It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

"Masonic" Handshakes and Other Nonsense...

page: 24
1
<< 21  22  23    25  26  27 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 10:52 AM
link   
"grand hailing sign of distress?"
____________________________

Which brings me to this obvious conclusion.....Freemasonry has infiltrated
the ranks of professional football, as this is the signal/sign that signifies a
successful field goal attempt in the NFL!!!
....Talk yer way out of that one
Seb................




posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 12:35 PM
link   

Originally posted by mrfixit
I wondered how long Truth would appear to be interested in actually learning what Freemasonry was all about before he failed to resist the temptation to toot his own horn. He claims to be a Biblical Scholar but I doubt Truth could name all the Seven Deadly Sins without looking it .....

It's a teetotal waste of time and energy.

That's my 2 pennies .....


It's a very good thing your two cents doesn't mean anything !

BY the way-Your insults mean absolutley nothing to me and other members. It just shows your lack of knowledge and ignorance about the subject !

I never said I was a bible scholar so please don't lie about something I never said.

You my friend are way to quick to judge.

Unfortuently it is a waste of time. I have presented truth with sources of backing in regards to every point that I have made. If you are unwilling or incabale of understranding the truth put before you, then there is nothing more that I can do.

The Word of God is very clear ! There is no two ways about it !

If you are a christian and have fallen for the deceit within the lodge it is nobody's fault but your own ! You have the sciptures in front of you. God commands us as christians to test the spirits. You have just decided to ignore that part.

Just remember- Ignorance is NO EXCUSE is Gods eyes.

Good luck with your personal journey of "becoming a better man " Sound Familiar. It's the premise of all your teachings withing the masonic church that goes against the teachings of Christ !

Truth



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 01:20 PM
link   

Originally posted by Truthisoutthere
Unfortuently it is a waste of time. I have presented truth with sources of backing in regards to every point that I have made. If you are unwilling or incabale of understranding the truth put before you, then there is nothing more that I can do.


You wanna know what was a waste of time? Taking the time to try and have an actual conversation with someone pretending to be interested in doing the same, but actually only wanting the opportunity to make him opinion known and to toot his own horn. You had NO intention of having an educational discussion!



The Word of God is very clear ! There is no two ways about it !


Can you prove to us that the bible is indeed the word of God, and not just something made up by man? What makes you believe that the Bible wasn't just put together by a group of wise men, without any kind of communication with Christ or God? Be mindful of your answer, lest you seem to be yourself deceived.



If you are a christian and have fallen for the deceit within the lodge it is nobody's fault but your own ! You have the sciptures in front of you. God commands us as christians to test the spirits. You have just decided to ignore that part.


You have utterly and completely failed to show us that there is ANY kind of deceit going on in a masonic lodge, and have not even attempted to demonstrate how Freemasonry's teachings are incompatible with Christianity.



Good luck with your personal journey of "becoming a better man " Sound Familiar. It's the premise of all your teachings withing the masonic church that goes against the teachings of Christ !


Good God! Are you EVER going to take the time to demonstrate how this is true? Or are you just going to repeat it over and over, without ever backing it up with some kind of fact or example? You keep making the same claims, but when it comes time to walk the walk, you spill out some mumbo jumbo that makes no sense and quickly change the subject.

Like Axeman said: what you do is the equivalent of a kid punching another kid from behind, then quickly running away before the other kid has a chance to pound the first one to the ground. And as the kid runs away, he's falsely tooting his own horn and exclaiming "Yeah! I kicked his BUTT!" :shk:


[edit on 18-6-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 01:27 PM
link   

Originally posted by lashlarue

"grand hailing sign of distress?"
____________________________

Which brings me to this obvious conclusion.....Freemasonry has infiltrated
the ranks of professional football, as this is the signal/sign that signifies a
successful field goal attempt in the NFL!!!
....Talk yer way out of that one
Seb................


That is actually not the signal, but rather just one step in a series of motions. If you are seeing the image from Duncan's Ritual Book, which is the only one Ive ever seen used on the web, then you are actually seeing that step in the sign slightly misrepresented. The arm position isn't completely correct, at least not in my jurisdiction of California. It might be different in other places, but I doubt it.



