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How could God have existed eternally?

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posted on May, 23 2005 @ 10:21 PM
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How could god have existed eternally?

I often wondered about this question.

About a month ago, while I was eating lunch, an idea popped into my head. Basically, I was just hoping for some feedback on this idea.


In order for this concept to work, one major assumption must be made: souls can't be created or destroyed but they can be fragmented.
A fragmented soul is comparable to a puzzle. Each individual piece doesn't seem like all that much but if you put it all together, you get a full picutre.
If you can, think of all souls as starting off in pieces. Over time, the pieces that have the same spiritual "signature" gather and eventaully form an entity. Therefore, ALL souls, not just God's, have always existed.

From what I currently understand, there is nothing in any religion that directly contradicts this idea.

Correct me if I am wrong but the Christian Bible only states that God created humans and breathed life into the bodies. It never says that he created the soul that is placed in the body. Actually, I can't recall any verse that states that God created any souls at all, human or otherwise. It only says that he created life. Speaking scientifically, humans are pretty close to creating life as well. To simplify the process, all that has to be done is to synthesize and connect the correct combination of amino acids and you have a basic life form.


That's the basics of the idea I have. If you disagree, please, feel free to post your resoning against it. That way, I can further develope or, if need be, throw out this theory. If you choose to argue through scripture, please give a location which I can use (book and verse number).




posted on May, 23 2005 @ 10:27 PM
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The way I understood it in Genesis, is God created Adam from the dust of the earth, but he was just a shell. When he breathed life into Adam that was when the soul was transferred to the "shell" so to speak. Thats how I understand it.



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 10:31 PM
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daniel asked:

It never says that he created the soul that is placed in the body. Actually, I can't recall any verse that states that God created any souls at all, human or otherwise

Colossians 1:16

16For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.


In short to your question: "could god have existed eternally?". I would have to say yes, but as to how i have no idea



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 10:42 PM
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No conspiracy here, moving to the proper forum. This is going to start costing people as I'm having to work far too much, and participate far too little!

God created everything. There is nothing in the universe He did not create, so the souls were created by Him, too.

He said we were created in "their" image; a body, a soul and a spirit.

Christ is the body, God is the Soul and the Holy Spirit is the spirit.



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 10:43 PM
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Maybe because G-D exists outside of the rules for this universe, which was created by G-D?

Maybe all these fragmented souls in this universe are parts of G-D that are working out a problem for G-D?



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 11:41 PM
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Here are some more bible versus. I hope they are helpful to you.

1 Peter 2:25 (NIV)25For you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.
Psalm 104:29-31 (NIV)29 When you hide your face,
they are terrified;
when you take away their breath,
they die and return to the dust.
30 When you send your Spirit,
they are created,
and you renew the face of the earth.
31 May the glory of the LORD endure forever;
may the LORD rejoice in his works-


You may find this site very informative as to your questions:

THE SPIRITUALITY OF THE SOUL
A spirit is a being without a body that has an intellect and free will. A pure spirit is one that has no dependence on matter either for its existence or any of its activities. God is uncreated pure spirit; the angels are created pure spirits. The human soul is a spirit which, while not dependent on the body for its existence, is dependent on the body (during life in this world) for its operation. While it exists apart from the body after the death of the body, it retains a natural affinity for the body to which it will be reunited at the end of the world.
Since the soul is spiritual with no material parts, it has no size, no shape, no weight, nothing that could be observed by the senses. It cannot be measured, nor can it be divided. While the soul, in itself, is not in space, it can operate in space, in the sense that it is the spiritual source of life that vitalizes every part of the human body. It is in this sense that the soul is where it operates.
Because the soul is spiritual, it is immortal. Not only can the body be destroyed, but of its very nature it is destined for dissolution. But the soul has no material elements that can decompose or be destroyed. It comes into being by the creative hand of God, and only that same divine power can cause it to cease to exist. God implanted in the human soul a longing for happiness which will be perfectly fulfilled only in the life to come.www.rosary-center.org...




[edit on 23-5-2005 by Rren]



posted on May, 25 2005 @ 05:45 AM
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Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
God created everything. There is nothing in the universe He did not create, so the souls were created by Him, too.


god didnt created my 'radeon x850xt platinum edition' graphics card, and as far as i kno, its in this universe.



posted on May, 25 2005 @ 08:53 AM
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Originally posted by daniel191159
It only says that he created life. Speaking scientifically, humans are pretty close to creating life as well.

Tell that to my mom....
We're far from "creating" life but its not impossible.



To simplify the process, all that has to be done is to synthesize and connect the correct combination of amino acids and you have a basic life form.

Not at all easy as it sounds...dont know if we can do that anytime soon.
Darn I'll be dead...I wanna get me funky spanking new robotzzzzzzzzzz.....



posted on May, 25 2005 @ 09:09 AM
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From the KJV Gen:1,1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

If God existed before the beginning, then that tells me that time is finite and God is infinite because He exists outside of time. Try wrapping your brain around that at 3:00am without sleep.



