Originally posted by twitchy
Sabat-work, Listen to yourself, you're sitting there telling me that that you have to have the permission from the grand lodge, then claim in the
same breath they are your equal. Permission/equal... Degrees, Shriners, Poobahs, whatever you want to call it, you answer to somebody, period. What
thell kind of organization doesn't have a hierarchy? The first two degrees are lower than a third degree, that is a hierarchy. Step UP to Grand
Lodges verses Joe Blow Lodges, Hierarchy. Christ man, buy a theasarus. Look up Head Honcho, cohceese, or Poobah. You gonna tell your worshipful master
to sit down? Get real. Reality. The negative connotation of freemasonry is the fault of people like you who have a poor understanding of the
functionality their own esotericism. Operative, speculative, I'm sure the difference in the two has nothing to do with structure eh?
Heh. You really just don’t get it, do you? I’m beginning to wonder if you ever will. Regardless, there is a flaw in your argument that I intend to
Hierarchy, eh? Well, just what does hierarchy mean? Let’s see:
n. pl. hi•er•ar•chies
1. A body of persons having authority.
a. Categorization of a group of people according to ability or status.
b. The group so categorized.
3. A series in which each element is graded or ranked: put honesty first in her hierarchy of values.
a. A body of clergy organized into successive ranks or grades with each level subordinate to the one above.
b. Religious rule by a group of ranked clergy.
5. One of the divisions of angels.
Well OK then. Now that we’ve cleared that up, let’s rewind for a sec. Twitchy, correct me if I’m wrong, as I would hate to be putting words into
your mouth, but I think you are asserting here (and you have demonstrated it by the picture you posted) that the “hierarchy” you keep going on
about has to do with degrees
. No one is denying the fact that there are officers in Freemasonry, all the way from Blue Lodge to the appendant
bodies. Each body has their own officers, for the purpose of administration, and carrying out certain duties or jobs. The Master presides over the
lodge meetings, decides when the lodge will meet for that year, and he also appoints some officers (Junior/Senior Deacons, Treasurer, Secretary, etc.
if I recall correctly. Please, someone let me know if I am in error about this.). There are three duly elected
officers in the lodge; the
Junior Warden, the Senior Warden, and the Worshipful Master. Now, I’m not sure as to the ins and outs of the duties of each of these positions, as I
am an outsider, but I do know this: The Master is the Presiding Officer. Master is a title; it doesn’t mean that everyone must do exactly as he
says, when and where he says to do it. It just doesn’t work that way.
The way you’re talking, and going by the graphic you posted, you are insinuating that first, the degree structure has something to do with rank,
power, or authority, which it certainly does not, and second, the hierarchy is of a “I’m-higher-rank-than-you-so-you-have-to-do-what-I-say”
nature. Both insinuations are, of course, wrong.
In Lodge, the officers have certain jobs to do. As I don’t have any first-hand experience in lodge meetings, I can’t tell you what each office
entails, but I can give you examples. The Master, in addition to presiding over meetings, schedules the meetings, oversees things like when and where
the lodge will do fundraisers, appoints members to do investigations of new Candidates, things of this sort. It’s not like the Master has all the
brothers of the lodge doing his bidding like it’s some kind of military unit. He has a job to do. He is the administrator of the Lodge, so to speak.
Now as far as the Wardens, I don’t really know what their jobs are, other than the fact that if the Master is unable to attend a meeting for some
reason, the Senior Warden will preside, etc. Also I know that the Junior Warden is charged with planning the meals and such. As for Grand Lodge
officers, well I really don’t know, but I think we can safely assume that it is a very similar situation. So you see, the whole “hierarchy”
thing in the context that you are suggesting just isn’t there. We know by the definition posted above that there is in fact a hierarchy, but no
different than any other organization. What Seb so adamantly denies is that this hierarchy has anything to do with degrees or pecking order, or
whatever. No one is saying that there aren’t officers, in fact whenever I see posts from Masons stating something about this supposed hierarchy of
degrees or whatever, they always say “The only hierarchy in Freemasonry is that of the lodge Officers.”
Also, it is important to note that nothing important happens in the lodge without the membership
, not the Master himself, approves. This is
done with a democratic voting process, with each member having one vote, and also the opportunity to speak his piece about why or why not he thinks a
certain matter should or should not be passed.
So in short, the hierarchy is merely an administrative tool to get the things done that need to be done, and to do it in an orderly fashion. Pretty
simple for someone who’s not wearing “conspiracy goggles”.
Now to address this
Originally posted by CPYKOmega
Well If you need to know I was starting to like this thread. Until Sebatwerk here turned it into a soap opera just like every other thread. It was a
humorous thread.. until you 2 ruined it.... yet again.
Excuse me, but I think it was your pal twitchy who picked this particular fight. If you expect us to just be silent
when this happens, well, frankly that’s too bad for you. Not gonna do it. I was trying to goof off and have a good time, but your boy just
wouldn’t leave it alone. It’s really too bad , it might have been quite hilarious.
You claim to be true masons, yet true masons are supposed to keep their mouths shut when dealing with people who oppose you.
? I know that in the FC degree the initiate is charged not to let his zeal for defending the fraternity cause him to act in such a way
as to be dishonorable (I’m paraphrasing from memory, so forgive me any small inaccuracies), but I don’t think anyone here has crossed that
I know you will respond with a "clever" remark, but I don't care.
This is what you will probably say. "You have no clue what masonry entails... if you did you wouldn't post this sort of thing... blah blah...."
Amazing what you think you “know”, isn’t it?
If you truly are masons and care about not only yourselves, but the entire community as a whole... then you should help people... that is the
true nature of what real free masons are. To help and to guide people into the right direction. Your current "power trip" regarding masonry and
all of your egocentric remarks, show us what your true inner soul really thinks of the world.
Well, I can honestly say that if someone shows an inclination to learn
, that’s exactly what will happen. If someone comes here and
immediately starts posting lies, saying “I know
this” or “I know
that”, and refuses to acknowledge the posts authored in an
attempt to correct them, they get dealt with. Sorry if you don’t like it.
I am glad that you tried to make a thread that was humorous.... but just like you have said in your own words... you have failed.
I don’t think I failed as much as some people hijacked my thread, and we rolled with it. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. Sue me.
I don't usually get this mad about something on ATS, but I had to say what I really though of these masonic threads.
As is your right. I have a right to say what I think about what you said, too.
Regarding if someone called my mother a slut.. as mentioned earlier in this thread. I would calmly talk to the person telling them to stop.
But I fail to see how that analogy applies to this thread.
And if they kept on, and kept on, and kept on, and kept on, and kept on, and kept on, and kept on, and kept on, and kept on, and kept on, and kept on,
and kept on, and kept on, and kept on, and kept on, and kept on, and kept on, and kept on, and kept on, and kept on, and kept on, and kept on, and
kept on, and kept on, and kept on, and kept on, and kept on, and kept on, and kept on, and kept on, and kept on, and kept on, and kept on, and kept
on, and kept on, and kept on, and kept on, and kept on, and kept on, and kept on, and kept on???
You 2 should read my poem entitled 33 here on ATS in the Collaborative Fiction section.... I know you guys would like it.
Maybe I will.