"Masonic" Handshakes and Other Nonsense...

truthfully, both sides dance around the fact. truth is, who cares who designed what? i dont. fact is, it was constucted in such a way that implies the occult. who did it? does it matter? it is there is it not? what does it mean. to the occultist, a lot. to those full of bliss nothing at all.

Originally posted by malice_devious
who says i made up my mind about anything, my emotionally charged little friend.

Your post indicates that you probably have; I didn't say you did or didn't. I simply made the suggestion to check out both sides before you do. Emotionally charged? Hardly. At 6'-3" - 265lbs I'm not little, either.

also, what the hell do you mean? what i posted was a link, what i wrote was for fun sorry if you dont understand, maybe someday you will.

I do understand that your post was teeming with insinuations and innuendo.

it must be dark where you are.

I really see no point in you saying this other than to attempt to insult my intelligence.

anyways, the text of the post included, NONE of the information from the site. besides, the satellite image if FACT.

You mentioned the fez thing directly, and the link you posted went into the crap about DC and the obelisks. As far as the sattelite imagery? Anyone can take a crayon and draw shapes over a satellite picture.

now breath calm down and i might listen.

Whatever dude. Listen, don't listen. It doesn't matter, really.

[edit on 6/15/05 by The Axeman]

first, i was not speaking in code and you have proven that what i said was right. i will leave that at that. second you must be tryin to compensate for something, didnt mean to hurt your feelins small fry. i will get back to you momentarily. and you are very emotionally charged.

What is your problem, exactly?

Originally posted by malice_devious
first, i was not speaking in code...

Didn't say you were speaking in code, but it was a little garbled.

and you have proven that what i said was right. i will leave that at that.

Before you "leave that at that," I'd like you to explain how exactly I proved anything you said right. I'm not seeing it.

second you must be tryin to compensate for something, didnt mean to hurt your feelins small fry.

Again, useless statements meant to provoke me.

i will get back to you momentarily. and you are very emotionally charged.

Whatever you say, champ.

[edit on 6/15/05 by The Axeman]

let me guess it was garbled because you say so just like a lot of people are wrong just because you say so. just like the lansat satellite image could have been drawn by anyone with a crayon. you see, i did not insult your intelligence, you did that on your own. besides, i have read how you speak to people, it is you who insults everyone elses intelligence who disagrees with you. by the fact that you have spoken as if you were offended and so it seemed, reacted in anger. you would be in fact speaking out of emotion. listen, dont listen, you can further provoke someone and that must have been what i did because you were already provoked and it wasnt by me until after i called you small fry but i was only messin with you man, relax im not your enemy. ill give you the hat thing but as for the satellite, i guess i see your point, it could have been drawn with a crayon. kidding.

many masons have the same blood as my own in their veins and i do not care about agendas nor will i battle anyone to make them believe my own. furthermore, you do not know my agendas. be a real brother and let the man say whatever he wants if he is indeed free to worship any god he wants. why waste your time.

oopps, i had i typo, there was a miscommunication there. i must have typed not where i didnt mean to. sorry about the confusion. i was speaking in code. and i see that you are not a mason. so that is probably why you didnt catch anything that i said in metaphor. so hopefully that will resolve something. i did not mean to type the word not in when i mentioned speaking in code. as you were.

Originally posted by malice_devious
oopps, i had i typo, there was a miscommunication there. i must have typed not where i didnt mean to. sorry about the confusion. i was speaking in code. and i see that you are not a mason. so that is probably why you didnt catch anything that i said in metaphor. so hopefully that will resolve something. i did not mean to type the word not in when i mentioned speaking in code. as you were.

Axeman may not be a mason, but he knows more about Freemasonry than many of my brothers. You, on the other hand, know very little and that is apparent by the fact that you think a mason would understand the mumbo jumbo you posted earlier. None of it is true, and, like Axeman said, you should research both side of a situation even before you post something that is directionally vague.

if you are a mason and you dont see the links in the metaphors you are either lying or have poor reading comprehension plain and simple. perhaps you do not remember a certain certificate you were given, and if your signature is accurate han you were given it. but i will not waste my time with you anymore because you, in my opinion are not being honest because you kno that unless someone is a mason the rest will not really know for sure but what if a 32 degree told his nephew a few things about it before he died. is he lying to? no my friend i saw the certificate and he told me that i was not allowed to see it but i was shown anyway. i really dont want to tell you what the first post i put on ment because you will only tell me i am wrong anyways.

how do i know you are lying? are you a traveling man? wich way are you going, to the east. let me guess that doesnt mean anything does it. it is only how you identify another mason when speaking. that has been confirmed to me by so many masons and you didnt understand the first sentance of my original post? right, right,.... whatever.