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 05:58 PM
link   
Seb,

I think, as many people have said already, that trying to "discuss" Freemasonry vs Christianity with TIOT will only cause you to travel in circles. Since it's obvious that TIOT is not open minded enough for discussion, all it's going to do is get your blood pressure up :p

I too came back to bang my head against the wall one last time, just to see if it hurt... And yes it was just as painful as I remembered.....



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 07:17 PM
link   
SEBA- You can call this a waste of time if you wish. But the fact that I am a Christian, I have tried to take my time to point out the conflicts between Masonry and your own personal walk with God so that you will not be separated from GOD. This was the topic at hand. Every time that I brought something specific up, you reluctantly backed out and refused to answer the questions ? I know why. It is very obvious to me and other Christians abroad.

The problem is you don’t have an answer. You and some of the other members claiming to be a Christian Masons, sadly pull out the same maneuver. You pull out the rhetoric from Freemasonry 101-

It’s not a religion ? False- 1.) Freemasonry is a Religion-Proven through the definitions
provided through the Websters Dictionary. 2.) It is also a cult- Proven through the definitions provided through the Websters Dictionary. 3.) All the basic origins of the teachings of Masonry are nothing but lies. Even the Masonic Bible has been tampered with, added too and taken away from: All signs of Herecy !

Freemasonry tells us to worship “A” Supreme Being which doesn’t go against the Christian God. NOT TRUE-False !

Freemasonry requires its members to believe in the existence of a Supreme Being and also to believe that there is only One God. Freemasonry refers to its god as the Great Architect of the Universe. It teaches that all men, of all the various religions, worship the one God, simply using a variety of different names. It is on that basis that Masons may be Hindus, Moslems, Buddhists, or men who profess to follow Jesus. Freemasonry requires a belief in the existence of A Supreme Being, but does not define that being.

The Holy Bible however, reveals that the truth is somewhat different. The Bible does state that there is only one God:

I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. (Isaiah 45:5)

However, it states that those who practice pagan religions worship idols and demons, rather than the God of the Bible. Psalms 96:5 reveals that the gods of the many nations which surrounded Israel were idols. Those peoples did not worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

For all the gods of the nations are idols: but the LORD made the heavens.
Paul warned the Christians at Corinth not to participate in pagan worship. He revealed that pagans worship demons rather than God.

What will Jesus tell the Mason who claims to be a Christian?

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matthew 7:21-23

By joining in pagan worship ceremonies, WE sinned against God. When we realized that the GAOTU was not the God of the Bible, we claimed the promise found in John's first letter:

It’s not a church ? False 1.) I have also proven this through the multiple sources that describe the definition of the term “Church “. Freemasonry is also a church. They teach their own “ONE WORLD VIEW OF GOD”. Which goes against the very teachings of Christianity.

It doesn’t have a plan of salvation ? NOT TRUE-False ! The World Book Encyclopedia's dictionary defines the word, "eschatology", as being, "doctrines of the last or final things, as death, the judgment, heaven, and hell; the branch of theology dealing with these doctrines."

Your Plan of Salvation is called: “THE LAMBSKIN APRON AND THE GREAT WHITE THRONE”

To Read in full context please see:

www.fish4masons.org...

Judgment is properly listed among these last or final things, and when it comes to judgment, Freemasonry certainly does have a version all its own. Freemasonry certainly does have its own eschatology. And no place in blue lodge ritual is this Masonic doctrine more pronounced than, first of all, in the symbolism of the lambskin, or white leather, apron; and secondly, in the lecture accompanying the presentation of this apron to the newly initiated Entered Apprentice.

EXAMPLES: First of all, regarding its symbolism, we find this in the Nevada Ritual, page 32:

"You were presented with a lambskin or white leather apron, because the lamb, in all ages has been deemed an emblem of innocence. The lambskin is therefore to remind you of that purity of life and rectitude of conduct which is so essentially necessary to your gaining admission to that Celestial Lodge above, where the Supreme Architect of the Universe presides."

