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Are we a Fascist State Yet?

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posted on Sep, 6 2002 @ 08:15 AM
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The facts are disturbing:

1) We're lead by an extrememly secretive government - we are in an unprecedented point in time in American government with the number of law suits between branches of government for disclosure of information previously given freely

2) War & the industries that support it have been the SOLE growth sector of our GDP for over a year

3) The media is a willing propaganda arm to the government by both failing to broadcast the numerous protests that accompany the president's appearences, framing our military actions in only a favorable light, and scrubbing the syntax errors of Bush before posting transcripts.
They also fail to report that this president has: set a record in less than half his term in the FREQUENCY of fund raiser stops AND the amount garnered, the number of times he's spoken to the American people is a THIRD of the time he's been golfing, and he's been at his vacation spots a full 42% of his presidency.
YET, with all of the above by our Commander in Chief, they continue to spout 'We're at WAR'....hmmm? You mean FDR did all the above, worked 9 to 5 with a two hour lunch for a jog ( I know , he wished!) and prosecuted a war as the C in C like GW? And if Ari Fleisher is not the reincarnation of Josef Goebbals, I'll eat my hat.

Interesting Qoute:
"I do believe, with all sincerity, and with every patriotic fiber of my being that these people are fascists at heart. And I`m talking about the Italian model of fascism. They believe that the government should be run by a business elite, on corporate lines, that any kind of interference should be dealt with, in whatever way they can deal with it. They`re obsessed with their own power, they have utter comtempt for democracy, they have utter contempt for the constitution and if you continue to read all of what Bush says these days... you can see the evidence that came from his own mouth; the Bush Dyslexicon is full of evidence like this."

- Media Studies Professor Mark Crispin Miller

Listen:
www.wfmu.org...




posted on Sep, 6 2002 @ 03:23 PM
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1) The secrecy has been there. Be it executive privilege, Cheney's 'energy meetings' - certain things have been secret in the past. I don't know what exactly you're talking about but that Cheney/Energy thing comes to my mind anyway.
2) Sole growth huh? Housing market is doing well, auto sales, bio-med, etc. Were in a recession, in a war and our military and defense capabilities had been cut by the previous administration. Looks like were ok here, imho.
3) Media the propaganda arm of the government? Maybe in the Clinton years. I am convinced the mainstream media is liberal biased. AND there other news sources besides the mainstream sources, like the Internet, radio, books (all of which are doing very well these days as new sources).

Fascism I myself don't see it that way.

[Edited on 6-9-2002 by Bob88]



posted on Sep, 7 2002 @ 02:38 AM
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it's very difficult to come to any sort of answer concerning "Fascist" as this, like "Anti-Semite" or "Communist" in the past has simply become another ill-understood label.
The list of "facts" is less than convincing and surely needs some supporting data and a little evidence of clarity of thought.
It's hard to say which industries do NOT in theory support war -soldiers eat; sailors need uniforms, pilots visit bars, personnel need housing, warships need paint and so forth.
By definition: no one outside government is in any position to know if that government is "extremely" sercretive: if they are -and one knows: then they obviously ARE NOT.
I fancy that Mark Crispin Miller should stick to Media Studies - he appears somewhat indifferent to the need for facts, figures, logic and clarity.
I should like to see anyone present any sort of case that showed (a) this brief idiot's guide to Mussolini's regime ("government should be run by a business elite, on corporate lines") has any basis in history (b) that there are any convincing parallels between Mussolini's constitutional, foreign, social and economic policies and the USA now or at any other time.



posted on Sep, 7 2002 @ 06:45 PM
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Nonsensical garbage. And anyway, even if Shrub was directing us toward fascism (against your liberal commy desires, huh?
), the road was paved to be smooth as glass by the 8 years of Klinton, with his judicial activist appointees, executive orders that were not only against personal freedoms, but circumvented the legislative branch so as to bypass the "people", and the really nasty U.N. agreements, such as handing over unprecedented amounts of public land to the U.N.
You Bush-hating liberals are not honest with yourselves to admit that Klinton set us up for a major fall. One that might just happen, even if it means that the Shrub has to be removed from the White House to make it so; Dick, after all, is firmly ensonced in the "Illuminati", just as 41 was/is. The agenda, after all, is thicker than blood.
Or is Shrub as far removed from the agenda as some like to think; he did sign Agenda 21, after all.



posted on Sep, 8 2002 @ 11:06 PM
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Been there. Seen that. I visited East Germany during the time it was under Communist control and as an Army brat, I've seen and lived near other fascist countries.

