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The end of the European Union

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posted on May, 24 2005 @ 10:31 AM
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news.yahoo.com...

it looks like America can rest easily now that the French's ambitions for a powerful mighty Union to counter against America is goin dooown.




posted on May, 24 2005 @ 10:44 AM
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A vote against the European Constitution does not mean the end of the EU.
Even the French people are split on the Constitution.



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 10:46 AM
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If the constitution fails, the treaty system will continue and they'll probably work on a new, better constitution.



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 12:13 PM
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true it may not end the European Union but it shows there are people who prefer to state seperate and keep their sovereignty.



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by deltaboy
true it may not end the European Union but it shows there are people who prefer to state seperate and keep their sovereignty.


- You sound like you're actually believing the anti-EU side's own propaganda.

The idea of a European 'superstate' of the kind the anti's described is one of their invention only.

There has never been any realistic possibility (within any plausible near or medium term timescale) of their version of the EU coming into being.
People within each country have always wanted their countries to continue to exist.

End of the EU my a$$; the EU will continue regardless of the 'constitution' vote.

(The whole notion of a Europe where French stop being French, Greeks Greek, Germans German or Brits Brits etc etc just being a childishly ludicrous scare story for the gullible, anyway. It has never been nor ever will be IMO on the agenda, no matter what day-dreams some may have.)


[edit on 24-5-2005 by sminkeypinkey]



posted on Jun, 1 2005 @ 09:16 AM
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Now correct me if im wrong about this, but couldnt the "yes" countries forge ahead without the "no" in further integrating. I know there is a clause in the NICE treaty allowing this that has been used for the euro and the Schengen passport-free zone.

Or because this is a seperate treaty, would that clause in the NICE treaty not apply?



posted on Jun, 1 2005 @ 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by abeyer
Now correct me if im wrong about this, but couldnt the "yes" countries forge ahead without the "no" in further integrating.


- Well the Treaty does say that there is a procedure to discuss deadlock. The draft constitution says


(in Article IV-443-4) that if, after two years from the treaty being signed (which was on 29 October 2004), 20 member states have ratified it and others "have encountered difficulties", the "matter will be referred to the European Council".


It does not say what the European Council should do. It is possible that the Council might seek to revive the treaty in some way but that is for a decision at the time.

news.bbc.co.uk...



posted on Jun, 1 2005 @ 12:06 PM
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I dont think we, or the French are tired of the EU. It's just time for some reflection, and some adjustments. This "constitution" is not going to adjust, its only going to increase the thing the people are tired of being fed up with.

I just cased my NO-vote, I really think this is the best at the moment. We need some open debate about the future of the EU, not extra members, rules and burocracy.

At around 9PM GMT the results of the Dutch referendum should be in...



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 05:56 AM
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Exactly. I also do object to the americanization of the EU. I don't want the EU to become a United States squared, because we are so unlike the united states. We have the best education, the best infrastructure and the best industry in the world, so i see no point in scrapping our standards for a handfull of dollars, and becoming third world economies like the US. I don't want to live in a "service paradise", licking the boots of the happy few. I want to contribute to progress and human advancement instead. We need to find a better way of living than what our politicians presented to us in the last years, it leads nowhere.



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 07:49 PM
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Originally posted by Moretti
Exactly. I also do object to the americanization of the EU. I don't want the EU to become a United States squared, because we are so unlike the united states.

Yes, we are unlike the United States. And we seem to be going in a different direction. But we have to keep our view clear from solutions that have helped us in the past but are no longer tenable.


We have the best education,

The budget of the university of Harvard is 3 times the budget of education in England (all levels).


the best infrastructure

Malaysia has better infrastructure than any European country, including the most advanced.


and the best industry in the world,

Like Parmalat?


so i see no point in scrapping our standards for a handfull of dollars, and becoming third world economies like the US. I don't want to live in a "service paradise", licking the boots of the happy few. I want to contribute to progress and human advancement instead. We need to find a better way of living than what our politicians presented to us in the last years, it leads nowhere.

Our comrades in Brussels would agree. Now sit and have a cookie. Fact is, there is tremendous social injustice and democratic defficit in the way politicians have carried this business of "Europe". They have failed to solve the national problems because Europe gives them a way of escape into a fantasy world.
The real world is: China, India, are at our door. We can't close the door. If we don't change our wrongheaded policies at the national level, Europe won't save us. We need less Europe and more objectivity.



posted on Jun, 7 2005 @ 10:22 AM
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Originally posted by StarBreather
Yes, we are unlike the United States. And we seem to be going in a different direction. But we have to keep our view clear from solutions that have helped us in the past but are no longer tenable.


- The sky is not falling in.
There are perfectly understandable reasons why growth is low in Europe at the moment, primarily that Europe's largest economy (Germany) is still suffering the cost of her reunification.

This may be a problem but it was one to be faced sooner rather than later; ultimately we will all begin to pick up again as this cost diminishes.


The budget of the university of Harvard is 3 times the budget of education in England (all levels).


- Let's see some backing for that claim......and if you are comparing like with like.


Malaysia has better infrastructure than any European country, including the most advanced.


- Let's see some backing for that claim......and if you are comparing like with like.


Like Parmalat?


- I would imagine the reference was to people like Phillips, BMW, ESA, EADS etc etc.


Fact is, there is tremendous social injustice and democratic defficit in the way politicians have carried this business of "Europe".


- The fact is this "democratic deficit" has been deliberately engineered to maintain the primacy of the sovereing nation states.

BTW what "social injustice" are you referring to?


They have failed to solve the national problems because Europe gives them a way of escape into a fantasy world.
The real world is: China, India, are at our door. We can't close the door. If we don't change our wrongheaded policies at the national level, Europe won't save us. We need less Europe and more objectivity.


- You can't 'outsource' everything.
Why would you even want to?

Trying to frighten people into a mindset of competitive bartering down of wages and conditions is laughable......

......and thankfully it is not the direction Europe as nation states nor as the EU is going in.



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 09:34 AM
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We have the best education,

The budget of the university of Harvard is 3 times the budget of education in England (all levels).



cheers for that

UK education spending = £68 Bn

budget2005.treasury.gov.uk...

comparison of world spending shows that the UK and the US are way down the list in terms of spending on education but the UK is just ahead of the US at numbers 46 & 47 respectively. In fact nearly the entire EU is ahead of the US with only Italy behind !!

It's a disgrace for both countries that third world countries such as nambia are higher up the list (number 2)
www.nationmaster.com...



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 09:36 AM
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StarBreather, I would like you to back up your claims with links and sources instead of what you say. Anyone can claim anything.



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by deltaboy
The end of the European Union



Originally posted by deltaboy
true it may not end the European Union


And what exactly was the point of your post again?



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