As expected, we find it similarly expressed in the 'Nevada Masonic Monitor, First Degree - Entered Apprentice', page 14:

"The Lamb has in all ages been deemed an emblem of innocence. The lambskin is therefore to remind you of that purity of life and rectitude of conduct which is so essentially necessary to your gaining admission to that Celestial Lodge above, where the Supreme Architect of the Universe presides."

Freemasonry tells its members to study the Bible that they may learn the way to everlasting life. Yet, the Way, that plan of salvation shown in God's Written Word, is totally ignored in the lodge room. In fact, it is banned from being taught in the lodge room. Why? Because they have their own plan of salvation they are promoting, and they don't want any competition, especially if it is readily recognized that their plan is in direct conflict with the Written Word of God.

It is quite clearly spelled out in the Bible, that Jesus Christ is the Way. John 14:6 - "Jesus saith unto him, 'I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me.'

It’s ok for a Christian to pray to his own God while others pray to their own god. Not True-False Again !For the whole article: Prayer in the Masonic Lodge

www.fish4masons.org...

It is truly a shame that Haffner did not read and understand chapter 10 of 1st Corinthians. If he had, he would have understood that pagans worship demons, not God. Islam denies that Jesus Christ is the Unique Son of God. Rather, it declares that Jesus was only a prophet. Islamic doctrine declares that Allah, the god of Islam, does not have a son. Since the God of the Bible has a Son and Allah, the God of Islam, does not have a Son, Allah cannot be the God of the Bible. Furthermore, if Haffner had read and understood the book of 2nd John he would have understood that those who reject Jesus Christ and do not follow in His teachings do not have God.

John wrote:
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds (2 John 9-11)

With an understanding of this passage, it is possible to know that those who organized the paganism known as Freemasonry were not Christians. They were not continuing in the teaching of the Scriptures. Would Christians substitute the name GAOTU for God and do away with the name of Jesus so that pagans could join with them in prayer without being offended? No, Christians would have shared Jesus with the pagans so that they too might have salvation through faith in Him.

It is true that there is one God. However, all men, specifically pagans, do not worship that one God. The worshippers of Baal learned the truth on Mt. Carmel. Baal is not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Judgment was swift on Mt. Carmel. (See 1 Kings 18:20-40.) The god of Freemasonry, the GAOTU, is also not the God of the Bible. Will God judge Masons who do not repent and continue to worship the GAOTU any differently than he judged the worshippers of Baal?

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Cor 6:9-10)

Symbolism doesn’t go against the teachings of God ? NOT TRUE- ! False AgainOne EXAMPLE of many :

The Symbolism of the Three Great Lights of Masonry

The Three Great Lights of Masonry are the Volume of Sacred Law (VSL), the Square and Compass. The VSL emits spiritual & moral light, while the Square & Compass both emit moral light. If the "3 Great Lights" emit spiritual and moral light, then conversely, what does the darkness in which the initiate came from represent? Again, the answer Masonicly speaking, spiritual and moral ignorance of the secret mysteries of life. What is a Christian doing going into a Masonic Lodge accepting that he is in darkness when Jesus calls Christians the light of the world? (Matthew 5:14-16)
Additionally, the VSL is a "rule or guide to faith and practice," it is that volume of sacred law in which the Mason believes to be the inspired Word of God. So, for example, for the Muslim Mason it is the Koran, for the Hindu Mason the Upanishads, and for the Christian Mason it is the Holy Bible. Again, using the words of William Larson, 33° Kenton Lodge #145, Oregon USA:

"On the Altar you will notice that the Bible here displayed is of the King James Version. This is the Holy Writings that this lodge prefers to use. However, these holy writings could just as easily be the Veda, the Koran, the Jewish book of faith, or any other sacred book you prefer. We, as Masons, make no distinction of one bible to another."

