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posted on May, 26 2005 @ 03:18 AM
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Hello all,

Last night (GMT+8 here) I was extremely surprised to see my name on the nominee list for ATSNN council member. While I am flattered by such an endorsement, for reasons of my own I sent a message to the staff through the help/gripe function to ask that my name be removed. The staff, busy as they are, have not had a chance to respond to me yet. Having already voted, I have no way to check if I have been removed or not, and thus, I have no choice but to declare my request openly, so as to prevent any who were to perhaps vote for me from wasting their vote.

I will not announce endorsements for any other nominees. I have my own views on who would be right for the positions, but your vote is yours, and I believe you should decide free of pressure or influence from others. I would like to extend my warmest thanks to those who nominated me, and to wish all of the remaining nominees the best of luck.

I am afraid that my withdrawal will be misinterpreted as disdain, so I would also like to make my sentiments clear regarding the ATS council member project. I think my message to the staff expressed it the best:


Hi folks,

Just a quick message to say that I am flattered by my nomination for an ATS council position, but that I must respectfully decline the nomination for reasons of my own. And so I ask that my name be discreetly removed from the nominations list. I have used the gripe/help avenue to avoid any drama.

Please do not take my withdrawal as a comment on the ATS council members idea itself. I hold high hopes for the success of the initiative and once again am greatly impressed by the willingness of you, the staff and admin, to go "above and beyond the call" to respond to the needs of the members, and to enhance the quality of the ATS community as a whole. My reasons, as I stated above, are personal and do not reflect on the endeavour, or the site, in any way.

Thank you again, and I look forward to watching the ATS community move forward into this new stage in its evolution.

wecomeinpeace


Again, I wish each and every nominee the best of luck and can only hope that those who truly want it and deserve it, win it.


[edit on 2005/5/26 by wecomeinpeace]




posted on May, 26 2005 @ 03:37 AM
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Goes to show, the nomination system was flawed.



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 03:41 AM
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Miles To Go

wecomeinpeace,

1. That's a cool avatar:



2. I respect your decision, and am seriously considering following suit. Offhand, I can think of at least a half dozen reasons why I would not want a job like this. If I think hard, I can double that number.

So why even bother?

That's what I've been mulling over today, even though, against a field of nine, well eight (I still don't think Valhall should have dropped for that reason, but her call) “big guns”, odd-layers are putting the snowball over me in hell's next match, so it's something of a moot question.

So I guess my public chest-beating is just some of my trademark drama, and well, if you're going to do drama, you might as well eat the scenery, baby.

Still, I wonder if this isn't one of those cases where “the living envy the dead”.

You come in peace.

Go in peace, friend.



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 03:56 AM
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Originally posted by DeltaNine
Goes to show, the nomination system was flawed.



DeltaNine just because some people don't want to be council people does not mean the system is flawed. It just means some people that were nominated don't have time or something and have stepped down.



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 04:08 AM
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Originally posted by Ycon

Originally posted by DeltaNine
Goes to show, the nomination system was flawed.



DeltaNine just because some people don't want to be council people does not mean the system is flawed. It just means some people that were nominated don't have time or something and have stepped down.





Yes, it does. People should have put their names forward, then the people vote on that. Then they vote on the positions.

Besides, we don't even know if these are people who led the voting. I haven't seen any figures anywhere.



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 04:39 AM
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Delta theres many ways they could of gone about getting nominees, but they chose to let members vote on who they thought would be good for these positions. If they went about it your way there would of been more people on the ballot and more confusion. I think nominations went good, many excellent members were chosen.

This is a trial period and I'm sure there will be many changes along the way. Everyone at ATS needs to give this a fair chance and not be so ready to call the system flawed or be worried if a councilor has a chip on their shoulder or if they can walk the walk.



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 04:40 AM
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Self-Demotion


Originally posted by DeltaNine
People should have put their names forward, then the people vote on that. Then they vote on the positions.

That might be better, but it's not unusual for systems of nomination to require that someone other than the candidate do the nominating.

While I think some of us (including me) were surprised to be nominated, those nominations were decided by votes.

That's the main reason I haven't withdrawn yet. While I am very skeptical of this whole ATS politics business, I also don't feel right thumbing my nose at those who voted for me.

It's kind of complicated, but it's also pretty simple, in my opinion.

Index Of Opacity


Originally posted by DeltaNine
Besides, we don't even know if these are people who led the voting. I haven't seen any figures anywhere.

I would also like to see some numbers, and don't know why they would be withheld.

One of the things I would like to see around here is more transparency.

Granted the staff has no obligation to be more open in how things like this are done, but I think being more open about things would solve a lot of problems and trust issues before they become problems and issues.

I am reminded of the abuses that have taken place in my country under the cover of “national security”.

Not all ATS business is a matter of “boardinal security”, and I wager that most is not -- although that mindset no doubt derives from respect for member privacy, which must be respected.

I don't sense a sinister agenda at ATS, just a desire to err on the side of caution for our protection.

Nonetheless, of all places, a website devoted to exposing both truth and lies should be as open about its dealings as it can reasonably be.

Gratuitous secrecy should be abandoned wherever it is feasible. It would be better for everyone. People get restless when they're left in the dark.

That's my opinion, anyway.



