>>>>I'm actually a VERY generous person. But you fail to realize that >>>>Freemasonry is what it is and that will not change. Freemasons don't >>>>want it to change. As a matter of fact, many Freemasons resent the >>>>changes that have occurred in the past 30 years, and that is why >>>>there is such a big push to go back to a "traditional" form of Freemasonry.


Who pays you to stand here all day and reply
the most endoctrinated babbles i've heard this side
of Vatican.



>>>For the last time, Freemasonry is a PRIVATE organization that asks >>>NOTHING of outsiders, so quit asking of it.



Than get you #kkinbg symbols out of everyone's dollar bill !!

Shheeesh...


Cedrix Phi

Originally posted by Centiment
Who pays you to stand here all day and reply the most endoctrinated babbles i've heard this side of Vatican.

And who do you think I've been indoctrinated BY? Freemasonry doesn't indoctrinate its members, so I'm interested to see where you'll go with this.

>>>For the last time, Freemasonry is a PRIVATE organization that asks >>>NOTHING of outsiders, so quit asking of it.

Than get you #kkinbg symbols out of everyone's dollar bill !!

They're not. The all-seeing eye is a symbol used by MANY organizations, including the U.S. Treasury. So what the hell are you talking about?

[edit on 15-7-2005 by sebatwerk]

this is crazy. you sound like a madman. This has gone from a discussion on esoterics to a paranoid argument about U.S. currency. unbelievable.

i cant believe this thread is still open...it's gone to obsession.

Originally posted by umwolves123
i cant believe this thread is still open...it's gone to obsession.

I can't believe that someone dropped the f-bomb and is still allowed to post here.

There is someone in the NWO forum who claimed that Freemasons are the "kings of secrecy". I don't understand how ANYONE can say this when all Freemasons keep secret are modes of recognition. They can't prove otherwise, but they still believe it no matter what.

Seems to be a recurring theme here...

Originally posted by sebatwerk
There is someone in the NWO forum who claimed that Freemasons are the "kings of secrecy". I don't understand how ANYONE can say this when all Freemasons keep secret are modes of recognition. They can't prove otherwise, but they still believe it no matter what.

Seems to be a recurring theme here...

Just to play Devil's advocate, it is somewhat erroneous to say that all that is kept secret, or private, if you will, are modes of recognition. I think it is reasonably safe to say that ritual and the intricacies of initiation to the various degrees are also kept under wraps... not saying that that's a bad thing, just saying...

>>>>>Freemasonry doesn't indoctrinate its members, so I'm interested to see where you'll go with this.




I can't. That would be indulging in a study of character that I'm not allowed to do.


I'll speak about me:


I love astrology. I love tarots.

I don't go on sites screaming all days against those who say that it is crap.

I'm totally open to doubt and ideas of what people have to say about it.

I can be passionate about things, but I always need to explore these passions.
Question them.


I see the world as if flying above in a space rocket.
I don't want to belong to anything and am very worried about process
of identities and how that can be harmful.


I think everyone in the world should change sex for a few days:
try something else. Don't engulf yourself in any certainties. Ever.


That last line is my reply to
this site's motto "deny ignorance"...which
assume that certainties can be prevailed.


This way of perceiving the world will never be the wisest.





>>>>>>>eye is a symbol used by MANY organizations, including the U.S. Treasury.


Historic gapping. hmmm...


Washington being a freemason + Pyramid on dollar bill ?

That is the most spread rumor ever about
that bill. I am sure things will be cleared out
in time by historians, after it's done it's time
through fiction.


About conspiracies:
As we live in an age (call it aquarius) where
soldiers question more and more the orders that they
are given (as you can witness in the movie Farenheit 911),
I really doubt that any world force could impose themselves easily.




Ced Phillipe




"In times of political wreck the chivalries rule, not the kings."

Originally posted by Centiment
>>>>>>>eye is a symbol used by MANY organizations, including the U.S. Treasury.
Washington being a freemason + Pyramid on dollar bill ?

That is the most spread rumor ever about that bill. I am sure things will be cleared out in time by historians, after it's done it's time through fiction.

But Washington didn't create the symbol! He had NOTHING to do with it! Franklin had very little, if anything at all to do with it. Someone once posted a while back regarding the Great Seal's design, started by Franklin and a few non-masons, then radically changed by the U.S. Treasury and non-masons to the way it is now later in the 1800s. So NOW what do you think?