This Masonic worldview is heretical, in that it suggests that all holy writings are equally valid, equally true, come from God (G.A.O.T.U.) and are therefore "on the same level" as His inspired revelation to all mankind. Again, this is not biblical accord to Joshua 1:8, 2 Timothy 3:16-17, 2 Peter 1:20-21, Matthew 5:18 and John 16:12-13, and is therefore heresy from a Christian perspective.

What about the Square & Compass? Masons are taught to use the Square "to square their actions" and the Compass "to circumscribe their desires and keep their passions in due bounds with all mankind." So effectively they are saying in order to behave appropriately and limit sinful desires, Masons must somehow apply these working tools in their day-to-day lives. Although they are never really shown how to do this, Masons are expected to studying and apply Masonic principles and through their own effort "improve themselves in Masonry."

Is this biblical? Can we, in and of ourselves, improve from our human frailties and fallen, sinful nature? Not according to Jesus in John 15 and Romans 8. Jesus said that apart from Him, we can't do anything, and unless we surrender our lives completely to His Spirit, moment-by-moment on a daily basis, and allow Him to live His life in and through us (Galatians 2:20) we will eventually fail and hopelessly fulfill the desires of our sinful flesh (sinful nature).

Another thing that I realized about Masonry while researching is that most are blind to what’s going on in and around them as in any cult. Everything is on a need to know basis. Which hides the truth from its followers.
Is this intentional lying to hide the Truth or is it a lack of knowledge within. Either way it doesn’t matter. People are being deceived. Who is behind this deception of truth. Christian Masons ?

I could go on and on about the conflicts and Heresy involved in the Masonic Church but it would be in vain I am afraid:

Why ? - Some claim to be Christians yet the do not know Gods Word nor do they believe in the Bible as Gods infinite Word ? What then is there to argue about ? They have NO Christian Backing yet they call themselves Christian ? They have no fruit as the bible talks about yet they call themselves a Christian? I thought that I had been talking to Christians ? But after looking at your replies it is very evident that you are NOT a Believer.

If a person truly is a “Christian” He will find the Truth if he takes the time to look into it.

The problem is that it’s so easy and convienant to believe in a theology that backs up a persons lifestyle and beliefs in a tolerant type of God that Masonry Teaches. Rather than taking the time to find the Truth themselves.

I live you with this:

Why would a Christian want to be a Mason ? Maybe he fills incomplete. Maybe he wants to be accepted as is ? Maybe he wants to be part of something bigger ? Maybe he wants a life that He runs and doesn’t have to bow to another ? There is a lot of different answers out there but one thing seems to be the key.

They never found what they were looking for or they needed something more so they moved on. Is this the definition of a Christian ? What were they looking for outside the realm of God ?

If there truly is a “Christian” that has fallen into the trap of Masonry please read the un-refutable Word Of God ! Please ! You owe it to your soul to find the Truth of your errors.

In the Spirit of the threads title “ HANDSHAKES AND OTHER NONSENSE

If anyone wants to know what the big secret about the handshakes and such please check this out:

www.fish4masons.org...

This also has occultic origins ! Who would have guessed ?


Please spare us all the lies and deceit. Masonry is no secret. The truth is out there !

Truth !!


Cug

posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 07:55 PM
link   

Originally posted by Truthisoutthere
It’s ok for a Christian to pray to his own God while others pray to their own god. Not True-False Again !


I have a question for you. If you believe this what do you think of school prayer? You know there are non Christians in the schools so by promoting school prayer you are sending your children to hell?

[edit on 6/18/2005 by Cug]



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 09:28 PM
link   

Originally posted by Truthisoutthere
SEBA- You can call this a waste of time if you wish. But the fact that I am a Christian, I have tried to take my time to point out the conflicts between Masonry and your own personal walk with God so that you will not be separated from GOD. This was the topic at hand. Every time that I brought something specific up, you reluctantly backed out and refused to answer the questions ? I know why. It is very obvious to me and other Christians abroad.


I would like for you to give me ONE EXAMPLE of a discussion I backed out of, not counting your absolutely convluted and disgustingly long post that I did not even take the time to read (just like I will not take the time to read the rest of this one, only this first paragraph).

