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Aurora plan

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posted on May, 27 2005 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by veritas 7
But a little research into this aircraft. you will find that it is a real concept, that is just not been put into practice!

Thank you for your contradiction.

By that single statement, this is what you said "It's a good idea that works, but was never really built."

Anyways, look robert, as I have said before, you can't prove it to us, you can't show us pics of it or anything, unless you can, and if you can, I would very much appreciate for you to show me, until then, I have nothing else to do but believe it is just a fantasy.

Like I have stated before, it is nice that you believe in it, noone is telling you otherwise, but until you or someone can provide SOLID proof of it's existence, we can only believe that it is a fake.

I have heard the X-33 theories, my personal opinion? More lies made up to blind the public.

Shattered OUT...




posted on May, 30 2005 @ 12:55 PM
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This is my first posting at this website. I joined specifically because I live not far from Edwards and I have seen some very interesting aircraft over the years.

Re: Aurora

I have not seen this craft closer than about 3000' but I have seen it many times. It looks like a small version of the stealth bomber. It is identical to the stealth bomber from every angle I have observed it but smaller. I have
only seen it this close 2X.

I am a pilot and I know it was flying unimaginably fast. I grew up Palmdale so I have seen the Blackbird many times and this thing blows the SR71 away.

I have not seen it in about 10 years. It used to fly out of Edwards on cloudy days or when there was heavy overcast.

It has a distinctive double sonic boom. The first time I heard it I was working on a ladder and I was almost knocked off from being so startled. It can do a 50 mile diameter circle in about 4-5 seconds. I estimate that the first shock wave must be about 50 miles behind the craft. The second boom occurs a few seconds later.

The first boom sounds like someone setting off a case of dynamite in the open air and there is a discernable pressure wave you can feel when it hits.

I have never seen the rings on a rope exhaust signature but this thing is so damn loud that I could hear it take off about a hundred miles away. I once read that the name Aurora is play on words and was based on the sound of the engine. You can hear it when it takes off or turns but it is silent if it travels towards you.



posted on May, 30 2005 @ 01:23 PM
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IMO, the Aurora will be able to leave the atmosphere and fly at the edge of or in space and will be an instrumental pawn in transforming the USAF into an "aerospace force".

It might incorporate both conventional and anti-gravity propulsion techniques


Dont flame me because these are just my impressions.



posted on May, 30 2005 @ 05:02 PM
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What I know so far:

Aurora: Project name for a myriad of projects, including the B-2 bomber.
Official designation: F-121 Sentinal, it has a small weapons bay for when a target has to be taken out immediatly.

The F-Designator is common on secret projects and the project MIGHT have started as a fighter propossal.

I have a feeling the model on www.fas.org and/or www.globalsecurity.org are very close to what this a/c looks like.

Other aircraft in the Aurora project are more than likely the rumored TR-3A Black Manta, TR-3B Astra, both exceptional aircraft based on top-secret technology.

There is probably alot more interesting aircraft being tested at Nellis, Groomlake and Edwards airbase, remember the Bird of Prey, that was an aircraft that suprised us all.



posted on May, 31 2005 @ 08:04 AM
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Originally posted by Sam Adams

Re: Aurora

I have not seen this craft closer than about 3000' but I have seen it many times. It looks like a small version of the stealth bomber. It is identical to the stealth bomber from every angle I have observed it but smaller. I have only seen it this close 2X.


A mini Stealth Bomber? Hmm, this sound like the discriptions I have heard for Northrop's Failed ATA (Navy A-12 Avenger II) concept. Perhaps after the A-12 Avenger program was cancelled in 1991, Someone decided to revive the Northrop concept for another mission. Where have you been seeing this aircraft? Maybe it can give us a clue about who might be using the aircraft and for what. Hold on folks, this is worth a closer look!



posted on May, 31 2005 @ 11:18 AM
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I have seen actual sat images of the "aurora" on the ground at Groom Lake.

There is a set of photos out there, that shows "aurora" on the ground in front of a hangar either being prepped for a flight or returning from one, in the same image you can see one of the janet air planes off to the far right. And If I recall, there is also a smaller aircraft like a T-5 or something similar that is relatively close the easement where the "aurora" was sitting.