Originally posted by malice_devious
if you are a mason and you dont see the links in the metaphors you are either lying or have poor reading comprehension plain and simple. perhaps you do not remember a certain certificate you were given, and if your signature is accurate han you were given it. but i will not waste my time with you anymore because you, in my opinion are not being honest because you kno that unless someone is a mason the rest will not really know for sure but what if a 32 degree told his nephew a few things about it before he died. is he lying to? no my friend i saw the certificate and he told me that i was not allowed to see it but i was shown anyway. i really dont want to tell you what the first post i put on ment because you will only tell me i am wrong anyways.

You ARE lying. There is no such thing as a certificate that a 32nd degree mason is given that he cannot show anyone. That's a big pile of dog doo-doo and if you really think you are tellling the truth, then I feel sorry to have to tell you that YOU have been lied to or deceived.

Then again maybe I'M lying about being a mason, eh? Do yourself a favor and don't make yourself look anymore silly than you already do. If you are not a mason, you do not know any TRUE masonic secrets and you DEFINITELY don't know any masonic innuendos, codes or catch phrases. So don't try, any mason will tell you that what you posted is nonsense. So sorry.

Originally posted by malice_devious
how do i know you are lying? are you a traveling man? wich way are you going, to the east. let me guess that doesnt mean anything does it. it is only how you identify another mason when speaking. that has been confirmed to me by so many masons and you didnt understand the first sentance of my original post? right, right,.... whatever.

If someone came to me and asked me if I was a travelling man THE WAY YOU JUST DID, I would know he was not a mason. If you want to learn to say it the correct way, do a little more research. It's out there.

did i say you got a certificate for 32 degree? no? i didnt thanks, how about you not making yourself look silly. as a matter of fact didnt i say that you would base you response on the fact that non masons dont know what theyre taking about.

Originally posted by malice_devious
did i say you got a certificate for 32 degree? no? i didnt thanks, how about you not making yourself look silly. as a matter of fact didnt i say that you would base you response on the fact that non masons dont know what theyre taking about.

Actually, I based my response on the fact that what you posted makes no sense... I merely ATTRIBUTED this to the fact that you are not a mason. Being a mason is an experience, and the TRUE masonic secrets are the changes that occur within a man when he goes through those experiences. THAT is how masons recognize each other and THAT is what creates the bond of brotherhood.

You can try to imitate us all you want, you will never pass yourself off as a mason.

Edit:
And what do you mean you didn't say masons get a certificate:

no my friend i saw the certificate and he told me that i was not allowed to see it but i was shown anyway

What certificate are you referring to?



[edit on 15-6-2005 by sebatwerk]

nevermind everything i said. will it make you feel better if i tell you i just made the whole thing up? you ar a complete waste of time, unless your lodge doesnt give certificates showing what level you are. looking silly, how bout this. meet me one day see if you look even sillier when you leave, lying fool. good insult exchange for you? goodbye,

Originally posted by malice_devious
nevermind everything i said. will it make you feel better if i tell you i just made the whole thing up? you ar a complete waste of time, unless your lodge doesnt give certificates showing what level you are. looking silly, how bout this. meet me one day see if you look even sillier when you leave, lying fool.

good insult exchange for you? goodbye,

Masons DO receive a certificate when they get their 32nd degree. It's a beautiful piece that comes from the House of the Temple in Washington DC, and we can show it to ANYONE we want. Mine will hang in my office soon enough. So if you saw one, you were lied to when the person told you that you were not allowed to see it. As a matter of fact, I will scan mine and post it on here JUST FOR YOU. Would that make you feel better?

And by the way, your insults only serve to show that you are a short-tempered individual who does not know how to have a discussion. You didn't insult me, you belittled yourself.

OK OK I'll play. Sintce this presumptuous littel guy has assumed I am ignorant, I'll break down the "code" ( ) here...