Originally posted by The Axeman
Just to play Devil's advocate, it is somewhat erroneous to say that all that is kept secret, or private, if you will, are modes of recognition. I think it is reasonably safe to say that ritual and the intricacies of initiation to the various degrees are also kept under wraps... not saying that that's a bad thing, just saying...

Most jurisdictions have no rules against masonic ritual being available to the public. So far, California is the only jurisdiction I've seen that still keeps it's ritual secret. Besides indvidual lodge business, which is no difference than keeping business meetings private, the only thing most masons are required to keep secret are modes of recognition.

What does fraternity, charity and esotery has to do with business meetings ???


Maybe freemasons are the base of capitalism (oops...sorry...
not supposed to discuss politics), with templars starting the banks
and all.


Maybe National Treasury is the biggest bank ever ?


And we're suppose to think that a link
between it and masonry is impossible ?


I'm gonna wait a serious historian to answer that, sebat,
I am not going to believe your word in that issue.



Cedric Phi

Originally posted by Centiment
I'm gonna wait a serious historian to answer that, sebat,
I am not going to believe your word in that issue.

Why don't you do us all a favor and hold your breath while you wait?

Originally posted by Centiment
sebat,
I am not going to believe your word in that issue.

Again I'm inferring. So your only purpose is to disrupt? You post on topics that you know Masons are going to reply to but you won't take what they say at any value. Why bother then?

Don't bother to answer that, I already know the reason.

Would I get in trouble if I posted a picture of a troll, or maybe a fruitcake? How about just a purple starfish?

Originally posted by sebatwerk
Would I get in trouble if I posted a picture of a troll, or maybe a fruitcake? How about just a purple starfish?

I think you already know the answers to those questions.

Aw, c'mon, Seb. You know as well as I do that the ritual in most jurisdictions is kept private, whether it's under obligation or not. You and I both know that, and you and I both know the reasons for it. There are many jurisdictions that still work mouth-to-ear, and many others that use monitors that only reveal certain portions of the ritual, to serve as a "go-by." Why go through all the trouble if it's not intended to be kept private?

Now you know me, I'm not trying to be obstinent here, but I think we can call a spade a spade, don't you? No need to be evasive.

Originally posted by Centiment

I'm gonna wait a serious historian to answer that, sebat,
I am not going to believe your word in that issue.

Cedric Phi

Where is Masonic Light when you need him?!

[edit on 7/18/05 by The Axeman]

Originally posted by The Axeman
There are many jurisdictions that still work mouth-to-ear,

You know when I was given this forum, I knew squat about Masons. I'm glad at times that I was given it, like now, I got that. Then there's times , which I'm sure are about to follow shortly.

Be careful you guys, if a person doesn't buy into conspiracy the average person can glean for themselves from your words.

Originally posted by The Axeman
Aw, c'mon, Seb. You know as well as I do that the ritual in most jurisdictions is kept private, whether it's under obligation or not. You and I both know that, and you and I both know the reasons for it. There are many jurisdictions that still work mouth-to-ear, and many others that use monitors that only reveal certain portions of the ritual, to serve as a "go-by." Why go through all the trouble if it's not intended to be kept private?

I'm honestly not sure how many jurisdictions keep their rituals private along with their modes of recognition. Keep in mind, also, that modes of recognition are used and described quite frequently in masonic rituals, and may be part of the reason for parts being kept secret.

Originally posted by sebatwerk
I'm honestly not sure how many jurisdictions keep their rituals private along with their modes of recognition. Keep in mind, also, that modes of recognition are used and described quite frequently in masonic rituals, and may be part of the reason for parts being kept secret.

I'm just trying to make you work for it, bro. You know I didn't mean anything by it.

I am fairly certain that Texas is one of those jusrisdictions that keeps the ritual private. I know there is alot of memory work, and I don't believe any of it is ever to be written down. Not sure, but I'll find out soon enough.

Originally posted by The Axeman

Originally posted by sebatwerk
I'm honestly not sure how many jurisdictions keep their rituals private along with their modes of recognition. Keep in mind, also, that modes of recognition are used and described quite frequently in masonic rituals, and may be part of the reason for parts being kept secret.

I'm just trying to make you work for it, bro. You know I didn't mean anything by it.

I am fairly certain that Texas is one of those jusrisdictions that keeps the ritual private. I know there is alot of memory work, and I don't believe any of it is ever to be written down. Not sure, but I'll find out soon enough.

My lodge (Il.) operates very much the same way.