And I have heard "Aurora" leaving out of somewhere east flying torwards the ocean ( I live quite a bit inland and its not a commercial or military A/C from Ontario or George or March etc..), it makes this loud thundering rumble as it accelerates up to alltitude. It is quite amazing to hear. It sounds like a military A/C on full afterburner but the echoing and almost the 360 degree effect make it not only hard to pinpoint the source but if you circle around outside you can eventually tell where the sound is going away.

I have heard plenty of jets taking off and flying overhead with and without AB. And this sounds like a plane that is a 1,000 times more powerful. Its really an unreal experience when you hear it.



posted on May, 31 2005 @ 04:56 PM
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Robertfenix, well yes, any links to these photos?

Anyway to prove it was the Aurora? If there were pics of the Aurora on the net, they would have been deleted by now. I doubt it was the aurora, we don't even know what the aurora looks like exactly, I don't even believe the Aurora is a single aircraft. Everything you made was purely speculation, there are many aircraft out there that make large rumbling noises with their engines, like the F-15C, that thing is a noise maker.

Hey, could you atleast give a reference to a website or anything?

Shattered OUT...



posted on Jun, 1 2005 @ 06:03 AM
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Originally posted by ShatteredSkies
Robertfenix, well yes, any links to these photos?

Anyway to prove it was the Aurora? If there were pics of the Aurora on the net, they would have been deleted by now. I doubt it was the aurora, we don't even know what the aurora looks like exactly, I don't even believe the Aurora is a single aircraft. Everything you made was purely speculation, there are many aircraft out there that make large rumbling noises with their engines, like the F-15C, that thing is a noise maker.

Hey, could you atleast give a reference to a website or anything?

Shattered OUT...


I Agree! Most of the information I've seen, seems to lean toward the Idea that Aroura is a program invoving several different classified spy planes. While not proven, this theory explains why there are so many different descriptions of Aroura.



posted on Jun, 1 2005 @ 08:19 AM
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Now I could say, that picture in this topic is a FAKE. I was just wondering, how many people will stay blamed. I modified it from bottom part of XB-70 Valkyrie. Here is scanned original documentation of North American. More here.

And because there are so many fakes as Aurora or TR-3B, I created new topic called "real secret triangels".



BTW: ghost - good point about designation Aurora in plan. I will be more precisious next time



posted on Jun, 1 2005 @ 10:50 AM
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Originally posted by Sam Adams
I have not seen this craft closer than about 3000' but I have seen it many times. It looks like a small version of the stealth bomber. It is identical to the stealth bomber from every angle I have observed it but smaller. I have
only seen it this close 2X.

I am a pilot and I know it was flying unimaginably fast. I grew up Palmdale so I have seen the Blackbird many times and this thing blows the SR71 away.


Ok, first off, welcome to the boards. I dont want to put you off being here but I want to take you to task about a few things you have said here that either just dont add up, I think you may be mistaken on or I simply just dont believe.


Originally posted by Sam Adams
It has a distinctive double sonic boom. The first time I heard it I was working on a ladder and I was almost knocked off from being so startled.

I estimate that the first shock wave must be about 50 miles behind the craft. The second boom occurs a few seconds later.

The first boom sounds like someone setting off a case of dynamite in the open air and there is a discernable pressure wave you can feel when it hits.


Ok, lets start there shall we.

"Sonic booms are created by air pressure. Much like a boat pushes up a bow wave as it travels through the water, a vehicle pushes air molecules aside in such a way they are compressed to the point where shock waves are formed."
"These shock waves form two cones, at the nose as well as at the tail of the vehicle. The shock waves move outward and rearward in all directions and usually extend to the ground. As the shock cones spread across the landscape along the flightpath, they create a continuous sonic boom along the full width of the cone's base. The sharp release of pressure, after the buildup by the shock wave, is heard as the sonic boom."
"The nose and tail shock waves are usually of similar strength. The time interval between the nose and tail shock waves is primarily dependent on the size of the aircraft and its altitude. Most people on the ground cannot distinguish between the two and they are usually heard as a single sonic boom. As the time interval increases, two booms are heard. A small fighter-type aircraft about 50 ft long will generate nose and tail shock waves of less than a tenth of a second (0.1 sec). The ear usually detects these as a single sonic boom."
"The interval between nose and tail shock waves on the Space Shuttles, which are 122 ft long, is about one-half of a second (0.50 sec), making the double boom very distinguishable."

www.madsci.org...