No, we're not there. Not by a long shot.



posted on Sep, 10 2002 @ 09:31 AM
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Perspective people, perspective. 'Yet' was meant to infer a vector towards that nasty end result of fascism. On secrecy, the Bush administration has gone that extra mile; of course there has always been executive privilege and 'what we don't know or never did' or as Estragon puts it "if they are -and one knows: then they obviously ARE NOT". What I am talking about are the volumes of previously public information under past presidents-task force meeting-and access to the thoughts AND words directly from OUR president, either being severely curtailed or cut off completely.
Look up the economic data on the first part of this years GDP; growth - off the top of my head I believe it was 1.5%. OF that, it was primarily driven by industry directly related to the 'war' effort. Having my own company for the past 10 years, I can tell you that it's not a simple OR random process to be able to sell to the government; vendors are a select few. Especially under Republican stewardship, since they have gone back & forth from government positions to government contractor and back again. If we had the ability to look at the Carlyle Groups portfolio ( yes, that group consisting of Bush, the Saudi ruling family, the Bin Laden family & others like James Baker & Carlucci - and yes, Poppa Bush was with Bin Laden's brother at a meeting the day before 9/11), we'd know exactly the vendors of choice. That's why Halliburton has the SOLE SOURCE CONTRACT for ALL the facilities management & construction for the Army AND Navy - a first in our history.
As for our "military and defense capabilities had been cut by the previous administration", total crap. Show me the proof. Show me how we came up short on anything needed to prosecute the Afgan exercise. Show me the data to counter Jane's Magazines data that stated our military strength is 25 times greater than the COMBINED 'Axis of Evil'. Bush 'took' office and completely reversed what was already in play on the counter terrorism front - he recalled our deployed ordinance & personnel from the Gulf, he halted the drone flight tracking Bin Laden's movements, his DOJ refused ALL FISA warrant requests, he ordered all investigations into the Saudi's & Bin Laden's halted by our Intelligence community, and on 9/12 while the country was grounded, he allowed a private jet to fly around the country in order to collect the Bin Laden's , refusing the FBI's request to question them, stating that "the Bin Ladens are above suspicion".
The Department of Justice, under a Christian Fundamentalist appointed by Bush & God it seems, ignored ALL pleas from the outgoing administration to FOCUS on terroism. They ignored the Pheonix memo. Their focus was on sex & drugs while Ashcroft was recommending that they cut very substantially the courterterrorism budget that had been put in place by the Clinton administration. All that has been in the press and all that is accurate.
THERE IS NO LIBERAL BIAS IN THE CORPORATE OWNED-COMPLICIT MEDIA!!! I had provided links to several non-partisan sites showing how the Corporate Media is owned by a small handful of monolithic companies. Bob & Thomas - you guys need to acknowledge you have a CONGENITAL HATRED of Clinton and that it taints whatever objectivity you have. I confess that I hate Bush I & II and try mightily to look for something good that they've done....I'm still looking. I've said it before: Drudge, Rush, NewsMax, Free Republic and Fox News ARE NOT UNBIASED NEWS SOURCES! Rabid Right Wing propaganda mills. Corporate Media supported and covered up for Bush because they knew he'd serve their interests; just two days after the attack, the FCC's Republican majority moved like lightning to "review" the last few rules prohibiting the corporate media from merging absolutely--an enormous favor whose unseemly haste was justified by Michael Powell ( Yup, Colin junior), the top commissioner.
Thomas the one accurate thing I'll agree with you on regarding governing models is that Commy & Fascist are enemy systems.
Estragon, I fully concur with your assessment that labels become ill-understood and thrown around flippantly( look no further than Thomas's use of 'Liberal' & 'Communist'). But regarding Miller, please read further than the surface quote. And, all definitions I found are accurate; here is Encarta Dictionary's:

Fascism [f shzzm ] noun
dictatorial government of Mussolini: a system of government practiced by Benito Mussolini in Italy between 1922 and 1943 that was characterized by dictatorship, centralized control of private enterprise, repression of opposition, and extreme nationalism

Thomas, on that Illuminati thing, I am very interested in someones perspective on it; I know nothing about it. Are they the root cause to our country's actions?

[Edited on 10-9-2002 by Bout Time]



posted on Sep, 10 2002 @ 06:48 PM
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Labels are important, as they indicate who or what one is dealing with. They are just as important as the words cat ordog.
I am a conservative Christian republican. The only word in that label that may change is republican, as who knows what their position on various topics will be in 20 years. By telling you what I am, or what label to pin on me, you have a genneral idea of my beliefs and opinions.