When I thought you were trying to have an honest discussion, I picked apart and gave you an answer to EVERYTHING you posted. As it became apparent that you were not interested in hearing what I had to say, I stopped wasting my time. But I will not allow you to LIE about me and say I backed out of ANY kind of discussion. On the other hand, I can provide DOZENS of examples of you changing the subject to topics in which you were proven wrong.

PLEASE PROVIDE ONE EXAMPLE OF A DISCUSSION I BACKED OUT OF BECAUSE I DID NOT HAVE AN ANSWER.

Please, just ONE. Just ONE example, nothing more is necessary...


Edit:

By the way, you NEVER proved that masonry was a religion, nor a cult. You never even took the time to post definitions like you claimed!!! WHY ARE YOU SUCH A LIAR!?!?!? Go ahead, show me WHERE in our discussion this was proven! Again, just one link will do...

[edit on 18-6-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 09:40 PM
link   

It’s not a religion ? False- 1.) Freemasonry is a Religion-Proven through the definitions
provided through the Websters Dictionary. 2.) It is also a cult- Proven through the definitions provided through the Websters Dictionary. 3.) All the basic origins of the teachings of Masonry are nothing but lies. Even the Masonic Bible has been tampered with, added too and taken away from: All signs of Herecy !


Main Entry: Free·ma·son
Pronunciation: -'mA-s&n
Function: noun
: a member of a major fraternal organization called Free and Accepted Masons or Ancient Free and Accepted Masons that has certain secret rituals.

How do you get the idea of a "cult" out of that definition. So now using Websters dictionary is sort of your "last resort"?



Freemasonry tells us to worship “A” Supreme Being which doesn’t go against the Christian God. NOT TRUE-False !


Last time I checked I read that the Freemasons were a non - denominational fraternity. A Mason must worship a Supreme Being HE believes in.



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 02:15 AM
link   
A “cult” is a secret religious society – it’s not just the Webster's dictionary that says so, it’s the same in The Oxford and The Macquarie dictionaries as well.

It is normally assumed that anything that fits this description has something to hide and will no doubt have ulterior motives.
I have *personally* seen this to be the case.

It is also generally assumed that cults seek new members is ways that will cause the order to grow rapidly by “encouraging” members to bring in new believers via pyramid-style reward structures.
I have *personally* seen this to be the case.


edit: Heh - A field goal in rugby is signified by raising one hand in the air, maybe our referees just need a little help.
Does the Umpire yell "Widows Son" for a touchdown?


[edit on 19-6-2005 by MrNECROS]



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 07:11 AM
link   

Originally posted by Truthisoutthere
It's a very good thing your two cents doesn't mean anything !


I knew that about your second response to me in the thread that got closed.


BY the way-Your insults mean absolutley nothing to me and other members. It just shows your lack of knowledge and ignorance about the subject !

I never said I was a bible scholar so please don't lie about something I never said.


The older I get the more I realize how truly ignorant I am and how smart my father was. I shoulda listened more and payed closer attention


And my friend, sometimes actions speak louder than words. So while perhaps you never said those exact words, the inference or insinuation was there.


You my friend are way to quick to judge.


Am I? Are you sure? You wouldn't also be suffering from the "quick to judge" illness too would you?


Unfortuently it is a waste of time. I have presented truth with sources of backing in regards to every point that I have made. If you are unwilling or incabale of understranding the truth put before you, then there is nothing more that I can do.

The Word of God is very clear ! There is no two ways about it !

If you are a christian and have fallen for the deceit within the lodge it is nobody's fault but your own ! You have the sciptures in front of you. God commands us as christians to test the spirits. You have just decided to ignore that part.

Just remember- Ignorance is NO EXCUSE is Gods eyes.

Good luck with your personal journey of "becoming a better man " Sound Familiar. It's the premise of all your teachings withing the masonic church that goes against the teachings of Christ !