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 11:04 PM
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THE SPIRITUALITY OF THE SOUL
A spirit is a being without a body that has an intellect and free will. A pure spirit is one that has no dependence on matter either for its existence or any of its activities. God is uncreated pure spirit; the angels are created pure spirits. The human soul is a spirit which, while not dependent on the body for its existence, is dependent on the body (during life in this world) for its operation. While it exists apart from the body after the death of the body, it retains a natural affinity for the body to which it will be reunited at the end of the world.
Since the soul is spiritual with no material parts, it has no size, no shape, no weight, nothing that could be observed by the senses. It cannot be measured, nor can it be divided. While the soul, in itself, is not in space, it can operate in space, in the sense that it is the spiritual source of life that vitalizes every part of the human body. It is in this sense that the soul is where it operates.
Because the soul is spiritual, it is immortal. Not only can the body be destroyed, but of its very nature it is destined for dissolution. But the soul has no material elements that can decompose or be destroyed. It comes into being by the creative hand of God, and only that same divine power can cause it to cease to exist. God implanted in the human soul a longing for happiness which will be perfectly fulfilled only in the life to come.www.rosary-center.org...



I see a few issues with this theory.

One: Why can't a soul be divided? Like I said, there is no evidence that I know of in any religious scriptures that state that a soul cannot be divided.

Two: Many of the conclusions that the website has drawn and indoctrinated are based on assumptions such as assuming that the lack of words used to describe a soul led to the connection between the word "likeness" and "soul." (paragraph 5).

Paragraph 1 of "The Soul" also makes an enourmous assumption. It assumes that humans know how animals think and their limits of perception. To be honest, there is not much more that is needed to understand for most animals (at least in regards to other lifeforms) than "threat" and "not a threat."

If something is a threat, then be cautious around it or get rid of it. If it is not a threat, ignore it or interact with it.

Basically, that's what people do as well. Most of the "advanced perceptions" that humans have are simply the result of the need for them. The way human society functions is, from my point of view, terribly out of place in the world. It is more complex than it needs to be and it is one of the only things in the world that doesn't fall in time with nature. It does much more harm than good to the planet and therefor is unique. But unique doesn't always mean better. If you put any given "superior" human being in the wild, he/she will probably die fairly quickly.

They also make what I consider to be an outrageous assumption that they know that animals don't have souls. The reason that I refered to my idea as an idea rather than a theory is that I realize that it cannot be tested at the moment. If something cannot be tested then it is niether fact nor a theory; it is philosophy and heresay (that includes my thoughts on the matter).

Another thing to remember for Christians who use man's ablity to grasp "good and evil," gaining this ability meant: disobeying God, being cast out of the Garden, losing a blisfull existance, becoming embarrassed about being naked, (and eventually), countless wars, pollution (unnatural levels of it), massive overpopulation, weapons of mass destruction, etc.

I have seen in many Bible's that this trade (peace for knowledge of good and evil) has been called the "Fall of Man." If man was the only race on earth to have fallen, wouldn't that make man lesser in purity than the animals rather than greater?

According to Christianity, humans are supposed to be superiour to animals. What if an animal had written the Bible? Would it still have been likely to say that Humans were superiour? Not likely. The concept of "human superiourity" is what I call "species based arrogance." Just as the white people believed that they were superiour to many other races, humans believe that they are superiour to other species. We are still all on this one planet together, and we still need to live. The difference between animals and humans from this perspective is that humans don't give back the same amount that they take from nature.

I'm not comparing humans to a disease. That would be completely absurd. Diseases have the purpose of population control and natural selection (killing off the weak or injured leaving the stronger of the life forms to survive).

"The site also provides scriptural sources, but the sources they provide only support the subdivisions of their beliefs, not the foundations.
Not only did God create the heavens and earth and the various plants, animals and man, etc. at the beginning of time, but the work of creation still continues and will continue until the end of time. For each time that human conception takes place, God creates another human soul and infuses it into the minute fertilized element that is capable of developing to full maturity. So the soul does not exist before the body as do the angels, one of whom is assigned as guardian of the new human person; but comes into being at the very instant of conception."

This was the first paragraph and also the main idea of the section. It had no scriptural references. But the next section that branched off of this main section had references. These references did not give evidence to the main idea; it only gave a source for the secondary or corresponding idea.



Ockam's Razor states that the best theory is the one that makes the least assumptions. This is generally true (even though in this case we are not dealing with theories). The less assumptions you make, the less likely you are to be wrong. The more assumptions a theory/idea has, the more selective it becomes and the more likely to be wrong it becomes.


Yes, my idea has many assumptions as well.

1. Souls can't be created or destroyed.

The opposing assumption in this site (that didn't have direct scriptural basis) was that souls can be created or destroyed.

I pointed out in my original post that I have no evidence for this assumption.

2. Fragments of souls behave much as fragments of atomic particles behave. They combine and try to gain wholeness (chemically in the form of noble gasses).

This is a borderline assuption in my opinion. Most religions and philosophies believe that souls are a form of energy (spiritual energy). In this universe, energy cannot be created or destroyed. Matter is made of energy and therefore when matter is destroyed (or more appropriately: fragmented) the original energy is still existant. That energy can then be converted (but still not destroyed). Souls (which are energy) are present in this universe (at least in some sense) and, therefore, are subject to the principles of this universe just as matter is.



posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 06:42 PM
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you've got a pretty good point see in the beginning the word was with God and God was the word through him all things created......and later in scripture it clearly says humans are all part of a body i could go scripture diving but i'll leave that to someone else.and the whole God infinite thing he just is like just forget God has to have the rules of humans.God clearly just has always existed.



posted on Jul, 30 2007 @ 05:04 AM
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because some religious person decided to give god the attribute at some point, and everyone decided to agree with that person because it made sense to answer the question "who created god?" with the "nothing, god was always there" cop out.



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