Bout Time, the "Illuminati" not only has influence on this country, but the other industial and post-industrial countries as well. Both major teams of my prefered sport (politics) are controlled by the Agenda (sorry, Bob, but its true. Even our team.). The democratic party advances the agenda much quicker than the republican party (outwardly), and is used whenever we are most mentally numbed, but when we start to awaken and feel like something bad is happening (difficult to tell, as we are so dumbed down now), they throw in the republicans. The republicans make all kinds of traditional sounds and promise to set us on the track that'll take us back to the 50's era, but nothing really gets down. But at the end of the day, the country is another step closer to the loss of individual stewardship, and the to the control of those who are already the power behind the power.



posted on Sep, 11 2002 @ 08:56 AM
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It's a devious crowd control mechanism: the appearance of Freedom of Choice. It energizes partisans with the feel of righteousness, yet all the while, the outcome is predetermined, just the 'vehicle' and 'driver' are interchangeable.
Does anyone else feel that the media frenzy on child abduction ( which statistics show the contrary; they're significantly DOWN) is nothing more than a precursor push of chip implantation? I've seen the ads for Child Finder, based on GPS. How about DPT inoculation? OR, West Nile Virus deaths actually being something else?



posted on Oct, 17 2002 @ 01:22 AM
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Originally posted by Bout Time
It's a devious crowd control mechanism: the appearance of Freedom of Choice. It energizes partisans with the feel of righteousness, yet all the while, the outcome is predetermined, just the 'vehicle' and 'driver' are interchangeable.
Does anyone else feel that the media frenzy on child abduction ( which statistics show the contrary; they're significantly DOWN) is nothing more than a precursor push of chip implantation? I've seen the ads for Child Finder, based on GPS. How about DPT inoculation? OR, West Nile Virus deaths actually being something else?


I'm definitely seein that...there's some kid in England who had a chip put in them, becoming the first child to have one. I don't remember too much about it, so you may want to do a search. It's crooked, I tell you...



posted on Oct, 27 2005 @ 04:23 PM
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Originally posted by Bout Time
Interesting Qoute:
"I do believe, with all sincerity, and with every patriotic fiber of my being that these people are fascists at heart. And I`m talking about the Italian model of fascism. They believe that the government should be run by a business elite, on corporate lines, that any kind of interference should be dealt with, in whatever way they can deal with it. They`re obsessed with their own power, they have utter comtempt for democracy, they have utter contempt for the constitution and if you continue to read all of what Bush says these days... you can see the evidence that came from his own mouth; the Bush Dyslexicon is full of evidence like this."

- Media Studies Professor Mark Crispin Miller

Listen:
www.wfmu.org...


Moreso now then 2 yrs ago, I am seeing more andmore of this truth come to fruition. Bush isn't misspeaking when he says those things that make you raise your eye brow and then retract, he's speaking the truth!
Those are all very disturbing points, and I wanted to bring this up again because it was buried back 100 or so pages.. I like to go back and see how many issues back in 2002 are still commonplace today. It makes me wonder, how many years actually have to go by until it finally sinks into our numbskulls that this administration is BADNEWS for America. If these were my friends my mother would do everything in her power to make sure I didn't hang around w/ these dudes...



posted on Oct, 27 2005 @ 05:53 PM
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en.wikipedia.org...


The word "fascist" ( or "fascism") is sometimes used to denigrate persons, institutions or groups that would not describe themselves as fascist and that do not fall within the formal definition of the word. As a political epithet it has been applied to persons and groups on the extreme left, the extreme right and most points in between. It has also been applied to persons of many religious faiths, particularly fundamentalist groups, and it has been used to label a broad range of persons and institutions. Its use as an epithet generally serves to imply that the supposed "fascist" is unreasonably authoritarian. At best, it is considered mildly offensive, although many persons find it highly offensive and inappropriate.

By 1944, the term had already become so widely and loosely employed, that British essayist and novelist George Orwell was moved to write " ... the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox hunting, bullfighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else."

During the late 1960s and 1970s, it was popular for many leftists to describe a wide range of governments and public institutions as fascist. In the 80's the term was used by leftist critics to describe the Ronald Reagan administration and recently George W. Bush's. In her 1982 book "Beyond Mere Obedience" radical activist and theologian Dorothy Soelles, coined the term "Christofascist" to describe fundamentalist Christians and following the September 11, 2001 attacks a number of right wing commentators, particularly in the United States, began using the term "Islamofascism" to describe Militant Islam.


is dis the reason why u keeping mention are we Fascists yet? Are we Fascists yet? o brother. its the best way to get attention and to put some people on the defensive.



posted on Oct, 31 2005 @ 02:24 PM
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Why do I care if someone in cyberspace gets put on the defensive?
I DO CARE that my country is a Fascist state, that the same POWERFUL FAMILY that bankrolled the last POWERFUL FASCIST STATE is now running MY COUNTRY.
If Exxon, Wall St and Pharma are all making record profits quarter after quarter and laws are further abolished or diminished that govern them while millions more fall below the poverty line, while military "intervention" has the US in every port globally.....if those factors don't fit into the fascist framework, you're suspending logical review of the facts.