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 04:54 AM
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Reduce number of categories, combine some.

A number of people step forward, to announce their willingness to run, and under which category.
Members vote, results tallied. A primary of sorts.

The top 2-15 percent (number adjusted for the size of original pool),
are then presented in a general election.

something like that?



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 06:03 AM
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Now That You Mention It


Originally posted by spacedoubt
something like that?

Well, we're into it now, so I doubt the staff will change horses in the middle of this stream -- and I think that would be wrong, anyway.

However, and ironically enough, I am fairly sure that questions such as these will be left to the councilors once they're elected.

I seriously doubt anyone would want that job for very long, if it's anything like I anticipate it being, so I would expect the question of the next election and successors would be on the to-do list.

That and a whole bunch of other questions.

In every case feasible, I would hope the councilors would poll the members on matters such as these, or at least solicit suggestions.

Since that is, after all, what representatives should do.



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 07:19 AM
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Originally posted by DeltaNine
Goes to show, the nomination system was flawed.



Why are you being a bad person, for lack of a better word?



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 07:27 AM
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Originally posted by SpittinCobra

Originally posted by DeltaNine
Goes to show, the nomination system was flawed.



Why are you being a bad person, for lack of a better word?


SC...don't feel bad - it's not your fault that there is a lack of a better word.

Delta - the nominations were drawn up via a purely democratic process. Just because some of the names nominated have decided not to run does not point at a "flaw". What difference does it make if some nominated choose, for whatever reason, not to accept the nominations. Big darned deal! Isn't it a far better system to let the members nominate the list and the nominated decide if they want to run than to limit the members' selections to only those who voice they want to run?



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 10:45 AM
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My only problem with the nomination system is the number of withdrawals after the voting has started. It seems like every time I read a withdrawal announcement, it's, "Well, there's another vote wasted!"

My vote is counting so little, this feels like a Real Life election


Perhaps a little time should be taken to notify the candidates before the voting starts. Then those who withdrew wouldn't appear on the ballot at all.

[edit on 5/26/2005 by eaglewingz]



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 11:43 AM
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Originally posted by Valhall
Delta - the nominations were drawn up via a purely democratic process.

How do you know?

Delta, sure it's flawed- that's one of the beauties of democracy. Democracy is flawed, there just hasn't been anything better found.

Notice the heavy politicking on the sigs? I love it. Democracy in action. so much better than u2u cables positioning behind the scenes (which probably occurs anyway). This is 'in your face' stuff. The way politics are meant to be.

eagle has an idea- maybe the council will try to implement it



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 05:22 PM
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Originally posted by DeltaNine
Goes to show, the nomination system was flawed.




Well....fawed as it was....that does not hinder the process.
I am sure all who wish to withdraw will have their wishes granted.

I am sure that tosses a glitch or two for those who are organising this election........but it will all work out ok.
You never know unless you try right?
These are temp positions anyway.....this is all a trial run.........

VOTE.......and give the process a chance



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by Majic

While I think some of us (including me) were surprised to be nominated, those nominations were decided by votes.

That's the main reason I haven't withdrawn yet. While I am very skeptical of this whole ATS politics business, I also don't feel right thumbing my nose at those who voted for me.

It's kind of complicated, but it's also pretty simple, in my opinion.

Besides, we don't even know if these are people who led the voting. I haven't seen any figures anywhere.


For all this time I have kept quiet, in a sense I also see the venture a littler bit to unplanned.

I echo your sentiments Magic . . . due to the fact that my views are in the more radical side, I never though that my name would come out.

I hope that it will end there in the nominations.

When I sign for ATS my primary reason was to share views, never I had in my mind to hold any positions.

People needed to be informed before hand and the ones interested should have been allowed to show support so voters could then make their choices.

I still don't even know what the whole thing is all about.

Anyway, I got with this post a great weight off my chest.

Thanks Majic for pointing out a big flaw.

Val I did voted for you and for infinite, and was hart broken to see both you withdraw, that is why I can not bring myself to do that . . . like majic said is very complicated to explain.

I love everybody in ATS "occurs in different leves of love" he,he,he, I have enjoy being just a member . . . it gives me more freedom to express myself.

This is my two cents.

With love Marg6043.



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 05:52 PM
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Marg, you're a sweetheart. I'm so proud of my "twin"


You're my best ATS friend, and i voted for you because you're smart and you can handle it. I do respect your wishes not to get involved, though.
Do what feels right for you.
DG/



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 06:34 PM
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Maybe this is another ATS experiment to teach us a lesson. Like all of those fake posters that pop-up once in a while. After we all vote, some mod is going to come out from behind the curtain and spin the wheel of morality.


Wheel of Morality, turn and turn. Show us the lesson that we should learn.



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 07:45 PM
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Lesson Object


Originally posted by curme
Maybe this is another ATS experiment to teach us a lesson. Like all of those fake posters that pop-up once in a while. After we all vote, some mod is going to come out from behind the curtain and spin the wheel of morality.

I love the way you think. That would be quite the hoot.

However, a much better lesson would be to make sure we follow through with this, so we can learn the real lesson:

The curse of democracy is that you don't get the government you want, but the government you deserve.



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 07:47 PM
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Hey, wait a minute.....Where's the paper trail?!




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