So we see here that you are wrong in a few places and misguided in others.

1) A double sonic boom is generated by the nose of the aircraft, and also by the tail, but you have already stated that this aircraft is an almost identical smaller brother of the venerable B-2 Spirit Stealth Bomber. Now I will post a picture just to refresh your memory if you really wish, but as far as I remember, the B-2 has no tail, so my first question to you is what is causing the second boom ?

2) You state that the first Sonic boom arrived, followed by the second a few seconds later ? In the example above we see a fighter size aircraft of roughly fifty feet in length producing a double sonic boom separated by 0.1 secs, the space shuttle which is 122 feet long, has double sonic booms separated by 0.5 secs. Now if we extrapolate your premise of a few (Minimum 2) seconds:

122 - 50 = 72 feet
0.5s - 0.1s = 0.4s
This equates to an increase of 18 feet per 0.1 second delay in the second sonic boom.

Thus to have a delay of 2 secs, we arrive at a vehicle length of 392 feet. Now my maths may be massively flawed, but to me, thats a big vehicle, and definitely bigger that the B-2, which is only 69 feet long, thus your vehicle would have to be 5 - 6 times bigger than a Stealth Bomber to produce a sonic boom two seconds apart, even if we ignore the problem with the lack of a tail (see q1)


Originally posted by Sam Adams
It can do a 50 mile diameter circle in about 4-5 seconds.


Okay, Okay, (Trying to wipe the silly grin off my face) lets look at this one shall we ?!

3) As a pilot you should be well versed in observing objects traversing in three dimensions, with good estimation of speed and distances so lets take these figures as concrete

Diameter = 50 miles
Circumference of a circle = PI x D
Value of Pi = 3.1415 (rounded)

Thus the circumference (distance travelled) is 50x3.1415= 157.075 miles

You stated that it did this speed in 4 to 5 secs so in one second its done (157.075/5) 31.415 miles per sec. Now lets simply put that in miles per hour

31.415 x 60 x 60 and we get the grand and vastly improbable speed of 113,094 miles per hour !!!

(Speed of sound 761mph at sea level)

so thats 113,094 / 761 = MACH 148 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sh*t dude, thats on fast MO FO !


Whats More, and just for fun, check this website out www.msu.edu...

This 50 mile diameter is equal to 80.5 km, and you need to convert to milimetres (80,500,000). the speed of rotation is 12 rpm (60/5) which gives you a combined Force of 12983.04 G

Jeez, better hope its a UAV eh ?

As I said above, I am aware this is your first post and I dont want to flame you out, but as you can see, you have made some pretty wild and exagerated claims here.



[edit on 1-6-2005 by Argus]

[edit on 1-6-2005 by Argus]



posted on Jun, 1 2005 @ 11:13 AM
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Wow, I am not a math wiz nor am i an expert in fligh dynamics, but that was a great post! Way above!



posted on Jun, 1 2005 @ 11:25 AM
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Hey, im not an expert in either, but I saw those figures and the alarm bells went mad. Anyway, many thanks for your praise




posted on Jun, 1 2005 @ 12:49 PM
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Shattered I don't know how many times I have to say this but "aurora" is whatever you want to call it as the name for the actual aircraft has never been released as it remains a top level classified project.

So call it Aurora or F19 or the Fastmover or Silent Dark or Dark Angel whatever, it does not matter, because presumably none of us have the actual name for that bird.

But it does exist.