Truth


See "quick to judge"? Just because you read something on a admittedly biased website doesn't necessarily make it fact. Who is judging here? It certainly wasn't me, I merely pointed out what I believe to be fact supported by your previous posts not what I read on some dubious website and regurgitated as fact. Unlike you Sir, I have tested the spirits in real life. You tested someone elses version of falsehood and believe them to be fact. There is a distinct difference. If you had ever attended a Lodge meeting you would find there is no "Masonic Church". Once that part of your argument fades then the rest of your argument becomes a non-issue. However, you refuse to let loose of this notion as you also realize it is what the rest of your views depend on for validiity.

So I leave you with this. This is a mute and dead conversation unless we can move past this one sticking point. Since this is unlikely as your mind is already closed on the issue then it becomes a grand waste of time.

Good Luck to you my friend.



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 01:03 PM
link   
To any Mason on this board, I offer one word of dispute in terms of religious compatibility with Masonary. It is the worship of a diety known as "Jahbulon" completely documented and admitted by known high level freemasons. A quick google search on the word reveals much as does entire documentaries on the subject. Here's a start:

www.freemasonrywatch.org...

The God of the Hebrews is not the same God of Freemasonry "Jahbulon"



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 02:25 PM
link   

Originally posted by RebelSaint
To any Mason on this board, I offer one word of dispute in terms of religious compatibility with Masonary. It is the worship of a diety known as "Jahbulon" completely documented and admitted by known high level freemasons. A quick google search on the word reveals much as does entire documentaries on the subject. Here's a start:

www.freemasonrywatch.org...

The God of the Hebrews is not the same God of Freemasonry "Jahbulon"


Here we go again...

Here is what I could find about the guy that supposedly wrote that article. Let me state also that to the best of my knowledge there is no Masonic position of "Grand High Priest".

www.vaumc.org...

naums.org...

Here's a little something from Dr. Weir; a review on the book The Brotherhood by Stephen Knight.

bessel.org...


Here's some interesting stuff from the very link you posted there. As you will see if you read the article, freemasonrywatch has taken something and twisted it to suit their agenda, hoping that people will not take the time to read the whole article and digest what is being said. They seem to really like that tactic.


from: www.freemasonrywatch.org...

Knight explains JAH-BUL-ON as follows: Jah (or Jahweh) is identified as the God of the Hebrews, Bul (or Baal) as the Canaanite fertility God and On as the Egyptian god Osiris. He quotes Albert Pike (1883) as saying, "No man or body of men can make me accept as a sacred word, in part composed of the name of an accursed and beastly heathen god, whose name has been for more than two thousand years an appellation of the Devil."(Ibid., pp. 236 f).

The Church of England echoed Knight's contentions with the headline, "Aspects of Masonic ritual condemned as blasphemous." (Church Times, London: G. J. Palmer & Sons, No. 6488, p. 1). The working group appointed to study Freemasonry for the General Synod concluded, inter alia, "that JAHBULON, the name or description of God which appears in all the rituals is blasphemous."Ibid.

They contended that the name of God must not be taken in vain or combined with those of pagan deities. Their data and conclusions are both mistaken, but they do suggest an area for careful appraisal by Royal Arch Masons. The principal objections, by Biblical and historical standards, to our present practice in Royal Arch Masonry are set forth below.

1. Matters of Fact: The ritual states that Jah, Bel and On are the name of Deity in Syriac, Chaldean and Egyptian. This is not true. It would be more accurate to say that Jah, Bel and On are thought to be the names of Syriac, Chaldean and Egyptian gods, but even this conclusion is inaccurate, as described below.

a. Syriac: There is no evidence to suggest that Syriac existed at the time of the rebuilding of the Temple. Syriac is an Aramaic dialect used in Edessa (north of Mesopotamia and a sometime Crusader dominion) and in western Mesopotamia. "It was similar to, but not identical with, the Aramaic dialect used in Palestine during the time of Jesus and his apostles." (The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible, New York: Abingdon Press, 1962, Vol. 4, p. 754a).

