Originally posted by jupiter869
only a very tiny proportion of them have been worthy
(by the standards of the Virgin Mary, Christ, or God) to
receive the gift of a miracle.
Jupiter, Jupiter, Jupiter. This thread reminds me
of the BTS Religion forum.
It's amazing to me
the lengths people go to, trying to nitpick Catholic beliefs.
The 'very tiny' number of miracles isn't as it seems. Those
are the ones that have been 'approved' by the Roman Catholic
Church as authentic. There are tens of thousands of alleged
miracles that are reported to Church authorities. They are then
sent through a very strict investigation. Those tens of thousands
that have been reported may indeed be miracles, but the reason
the church rejects them is that there is no way to prove them.
I'll use Lourdes as an example. Thousands and thousands go to
the baths at Lourdes every week. There are indeed miracles
reported when these people go. Not everyone is cured. But there
are cures. The people go to report these cures and they find that
the only way the church will have 'approved' the miracle as authentic
is if the people had done the following FIRST -
1 - Get checked by their local doctors and be declared 'uncurable'.
2 - Bring all medical evaluations, xrays, blood works etc.
3 - Get checked by the doctors in Lourdes who are attached to the
4. - After a complete check with the Lourdes doctors - including more
xrays, blood works, etc. ... be declared 'uncurable' by them as well.
5. - Go to the Lourdes baths and request the miracle from God.
6. - Get the miracle.
7. - Go back to the doctors and have another complete round of
check ups - including xrays, blood work, etc.
8. - Have the doctors say you have been cured of an incurable.
9. - The case then goes to Rome to go through 'the Devil's advocate'
where he will try to debunk the miracle. It's another indepth process.
The Devil's Advocate investigates the person, the doctors, the credibility
of the private doctors, the thoroughness of the medial work pre-miracle.
10. - if at ANY point anything is out of line - a forgotten xray, a blood test
that is inconclusive, a doctor that has malpractice suits against him ... if
ANYTHING comes up ... the miracle is deemed 'not worthy of belief' and
not declared a miracle. It could indeed be a miracle .. but it can't be
proven so it is not declared one.
Who the heck has the time, the money, or the desire to be hanging out
at Lourdes for weeks and weeks .. going through more tests? Certainly
not someone who is poor to start with, middle class to start with, or has
been paying cancer treatment bills for years.
Try telling the woman who has cancer throughout her body that the
reason it disapeared overnight is NOT because of a miracle just because
an xray was missing from the 'miracle investigation' package.
The same methods are used at Fatima. Very strict approval methods.
If it were any other way, people would point at the Catholic church and
claim that they were allowing anything to pass as a miracle just to trick
people. Geeeeze. Damned if they do and damned if they don't.
[edit on 5/26/2005 by FlyersFan]