And no, the sound is not from an F-15C I have seen those as well as the SR-71 on full AB, Super Tomcats, F-16C, A-10's, A-6's, S-3's and a whole host of other military aircraft up close and personal and in flight and none of them sound remotely close to what I have heard on two seperate occassions.



posted on Jun, 1 2005 @ 03:24 PM
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I'm not sure what the Aurora is other than a high altitude recon plane. The ram jets were developed on the Y12A, SR71 where the drone was fitted for CIA recon flights over sensitive global areas. This drone was not a success. Later the drone strap down area on the SR71 was used for the newly develope ram jet. Seems the blackbird had to attain speeds of mach 2 in order to ignite the newly developed ram jet at the time. Two questions come to mind at this point:
1. with the Aurora working and I have seen the contrail, why is the decommissioned SR71 in the air again? I worked on the APQ 99 Forward Looking Radar as well as the APQ 102 Side Looking Radar by Goodyear, the rubber radar? just curious as to why the SR71 is needed to fill the void if the Aurora is live and well.
2. Have they over come the problem with the ram jet to where it can sufice at low speeds as well as high? Or does the USAF, Skunkworks, have dual power plants installed? One for low speed and one for extremely high altitude of mach six speed and faster. Thanks for the info; greatly appreciated.



posted on Jun, 1 2005 @ 04:41 PM
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Alright 1)Robert you have not yet provided solid proof for the existence of the Aurora, merely stated so. So bleh, we laugh at you.

2)Ok Jose, I think you're thinking of the MD-21 Drone? Because from what I know, the only drone attached to the SR-71 Blackbird was the D-21.

3)Ok, we do not know why they brough the Blackbird into service again, only that it was decomissioned once, brought back, and decomissioned again. All of this supposedly took place around the same time as the Aurora was believed to have been cancelled as a project(only a portion of it, the rest remained active). The most widely known project, the one capable of mach 20, was cancelled.

Robert, do not post again arguing that it exists unless you have solid proof, we understand that you believe it exists, you don't need to tell us 4 times. If you have any proof you want to post to help us believe, then so be it, post it, if not, well we will still remain skeptical.

P.S. This does not include other conspiracy sites with people who agree with your assumption and make up information.

Shattered OUT...



posted on Jun, 1 2005 @ 09:13 PM
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I wasn't posting here to appeal to a hairy guy sitting in his underwear playing with a calculator trying to shoot down what I directly observed.

I actually have quite a few things to contribute to this site but will probably never do it.

You are simply wrong about the sonic boom issue, I do not claim to understand this phenomenon but I have observed it and heard it at least a dozen times. There is a long lag between the booms.

Clearly there are principles here which have not been fully explored or discussed since velocities like this are terra incognita and not observed or understood by those outside government research circles.

If I misjudged the diameter of the circle, excuse me if the milk from your Power Ranger's cereal comes spraying out your nose. Have you actually seen anything like this?

Are you interested in hearing about things that actually happened? Or is your game to snipe at people who would were looking for safe place to discuss things they had directly observed?

And before you answer my post, put on some pants for gads sake!



posted on Jun, 1 2005 @ 09:56 PM
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Sam, the fact is that you probably are wrong... you know? drugs are bad... and affect the capacity of distinguish things...the guy has DEMONSTRATED that you are wrong, so accept it and don't spell sh*t about someone that just has make some calculations about the (totally wrong) data you provided. The only guilty here is you for telling lies...

EDIT
Yes, I'm a hairy guy too, what kind of person are you to use it as an insult?? probably you are much... (I will reserve my opinion about you for a better chance


[edit on 1/6/05 by Chemapeich]



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 07:15 AM
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Discussion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-skshn)
n.
:Consideration of a subject by a group; an earnest conversation.
:A formal discourse on a topic; an exposition.



Originally posted by Sam Adams
I wasn't posting here to appeal to a hairy guy sitting in his underwear playing with a calculator trying to shoot down what I directly observed.


Ok, let me just get this straight. Why did you post? Surely the reason for posting on this forum is to discuss your experience, examine it in depth, gather the opinions of others and hopefully gain some insight into it and the existence or otherwise of a highly classified project which has been adorned with the moniker of ‘Aurora’?