The earliest written Syriac, fragments of the New Testament, dates from the 2nd Century A.D., the earliest Syriac Old Testament was written in the 3rd Century A.D.) In contrast with Syriac, the use of Aramaic as a colloquial language was acquired by Jewish exiles and would have been widely known at the time of rebuilding the Temple. Nehemiah 8:8,

"So they read in the book of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading," may refer to an Aramaic paraphrase of the Hebrew Scriptures. (Ibid., Vol. 4, p. 749a.) "Jah" does not appear in the Bible except as a prefix or suffix, is the preliterary name of God used by the southern Hebrew tribes, and at the time of the rebuilding of the Temple the term was well-established as a Hebrew abbreviation of the name of the Covenant Deity. It is not the name of Deity in the Syriac language.

b. Chaldee: The once powerful Babylonian Empire had been crushed by the time of the rebuilding of the Temple. The survivors were called Chaldeans. In the Chaldean language, Bel or Baal, from the Akkadian root belu, means "he who possesses, subdues or rules," and always refers to Marduk, the state-god of Babylon. Bel is the Mesopotamian equivalent of the Canaanitish God, Baal, the principal god of the indigenous Palestinians at the time of rebuilding the Temple. Because of its bitter religious and social connotations, Bel cannot have been used to refer to Deity by our Companions who rebuilt the Temple.(Videibid., Vol. 1, p. 376.; Cf. B. Davidson, Analytic Hebrew andChaldee Lexicon, London: Samuel Bagster, n.d., 1963, p. 85.)

c. Egyptian: The use of On in our ritual is probably based on Genesis 41:45, 50 and 46:20 which refer to Asenath, wife of Joseph and daughter of Potipherah, "priest of On." Apparently, the author or authors of the ritual understood the "On" in these passages to refer to an Egyptian god, On. Instead, On, in Egyptian, means Sun.

The Egyptians did not call the Sun god On. In the Old Kingdom Re was the sun god. In later syncretism, the term was Amon-Re. A major effort at monotheism was made, about 1375 B.C., by Pharaoh Amen-hotep IV, who changed his name to Akh-en-Aton and concentrated worship in Aton, the sun disc. The failure of the effort is reflected by the change of the name of Pharaoh Tut-ankh-Aton to Tut-ankh-Amon.
In the Biblical passages quoted, "On" is a place name, an Egyptian city whose better known Greek name is Heliopolis. The less familiar Hebrew equivalent is Beth-shemesh.However, it is important to note that in the Septuagint, the translation (285-245 B.C.) of the Hebrew Old Testament into Greek, the Tetragrammaton of Exodus 3:14 is translated into a Greek word pronounced "ha own.

"This Greek word can be literally translated, "Being," and itself gives scope to much interesting interpretation.2. Historical Setting: At the rebuilding of the Temple, which we commemorate in the Royal Arch degree, the strife between Israel and her neighbors was intense. This fact is commemorated in the ritual of Cryptic Masonry where, based on Nehemiah 4:13-22, the builders of Zerubbabel's Temple are described as using a sword for defense and a trowel for construction. It is inconceivable that our ancient Companions would have engaged in a ceremony using the words, Jah, Bel and On, however innocent such practice might seem in our enlightened age.

To a large degree, the Old Testament, especially the writings of the Prophets, is a history of the conflict to keep the identity and worship of God clearly defined and free from contamination with pagan contamination. The Prophets made the choice clear. On one hand was (and is) the unseen monotheistic God of Israel (honored in the Shema, "Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord...,"Deuteronomy 6:4.) and whose name was too holy to be pronounced.

Opposing were the pagan gods, tangible, fabricated and dominated by their human creators and transported like baggage.Isaiah 46. Isaiah reminds us, "Remember this and consider, recall it to mind, you transgressors, remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is none like me...."46:8,9. Without doubt, the use of Jah-Bel-On would have been far more offensive to our ancient Brothers and Companions at the rebuilding of the Temple than it may be to our present critics. In a word, they would have been horrified.

