, health, etc, etc.
They will want bigger taxes, and then they will grow in order to absorb more and more competences.
Imagine giving your democratic representative rights to politicians that escaped to Europe because they weren't good enough at home (like the current president of the European comission, he was a do-nothing, and now he is a yes-man).
Originally posted by centurion1211
Hey Ace, this person is 'reporting from the scene' and I'd say it doesn't sound like a real recipe for success, now does it. In fact, it kind of makes the EU sound 'incompetent' - sorry, couldn't resist on that one.
Of course you'll ignore this simply because it doesn't fit yor views.
Originally posted by SIRR1
All of you EU hopefulls just got stabbed in the back by France!
Now you know how we here in the United States feel about the French.
If I lived in Europe, I would ratify the constitution and leave out the French, plan your new EU government and do it with out the French.
The EU just got it in the arse!
U.S. Constitution
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Proposed EU Constitution
HIS MAJESTY THE KING OF THE BELGIANS, THE PRESIDENT OF THE CZECH
REPUBLIC, HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN OF DENMARK, THE PRESIDENT OF THE
FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF GERMANY, THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF
ESTONIA, THE PRESIDENT OF THE HELLENIC REPUBLIC, HIS MAJESTY THE
KING OF SPAIN, THE PRESIDENT OF THE FRENCH REPUBLIC, THE PRESIDENT
OF IRELAND, THE PRESIDENT OF THE ITALIAN REPUBLIC, THE PRESIDENT OF
THE REPUBLIC OF CYPRUS, THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF LATVIA, THE
PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF LITHUANIA, HIS ROYAL HIGHNESS THE
GRAND DUKE OF LUXEMBOURG, THE PARLIAMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF
HUNGARY, THE PRESIDENT OF MALTA, HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN OF THE
NETHERLANDS, THE FEDERAL PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF AUSTRIA, THE
PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF POLAND, THE PRESIDENT OF THE
PORTUGUESE REPUBLIC, THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SLOVENIA, THE
PRESIDENT OF THE SLOVAK REPUBLIC, THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF
FINLAND, THE GOVERNMENT OF THE KINGDOM OF SWEDEN, HER MAJESTY
THE QUEEN OF THE UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND NORTHERN
IRELAND,
Drawing inspiration from the cultural, religious and humanist inheritance of Europe, from which
have developed the universal values of the inviolable and inalienable rights of the human person,
democracy, equality, freedom and the rule of law,
Believing that Europe, reunited after bitter experiences, intends to continue along the path of
civilisation, progress and prosperity, for the good of all its inhabitants, including the weakest and
most deprived; that it wishes to remain a continent open to culture, learning and social progress; and
that it wishes to deepen the democratic and transparent nature of its public life, and to strive for
peace, justice and solidarity throughout the world,
Convinced that, while remaining proud of their own national identities and history, the peoples of
Europe are determined to transcend their ancient divisions and, united ever more closely, to forge a
common destiny,
Convinced that, thus "united in its diversity", Europe offers them the best chance of pursuing, with
due regard for the rights of each individual and in awareness of their responsibilities towards future
generations and the Earth, the great venture which makes of it a special area of human hope,
Determined to continue the work accomplished within the framework of the Treaties establishing
the European Communities and the Treaty on European Union, by ensuring the continuity of the
Community acquis,
Grateful to the members of the European Convention for having prepared the draft of this
Constitution on behalf of the citizens and States of Europe,
Have designated as their plenipotentiaries:
(list...)
Who, having exchanged their full powers, found in good and due form, have agreed as follows:
France is doing the right thing. The EU constitution will give too many power to Poland. That will result in the fall of Germany.
Originally posted by SIRR1
All of you EU hopefulls just got stabbed in the back by France!
Originally posted by AtheiX
France is doing the right thing. The EU constitution will give too many power to Poland. That will result in the fall of Germany.
We Germans should be thankful for France for what they are doing. They are saving us. If the constitution will be accepted then a Union empire under Poland's leadership will be built on the ruins of Federal Republic of Germany.
[edit on 27-5-2005 by AtheiX]
Originally posted by djohnsto77
Just look at the respective preambles of the U.S. vs. proposed EU Constitutions to see the stark difference
I think even you sminkey can admit there's a problem with this drivel your bureaucrats call a constitution!
I really applaud the Europeans for seeing this thing as it is, a piece of [insert explative]!
I really applaud the Europeans for seeing this thing as it is, a piece of [insert explative]!
Walter Jones, the Republican congressman for North Carolina who was also the brains behind french toast becoming freedom toast in Capitol Hill restaurants, told a local newspaper the US went to war "with no justification".
Mr Jones, who in March 2003 circulated a letter demanding that the three cafeterias in the House of Representatives' office buildings ban the word french from menus, said it was meant as a "light-hearted gesture".
But the name change, still in force, made headlines around the world, both for what it said about US-French relations and its pettiness.
Now Mr Jones appears to agree. Asked by a reporter for the North Carolina News and Observer about the name-change campaign - an idea Mr Jones said at the time came to him by a combination of God's hand and a constituent's request - he replied: "I wish it had never happened."
Although he voted for the war, he has since become one of its most vociferous opponents on Capitol Hill, where the hallway outside his office is lined with photographs of the "faces of the fallen".
"If we were given misinformation intentionally by people in this administration, to commit the authority to send boys, and in some instances girls, to go into Iraq, that is wrong," he told the newspaper. "Congress must be told the truth."
Originally posted by djohnsto77
Well I can assure you the U.S. Constitution will still be law for like 300 million people long after the last strips of your shredded EU constitution has been utilized by a hamster.
Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
I think even you sminkey can admit there's a problem with this drivel your bureaucrats call a constitution!
- This is simply ridiculous slanted nonsense. The problems curently being experienced are nothing to do with what you imagine them to be, actually.
Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
- Why do you keep making this incorrect and utterly ridiculous comparison with the US constitution?
Originally posted by StarBreather
Actually, they are.
An overlong text that gives free rein to bureaucrats is reason for suspicion, even on formal grounds. Even without reading 400 pages, something that starts with "His majesty XYZ" must be crap.
Face it: this so-called "constitution" is the creation of politicians that wouldn't stand a chance in their own countries. So, they want to create their own playground by other means.