I am not trying to 'shoot down' your observations; I am merely trying to understand them in greater detail and to present areas where I believe that you may be mistaken or wrong. Nowhere did I state that I am right and that you must change your views, I merely presented some reasoned and well rationed arguments, backed up with links to well respected sites or showing my workings where necessary, to counter your observations.




Originally posted by Sam Adams
I actually have quite a few things to contribute to this site but will probably never do it.


I am glad to hear that you have many things to contribute to this discussion board, and I would certainly encourage you to post as much as you can. The more people we can get onto the boards, the wider the opinions and experiences of the collective and hopefully this will enrich the knowledgebase here. However, I would also suggest that you tone down the hostility with which you reply to other posters. We aim for a reasoned and balanced approach towards any discussion, attempting to keep emotion and inane posts to a minimum

I hope that you bring many other observations to the boards, but if you respond to other posts with the same hostility that you have with mine, then I wish you luck in your future discussions, the resultant arguments that you will get into with other more volatile posters, and the ensuing negotiations and dealings with the Moderators which will surely follow.




Originally posted by Sam Adams
You are simply wrong about the sonic boom issue, I do not claim to understand this phenomenon but I have observed it and heard it at least a dozen times. There is a long lag between the booms.


Ok, I have presented you with a reasoned and informed argument as to why I disagree with you, and you have come back with "you are simply wrong". Now come on, If we are to have a discussion about your sighting, you cant just dismiss other peoples point of view like that, not without presenting some sort of evidential findings that back up your case. I dont purport to have an in depth knowledge of the complex theories behind supersonic travel and aerodynamics, but I found it very simple to find papers and documents to back up my argument, perhaps you could do the same? If you are struggling there are many well respected posters (of which I must stress that I am not one!) of whom you can request help.

Perhaps there were two aircraft travelling near to one another and the one was not visible from your standpoint? This seems a much easier and plausible explanation?


Originally posted by Sam Adams
Clearly there are principles here which have not been fully explored or discussed since velocities like this are terra incognita and not observed or understood by those outside government research circles.


Ah Ha, the old 'you don’t know what is going on behind those TOP SECRET doors' argument eh? Well I can tell you this much, the Defence Establishment has developed some wonderful new materials, furthered the technology of mankind in many ways, yet I am unaware of any time whereby they have managed to re-write the laws of Physics. If you can highlight one occasion where they have managed to prove Mr Einstein and all the other guys wrong, I will hold my hands up and give you credit.




Originally posted by Sam Adams
If I misjudged the diameter of the circle, excuse me if the milk from your Power Ranger's cereal comes spraying out your nose. Have you actually seen anything like this?


Ha Ha Ha Ha, thanks very much for providing me with the best laugh I have had all day. In fact, the only thing that I did after reading your post was to put down my glass of Montrachet (Look it up if you are unsure, but I would recommend it!) and do some quick mental arithmetic, not on the calculator as you surmised.

I must also say that I agree that you may have misjudged the diameter of this turning circle, But even if you were off by a factor of ten, and it were only a five mile Diameter, that’s still a speed of Mach 14!? And the G's wouldn’t change?! I do however, worry for the safety of fellow air travellers in your local airspace, let alone any passengers you may carry in you profession as pilot if you cant tell the difference between five and fifty miles ?!

Its just that when someone posts an observation, has it questioned, and then admits to having misjudged or mis-observed, you can see why people become more and more sceptical of the whole thing

And as for your other question, no I have never observed anything remotely like this, and am thus intensely interested in any and all observations. However, It is downright lies and hoaxes in the past that have made me sceptical of any and all observations, thus I tend to question any and all areas where I feel there are uncertainties.

Indeed, I think it doesn’t say much for the Defence Departments covert testing abilities if they have allowed a casual observer to view this highly classified project on more than one occasion. In fact im sure you agree that its exceedingly worrisome that anyone can get within 3000feet of this top secret programme !?




Originally posted by Sam Adams
Are you interested in hearing about things that actually happened? Or is your game to snipe at people who would were looking for safe place to discuss things they had directly observed?