...At the time of rebuilding the Temple, the conflict between the Companions who worshiped Yahweh and the worshipers of Baal was, at best, intermittent warfare.Our ancient Companions, who rebuilt the Temple and whom we seek to emulate, could not be comfortable with our ritual. Similarly, the Companions of the Grand Chapter of England have eliminated all references to pagan deities from their ritual. Let us see if the critics of Freemasonry respond with equivalent understanding, tolerance and consideration.


(emphasis mine)

So you see, it seems to me that you have not done your research, but have instead taken something you read on an anti-Masonic website and posted it here as truth. Don't feel bad, you're not the first one, and you are surely not going to be the last.


I leave you with this: www.masonicinfo.com...

It gives a little insight into the types of tactics used by anti-Masons and the lengths they will go to to try to make their point. The bottom line is that if a person just uses their head, applies some common sense, and doesn't let sensationalism stand in the way of Truth, the nonsense can easily be identified.

I have been researching Masonry for over a year now, and while at present I am not a member, this will change within the next year. Why? Because even though I heard and read all of the nasty hateflu things people say about Freemasonry, the research I myself have done and the people I myself have spoken to regarding the subject have led me to the conclusion that Masonry is a group of outstanding men of whom I would be honored to call my Brothers.

Oh and BTW, RebelSaint, Mark Twain was a Mason. Just so you know.


[edit on 6/19/05 by The Axeman]



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 02:34 PM
link   

Originally posted by RebelSaint
The God of the Hebrews is not the same God of Freemasonry "Jahbulon"


Axeman pretty much explained it all, and tore your claim to shreds. Please think something through before you simply read something on a website with an agenda and decide to post it here like its big news. And one lats thing:

THERE IS NO "GOD OF FREEMASONRY"!!! FREEMASONS WORSHIP THEIR OWN INDIVIDUAL GODS!



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 07:47 PM
link   

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by RebelSaint
The God of the Hebrews is not the same God of Freemasonry "Jahbulon"


Axeman pretty much explained it all, and tore your claim to shreds. Please think something through before you simply read something on a website with an agenda and decide to post it here like its big news. And one lats thing:

THERE IS NO "GOD OF FREEMASONRY"!!! FREEMASONS WORSHIP THEIR OWN INDIVIDUAL GODS!


That's true, but the biggest thing these knaves and fools can't get a grasp on is that Freemasons don't WORSHIP at ALL (in Lodge) I'm a Christian, but I do NOT worship Jesus Christ while in Lodge, because we don't go to Lodge to WORSHIP...not Jesus, not God Almighty, not Allah, not that bastardized word "Jah-bu-lon" which is NOT used in the U.S, although a variation of it has been in the past....most now utilize the word Jehovah or Yaweh, but that's not the point.

TIOT, and his ilk can't get a grip on the fact that we're not in the Lodge Hall WORSHIPING ANYTHING OR ANYONE....we're having a business meeting...just like the Rotary Club does, etc. Personally I do my worshipping on either Sunday morning or Saturday evening (depending on which service I decide to attend)

...now where's that dead horse....I'm sure we're going to beat it some more, although I can't for the life of me figure out why any of us are wasting our time on these uninformable, unteachable, clowns... [shrug]



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 09:39 PM
link   
Never challenge an idiot to an argument. They'll pull you down to their level and beat you with experience.


Cug

posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 09:48 PM
link   

Originally posted by senrak

...now where's that dead horse....I'm sure we're going to beat it some more, although I can't for the life of me figure out why any of us are wasting our time on these uninformable, unteachable, clowns... [shrug]


Here it is



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 09:58 PM
link   
To Seb and Senrak:

You guys should just ignore TIOT's drivel from now on. You guys already won the argument, picked apart all of his posts, presented him with cold facts that destroy his argument...You guys emerged victorious. Take your spoils of war and go home
.



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 09:58 PM
link   


MJ12: There will always be another to take TIOT's place. Trust me.


[edit on 6/19/05 by The Axeman]



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 10:00 PM
link   
Hey quit smiting the horse.




top topics



 
1
<< 21  22  23    25  26  27 >>

log in

join