Originally posted by malice_devious
i know a travelin man headed east [The East is a prominent place in Masonry. This is where the sun rises, and where the Master presides to set the Craft to work. Initiates are told "Look well to the East!"] and on his way he told me a few things and i followed him. on the way we passed 30th street [A reference to the incorrect assumption that those beyond the 30° are let in on some "mysterious secret" (more on this in a moment)] and he told me that luicifer was god. he enlightened me on the real conspiracy behind the bible that the good god is actually lucifer. [there's that supposed secret; that Lucifer is the god of Freemasonry. Wrong.] and there is a name for god ,triune in nature, and one of the names means serpent.i thought that seemed kinda christian. it being like a trinity. [a reference to "Ja-Bul-On, perhaps? Another of those tricky anti-Mason's claims] i also remembered a war, more like a slaughter. in the city of antioch. muslims attacked the city and butchered them. afterwards wiped the blood of their victims on their head, that they would be living "shrines" of the event. [referring to the Shriners' red fez link I posted] i have seen this islamic sword somewhere before, hmmm [No kidding. It is one of the symbols on the crest of the AAONMS]. later we stopped by this checkered diner [referring, of course, to the white and black checkered floors that are in many lodges, which is symbolic of balance; night/day, good/evil, that sort of thing] and i saw some of the best people ever but at an equal number i saw very bad men. [insinuating that while there are many good men in Masonry there is an equal number of bad men with ill intentions; while there may be some that slip through the cracks, I hardly think it is an equal number. That's just silly] then it dawned on me [enlightenment]. blah blah blah our kingdom come [nonsense]. okay bye bye [buh-bye now].

www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...

So, as you can see I completely understood your "code" ( ) and I still say you should research both sides of the story before you make up your mind. Good research and intelligence are not overrated.

As to your comments on my demeanor, I am generally very polite and respectful until somne jackass comes along telling me (in not so many words) that I am some kind of idiot and I have no idea what I am talking about, or that because of my ideas I am not a Christian.

If someone comes here for a discussion or to learn something, they have my respect by default. When someone cames along here posting like you did, using "code" ( ) to reference lies and makes insinuations about a fraternity I respect and intend to join, they have a better chance of getting a sarcastic or short response, because frankly, I am so over people spouting off at the mouth about Freemasons without the first clue as to what it really is about.

[edit on 6/15/05 by The Axeman]

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by Truthisoutthere
Before jumping the gun, Is it possible for me to explain or show you what I have found and where the contradiction layes ?

Please I am not judging and don't want to go backwords.

Neither do I. I'm listening.

Lets try a different approach- Lets pretend I am a Mason among others and I have found something that was bothering me. Maybe I read something or heard something and I wanted clarity on. Could I come to another member with my concern to disscuss ? Or would you throw me to the dogs ?

I'll play along. Let's try it. Lemme know whats up.

Hey Seba,

It’s Truth- Apologies for the delay.

I have a concern here that is really bothering me and I hope that you can help or give me some advice. I am a fellow Christian like yourself, within the lodge and was babtized in the church with water and therefore I believe that I will go to heaven some day when I die.

Question: While attending my church and reading the faith statement that is in accordance to the bibles teachings, I feel that I might have made a mistake when I took the oath into Masonry ?

Here is a part of my Christian churches faith statement:

I chose some of the most basic faith statements found in many different Christian churches across the nation.

We believe in one God who is eternally existent in three persons--Father, Son and Holy Spirit who are infinite in glory, wisdom, holiness, justice, power and love.

We believe that the 66 books that comprise the Bible are the plenary, verbally inspired Word of God, inerrant and infallible in the original manuscripts, and the guide and final authority in matters of faith and day to day life, interpreted by the Holy Spirit to each individual believer.

We believe salvation is received by faith alone, apart from all good works and merit. Faith which leads to salvation produces repentance in the life of a believer.

We believe that those who by faith alone and through no merit of their own receive the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior are miraculously born again of the Holy Spirit and become children of God and partakers of His divine nature and eternal life.

We believe that by His Word and power God has given us everything pertaining to life and godliness, including not only salvation from the penalty of sin but instruction in righteousness for present sanctification and victorious living to the glory of God.

We believe the church, the Body of Christ, is composed of all those who have heard the Gospel of grace through faith and have been regenerated by the Spirit of God.

We believe that those who are following Christ do not walk in darkness. Conversely, if a man is walking in darkness he is not following Christ.



Now when I took the oath (I feel ) that I (may have) went against my beliefs, when I had to accept the fact that the Masonic belief has made my God the Christian God an equal with other gods, beings or any another idol ?