I am unaware of any sniping that I have conducted, i merely saw fit to question some of the areas of your observation that I felt needed clarification or examination. I am very interested in hearing any and all observations and would question every single one of them!

What do you mean by 'safe place to discuss’? I have tried to discuss this sighting with you and have been met with nothing but hostility, or are you looking for the kind of board where the only kind of responses that you get are 14 year old kids saying stuff like "Awesome Dude" or "OMG!" or "Man, you rock" in hushed and admiring tones? If so, I can guarantee that you are in the wrong place!

If however, you are interested in a balanced and reasoned discussion, with some of the most informed posters (again, I stress, not me, see Waynos or Intelgurl for examples) who often have an inside track on the aerospace industry then this is definitely the place. However, I warn you that any discourse involving those guys will result in a far tighter examination and questioning process than I have given. Those are the guys that really rock around here!




Originally posted by Sam Adams
wasn't posting here to appeal to a hairy guy sitting in his underwear



Originally posted by Sam Adams
And before you answer my post, put on some pants for gads sake!


A major problem is the assumptions you make, you assume that I am hairy, and you assume that I am male!? did you assume that this aircraft you saw was Aurora ?

And more importantly, what is it with your unnatural and slightly worrying fascination with my pants ? I can assure you that all the time that I am posting I am in fact fully clothed. I expect that Mr Freud and his followers would have many things to say about your fascination with semi clothed or naked hairy men working on their computers.



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 10:10 AM
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This will be my last posting at this place. This is not a safe place to post info. I own property directly below what used to be a heavily used flight path between Edwards and Groom Lake via the Sierras.

Just 5 months I ago I watched as they tested a new composite plane that looked like a Rutan creation with a double boom tail and huge wingspan right over my head. It was white with a teardrop shaped compartment hanging under wings. There were at least 6 of these aricraft being tested at the same time with fighter escorts.

I'm sure Argus knows all about this being the resident illuminati.

Honestly, the things I have posted here so far do not stretch credulity at all. My little trial ballon served it's purpose. I have seen a lot of amazing things over the last 20 years.

You will never hear from me again.

Argus you are a complete and total idiot that knows nothing. If you had any real knowledge about this subject you would know what I stated is absolutely true. Clearly you are the BMOC. I bow to your status and acknowledge your growing base of fawning sycophants.

The difference between me and you is that I keep my mouth shut about subjects that I have no direct personal knowledge of. I have seen enough things outside of what I understand to know better than to shoot down other people that have experiences that differ from my knowledge base.
The more I learn I realize the less I know.

I love aircraft and flying. For myself, I would encourage a new person posting at this site with a story like mine, not blow them out of the water.
I am not on a mission to inform the world of what I know. Just looking for a few kindred spirits with similar experiences that we can talk about and try to come up with some plausible answers.

Over and out.



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 11:29 AM
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Originally posted by Sam Adams
This will be my last posting at this place. This is not a safe place to post info. I own property directly below what used to be a heavily used flight path between Edwards and Groom Lake via the Sierras.

Just 5 months I ago I watched as they tested a new composite plane that looked like a Rutan creation with a double boom tail and huge wingspan right over my head. It was white with a teardrop shaped compartment hanging under wings. There were at least 6 of these aricraft being tested at the same time with fighter escorts.

I'm sure Argus knows all about this being the resident illuminati.


Unfortunately I dont know anything about these aircraft that you are describing. Did you manage to get any pictures or video of them ? They dont sound like anything that I have heard of, either known and in development or hypothetical.

I can assure you though that when my campaign for world domination comes to fruition I will get hold of the plans for you and mail them to you





Originally posted by Sam Adams
Honestly, the things I have posted here so far do not stretch credulity at all. My little trial ballon served it's purpose. I have seen a lot of amazing things over the last 20 years.


I am sorry but your first post stretched credulity past its breaking point, and then just kept on stretching ?! All I did was ask a few simple questions about your original observation in areas where I thought you were either wrong or mistaken, and you are behaving like the six year old who takes their football home because they cant be the quarterback ! I dont understand what you mean by your 'trial ballon' so I cant possibly comment




Originally posted by Sam Adams
You will never hear from me again.