NOTE:

I got to go back & start digging these old posts out too.....the ways things have played out since is chilling.



posted on Oct, 31 2005 @ 09:25 PM
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I believe we are on our way. The main paradox of living in this country is that the US acts in an extremely fascistic manner externally (toward foreign countries) but only resorts to internal oppression when absolutely necessary. If things go as the powers that be would like, they wont have to, cos they have us convinced of our freedom and superiority.



posted on Oct, 31 2005 @ 09:43 PM
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The media, despite being corporate controlled has a firm liberal bias in most cases. I do not know why if the corporations were in the government's pocket why they would advocate such liberal nonsense. It makes no sense whatsoever and therefore it can be derived that the governement does not control the media.

The US may act in an imperialistic manner but that does not mean it is a fascist state. This could mean it was an empire or other political structure but this imperialistic manner does not automatically mean it is a fascist state.

[edit on 31-10-2005 by fatcat2]



posted on Oct, 31 2005 @ 09:57 PM
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I think it's a matter of opinion. If you look at the 14 Characteristics of Fascism as defined by Political scientist Dr. Lawrence Britt :

The 14 characteristics are:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high,as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

6. Controlled Mass Media
Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation , or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed .

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

We certainly have some and are at least approaching others. So, if we aren't there yet, we're headed there.



posted on Nov, 1 2005 @ 08:28 AM
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This is all just more leftist alarmism in my opinion. I'll start to be concerned when bout time, etc. start to disappear onto the cattle cars, headed for the camps. BTW, interesting that extremists on the left side somehow end up using the same tactics for thought control.

And TC, instead of spelling it "Klinton", maybe one of our more artistic types could come up with a way to spell it using a hammer and sickle instead of the "C".



[edit on 11/1/2005 by centurion1211]


cjf

posted on Nov, 1 2005 @ 08:37 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
We certainly have some and are at least approaching others. So, if we aren't there yet, we're headed there.


Why not ‘headed away’? The United States could easily be defined as decreasingly fascist if looking at comparisons decade after decade. Would not, as an example, the 1940’s, 1950’s and 1960’s really reflect more a ‘fascist state’ compared to current day moving from these alleged ‘14’ tendencies.


Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I think it's a matter of opinion. If you look at the 14 Characteristics of Fascism as defined by Political scientist Dr. Lawrence Britt :


Fascism as a ‘negative’ connotation is not necessarily correct either. By strict conventional etymological definition, parenting of children is ‘fascist’. Fascism is an over used term which cast too wide of a brush to paint, let alone be used as a political indicator.

The most noticeable indication of a fascist alignment by a party or government is the separation and persecution of a particular class of people, (usually the bourgeois denying the proletariat) based loosely upon beliefs or some superficial endemic qualities.

Fascism has many forms and adheres to no constants. No government/political party is ever any one specific definable constant structure.

These ‘fourteen points’ were written strictly for an audience, and Britt found them or vice versa.

Noteconcerning the '14 points' that are seemingly always present on this site: .

The source article as originally written by ‘Lawrence Britt’ for the ‘Free Inquiry Magazine’ Vol 23; no.2 pg. 20. (which is published by The Council for Secular Humanism) Has been noted and recognized as a distortion of an article originally written by Umberto Eco, ‘Eternal Fascism: Fourteen Ways of Looking at a Black Shirt’ c.1995.

In fact Britt is this guy.

A word on Britt:



The last place you might expect to find a progressive would be the executive offices at Allied Chemical, Mobil, or Xerox Corp. But, throughout a business career that spanned four decades, Laurence Britt never stopped challenging the status quo. And at the age of 64, he has become a leading voice on the left.

Britt, who held positions at all of the above companies, traces his interest in history back to his boyhood in suburban Philadelphia. His politics were clarified during his years studying business at Northwestern University in the early 1960s.
(link to full article)


No political scientist.

Q&A portion of same article above



City: Looking at the world right now, do you consider the US a fascist state?