I am also a little concerned as a Christian about praying to the One and Only True God under the same roof while others are praying to their gods whom may be against my God ?

I took the time to research this in the bible, because this is what God expects out of us as Christians and this is what I have found:

The Lord said : Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
2 Corinthians 6:14 - 7:1 (KJV)

Any advice or help in this matter will be greatly appreciated as I feel that I have disappointed my God and may have gone against him. And I feel terrible about it.

Can you please help ?


Thanks again- Brothers in the Lord
Truth

Originally posted by Truthisoutthere
Now when I took the oath (I feel ) that I (may have) went against my beliefs, when I had to accept the fact that the Masonic belief has made my God the Christian God an equal with other gods, beings or any another idol ?

I am also a little concerned as a Christian about praying to the One and Only True God under the same roof while others are praying to their gods whom may be against my God ?

I took the time to research this in the bible, because this is what God expects out of us as Christians and this is what I have found:

The Lord said : Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness?

Hey Truth, let me see if I can put your mind at ease ()...

First off, there is no reason to be concerned about the masonic oath. The oath only states that we will not reveal the modes of recognition of Freemasons, that we will not violate female members of a mason's family and that we will help any brother in need. This oath does not interfere with the duty we owe to God, our Country, our neighbor and ourselves, and this is explicitly stated within the oath.

Now, please understand that Christian masons do not lower our God to an equal status with other mason's Gods. Talk of religion and anything having to do with it does not belong in lodge. Christian masons believe our God is the one TRUE God, and we feel that all other masons are worshipping an incorrect deity, but that is none of our business. Let them worship who they want, they will be judged by God not by us.

Now, if you have a problem with praying to your God while others pray to another God, or if you have a problem calling a man who worships another God "brother", then maybe Freemasonry is not for you. Like I stated before, religion is left completely out of the lodge, and nobody makes mention of their own personal beliefs. This is simply not brought up while in lodge. We masons feel that a man's religious convictions are his own business, and in the end he will or will not realize the error of his ways if he has strayed from the true path.

But different religions within Freemasonry is no different than a workplace with employees of different religions. Your workplace does not discriminate, and sectarian religion is not brought up while in the office. If you cannot be in lodge with men of other religions, then how can you be in the office with employees of other relligions?

Does this help?

Originally posted by Truthisoutthere

*snip some previous quotes*

I have a concern here that is really bothering me and I hope that you can help or give me some advice. I am a fellow Christian like yourself, within the lodge and was babtized in the church with water and therefore I believe that I will go to heaven some day when I die.

Question: While attending my church and reading the faith statement that is in accordance to the bibles teachings, I feel that I might have made a mistake when I took the oath into Masonry ?

Here is a part of my Christian churches faith statement:

I chose some of the most basic faith statements found in many different Christian churches across the nation.

We believe in one God who is eternally existent in three persons--Father, Son and Holy Spirit who are infinite in glory, wisdom, holiness, justice, power and love.

We believe that the 66 books that comprise the Bible are the plenary, verbally inspired Word of God, inerrant and infallible in the original manuscripts, and the guide and final authority in matters of faith and day to day life, interpreted by the Holy Spirit to each individual believer.

We believe salvation is received by faith alone, apart from all good works and merit. Faith which leads to salvation produces repentance in the life of a believer.

We believe that those who by faith alone and through no merit of their own receive the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior are miraculously born again of the Holy Spirit and become children of God and partakers of His divine nature and eternal life.

We believe that by His Word and power God has given us everything pertaining to life and godliness, including not only salvation from the penalty of sin but instruction in righteousness for present sanctification and victorious living to the glory of God.

We believe the church, the Body of Christ, is composed of all those who have heard the Gospel of grace through faith and have been regenerated by the Spirit of God.

We believe that those who are following Christ do not walk in darkness. Conversely, if a man is walking in darkness he is not following Christ.



Now when I took the oath (I feel ) that I (may have) went against my beliefs, when I had to accept the fact that the Masonic belief has made my God the Christian God an equal with other gods, beings or any another idol ?

I am also a little concerned as a Christian about praying to the One and Only True God under the same roof while others are praying to their gods whom may be against my God ?

*snip some biblical quotes*

Any advice or help in this matter will be greatly appreciated as I feel that I have disappointed my God and may have gone against him. And I feel terrible about it.

Can you please help ?