That is a shame as as I said above, the more people we have on this website providing their views, the better. But, its a free world (well, depending on where you live) and i am sure that there are hundreds of other sites out there which you can become a productive member of.




Originally posted by Sam Adams
Argus you are a complete and total idiot that knows nothing. If you had any real knowledge about this subject you would know what I stated is absolutely true. Clearly you are the BMOC. I bow to your status and acknowledge your growing base of fawning sycophants.


Now Now, insults are not called for and never were. I have as much knowledge about this subject as the next man (unless its Intelgurl), however, I am not blithely going to just accept as gospel the word of someone who posts this kind of statement which is so blatantly incorrect that even a humble layman like myself can spot it.

Originally posted by Sam AdamsIt can do a 50 mile diameter circle in about 4-5 seconds

However, if you have any specialist knowledge in this area, please please enlighten us, after all, that is what these boards are for, so that individuals can educate and inform those of us who lack the understanding. I would be happy to read any papers or discussion documents that you can point me to to help me get the 'real knowledge' that you so have so aptly demonstrated that you possess.

I have no idea what you mean by BMOC so I cant respond to that one, but im sure that you arent being too pleasant, possibly insulting me and definitely insulting others with your 'fawning sycophants' remark.




Originally posted by Sam Adams
The difference between me and you is that I keep my mouth shut about subjects that I have no direct personal knowledge of. I have seen enough things outside of what I understand to know better than to shoot down other people that have experiences that differ from my knowledge base.
The more I learn I realize the less I know.


No, it seems that the difference between you and I, apart from the command of the queens language, is that I make it my priority to gain further understanding and knowledge of areas in which my understanding is lacking. I am not content to mildly sit back and accept whatever I am told by someone for whom I have no knowledge of and thus have little respect for. If you come out and tell me now that you are the deputy chief test pilot for the Lockheed corporation, and back it up with proof, then I will respect your views and observations and see tham in a new light, but until you establish that you have a greater knowledge or are better qualified than I, I will continue to challenge your observations and assumptions.

If I were to tell you that I had seen the Loch Ness Monster, and that she had a neck the size of a house, and that I had seen it many times, would you just happily sit back and accept it, or would you challenge my claims, asking for evidence (Photos, video etc etc) ? Too right you would challenge me ! And I am only doing the same.




Originally posted by Sam Adams
I love aircraft and flying. For myself, I would encourage a new person posting at this site with a story like mine, not blow them out of the water.
I am not on a mission to inform the world of what I know. Just looking for a few kindred spirits with similar experiences that we can talk about and try to come up with some plausible answers.

Over and out.


I believe that I did encourage you in my very first post and in my subsequent post ?


Originally posted by Argus
Ok, first off, welcome to the boards. I dont want to put you off being here but I want to take you to task about a few things you have said here that either just dont add up, I think you may be mistaken on or I simply just dont believe.......................



Originally posted by ArgusI am glad to hear that you have many things to contribute to this discussion board, and I would certainly encourage you to post as much as you can. The more people we can get onto the boards, the wider the opinions and experiences of the collective and hopefully this will enrich the knowledgebase here.


Now that certainly seems like encouragement to me. I guess you and I have differing understandings of what a discussion board is and what they are here for. However, if you are purely searching for a few individuals who have experienced something just like you, and limit any discussion to your nice, tight little club then how can you possibly hope to get a well balanced and informed view of this occurence.

I apologise if your first experience here has clouded your view of these boards, I urge you to reconsider leaving ATS, instead, if you feel you have to, just make use of the ignore button and you will never have to hear from me again. ATS is just too valuable an information tool to walk away from and there are many well informed posters who can help you with your search for information.

I will be asking a Mod to look at this discussion to determine whether I have acted inappropriately, or been unfair on a new poster, but as far as I can see, all I did was to ask a few questions, and where will any of us be if we cant do that ?!

[edit on 2-6-2005 by Argus]




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