Britt: No. By definition it's a democracy. My article is a cautionary tale. This is what I've researched; this is what I've seen; this is what's happened in the past. You can draw your own conclusions: No, this has nothing to do with the United States; or, there are some disquieting trends here that we certainly have to be aware of, and the powers that be exhibit many of these characteristics, and we'd better damn well be careful



.



posted on Nov, 1 2005 @ 08:43 AM
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Heretic:

All of your examples were also used by the U.S.S.R. - a communist dictatorship and probably the worst mass-murdering regime in the history of the world. In item #3, just change the labels and take away religion in item # 8. Reverse #9 and #10. Otherwise what's the difference?

So, what has your post proved?

[edit on 11/1/2005 by centurion1211]



posted on Nov, 1 2005 @ 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by centurion
Fascism as a ‘negative’ connotation is not necessarily correct either. By strict conventional etymological definition, parenting of children is ‘fascist’. Fascism is an over used term which cast too wide of a brush to paint, let alone be used as a political indicator.


If you were paying attention to what the original author of this thread was discussing you would notice a point pertaining to the Italian model of fascism. They believe that the government should be run by a business elite, on corporate lines, that any kind of interference should be dealt with, in whatever way they can deal with it. They`re obsessed with their own power, they have utter comtempt for democracy, they have utter contempt for the constitution and if you continue to read all of what Bush says these days... you can see the evidence that came from his own mouth; the Bush Dyslexicon is full of evidence like this."

I would also like to direct you to the 3 points bt was discussing which imo easily fall into line with the idea of a fascist government. Go ahead an label it extremist left wing alarmism, but it won't negate the fact that these events are and have been taking place 'repeatedly' within this administration. And I am alarmed that you deny the unconstitutional acts of this current administration. If it was a liberal government in power I would be just as critical, but this is the government that is in my face right now and i will not bend over and just take whatever they want to spoonfeed my arse like what you apparantly have agreed to do with your own behind.


[edit on 1-11-2005 by TrueLies]



posted on Nov, 1 2005 @ 09:25 AM
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Originally posted by cjf
Why not ‘headed away’?


We may have been close in the past, but when I look over the past 30 years (and especially the past 5 years), I see an increase in these characteristics and I believe technology and governmental control is at a stage where this time, it could actually work.

IN RECENT TIMES:

Only since 9/11 have I noticed current nationalism becoming so strong.

Only since 9/11 have the Patriot Act and other human rights issues (torture, incarceration) come increasingly into the public concern.

Only since 9/11 have fear and terrorism been so intensely spoon-fed to the public.

Only since 9/11 has the military been so focused on and only since Katrina have they been brought into private security (New Orleans).

Only in the Bush Administration have abortion and homophobia become such big issues.

Only in the Bush Administration have the media been controlled to the extent that they are today.

Only since 9/11 has FEAR been drilled into our heads every day!

Only in the Bush Administration has religion become part of the government.

Recently, corporations have more power, more money and the gap between the rich and the poor is widening daily.

Only in the Bush Administration have professors been arrested for speaking their minds about political issues. Free speech is being attacked.

Only in the Bush Administration has there been a necessity to even discuss whether or not torture should be banned! Think about that. Hmmm… Should we ban torture? And the President of our nation is fighting to say NO!!! Torture the bastards! People are being held without charge. Civil liberties and the Geneva Conventions are being trampled, not to mention the Constitution.

Cronyism and Corruption… Must I elaborate?

I’m convinced, and there are many indications, that both the 2000 and 2004 Elections were fraudulent.

Sure some of these characteristics have been present at other times, but all of them together? No, I don't think so.



By strict conventional etymological definition, parenting of children is ‘fascist’.


We are not children, though. And do not need to be ‘cared for’ in such a controlled manner. In fact, we have certain unalienable rights to our freedoms and liberties.

Regardless of where these points came from, who wrote them or whether you call them Characteristic of Fascism or Traditionalism, they’re very dangerous trends to our liberties and they are becoming more and more apparent to me in the USA today.

By the way, I didn’t first see this list on ATS. I saw it elsewhere before I joined ATS.

You may attack the source all you like, that just means you’re uncomfortable with the truth contained in it. If you would like to argue against Fascism in the US today, counter the points instead of disputing the source.


Originally posted by centurion1211
All of your examples were also used by the U.S.S.R. - a communist dictatorship and probably the worst mass-murdering regime in the history of the world. Otherwise what's the difference?


Exactly. And you’re comfortable with this?



So, what has your post proved?


It proves nothing. The VERY FIRST LINE of my post is “I think it's a matter of opinion.” One thing it does prove, though, to me at least, is that some people get very irritable when confronted with something that contains an uncomfortable truth.


[edit on 1-11-2005 by Benevolent Heretic]



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