Thanks again- Brothers in the Lord
Truth

Ok

First as Sebatwerk said...Christian Masons are not "lowering" their God to the level of "other" gods. Just referring to him with a different title. It is really not unlike the word God itself. If a Christian speaking to another Christian refers to God they both know it is the Christian God that they are talking about. If two Muslim people are talking and they refer to God they too know they are speaking of the Muslim God. Now if a Muslim and a Christian are standing side by side speaking with another person (religion unknown) and they refer to God, the Christian will more than likely think that they are meaning the Christian God, the Muslim their God when in all reality the person could be refering to the Islamic God. So you see not unlike the term GAOTU, the word God itself can have different meanings to different people.

After reading your "church's" faith statement, I personally do not see any conflict between it and Masonry. But, you and I are two different people and we can/will interpret things differently.

I would (if asked) explain my interpretation of it and why I feel that way. Seeing that we may not feel the same way. My advice would be if it bothers you that much, demit.

Masonry is not to come between you and your God. Period. And if you feel that this is the case...demit. No harm, no foul, no questions asked.

In my last post, I believe I misspoke when I called fundamentalist Christians the Christian Taliban. What I ment to say was radical fundamentalists. There is nothing wrong with fundamentalism. Fundamentalism can be defined as
"Main Entry: fun·da·men·tal·ism
Pronunciation: -t&l-"i-z&m
Function: noun
1 a often capitalized : a movement in 20th century Protestantism emphasizing the literally interpreted Bible as fundamental to Christian life and teaching b : the beliefs of this movement c : adherence to such beliefs
2 : a movement or attitude stressing strict and literal adherence to a set of basic principles
- fun·da·men·tal·ist /-t&l-ist/ noun
- fundamentalist or fun·da·men·tal·is·tic /-"men-t&l-'is-tik/ adjective

www.m-w.com...

About 20 years ago I met a devout muslim from Uganda by the name of Adiga. He was a fundamentalist Sunni muslim, a 30th generation Imam, trained at a madras in Saudia Arabia. We began discussing religion and he asked me about my beliefs. I told him that I was a unitarian neo-pagan. He asked me what that meant, and I told him that I follow the old earth religion, and had dedicated my life to living in balance on MotherEarth, practicin the ways of healing, and helping my fellow man. He said, "Ah, you are a Muslim!" I thought this was rather strange coming from a fundamentalist Muslim. He replied, "Islam means surrendering to the will of Allah (God). There is only one God, Allah, and Allah has many faces. You may not follow the holy Koran, but you have submitted your will to your vision of God and that makes you a Muslim" At this point, I had a new respect and understanding of Islam, fundamentalist or otherwise.
Then came 9/11 and we all saw a different, ugly face of radical Islam. Osama ben Ladin, Al-queda, and the Afghani Taliban are followers of a radical form of theWahabi sect of Islam. According to them, if you are not a Muslim, you are an infidel. And if you are a Muslim but do not follow their radical, perverted version of Wahabism, then you are not a true Muslim, but a blashemer. When they assumed power, Afghanistan went from being the most liberal and advanced Muslim country to a state of religious tyranny. The end result was the death of nearly 3,000 people in New York, Washington, and Pennsylvania.

Which brings me to TIOT. He first got my attention when he said that mason could not be a Christian. As i stated in my first post, I was very offended. But I also noticed that he said "I do realize that in Masonry we have christians, lutherans, methodists, babtsists, hindu's, buddists, atheists, wiccans, mormons and many others etc...............". Now if he had said "Christians, 'such as' Lutherans, Methodists, Baptists...." I would not have cared. I personally hope that this is what he meant. However, his statement makes it seem that Lutherans, Methodists, and Babtist are not Christian. It seems that unless someone follows his narrow definition of Christianity, then you are not a Christian. Again, I hope that this was just his poor choice of words. But I think that you can see the parallels to the Muslim Taliban. According to the new Christian Taliban, unless your version of Christianity is the same as thiers, you aren't really a Christian. They are now in the process of inflicting their narrow views on the entire country. From what is science to what books we should read, they seem to feel that thier view is the only correct one. This is an affront to America's founding fathers, masons and non-masons alike, who knew the dangers of forcing one groups religious views on an entire country.

If I have offended any fundamentalists on this board by calling them the Chrisitan Taliban, then I offer my sincere apologies. However, If you feel that you have the right to force your narrow minded beliefs on others, that only your way is right for America, then you deserve the term "Christian Taliban" And if this trend continues in the US, God (or Allah) help us all.
Shadowtiger