Can Evolution alone account for the complexity of life?

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Can evolution be the source of life in all its complexity?

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One need only look carefully at any living creature to gain some concept of their enormous complexity. If you have a pet, consider the complexities that must be involved – enabling that "package of matter" to move about, play, remember, show signs of affection, eat, and reproduce!
If that is not enough to boggle your mind, imagine being given the task of constructing a similar living pet from carbon, calcium, hydrogen, oxygen, etc. – the animal's basic constituent parts.

If you have ever held a beloved pet in your hands, completely limp and dead, you may have some comprehension of the helplessness of even the most intelligent and sophisticated scientist when it comes to the overwhelming problem of trying to create life.

In contrast, the natural world does not have the advantages people bring to the problem. In nature, there are only matter, energy, time, chance and the physical laws – no guiding force, no purpose, and no goal.

Yet, even with all of modern man's accumulated knowledge, advanced tools, and experience, we are still absolutely overwhelmed at the complexities. This is despite the fact that we are certainly not starting from absolute zero in this problem, for there are millions of actual living examples of life to scrutinize.

All living things are extremely complex. Even "the simplest organism capable of independent life, the prokaryote bacterial cell, is a masterpiece of miniaturized complexity which makes a spaceship seem rather low-tech." [152]


The design of the human brain is truly awesome. (Photo from the video series, ORIGINS.)



However, none surpasses the overall complexity of the human being. Not only is each person constructed of trillions of molecules and cells, but the human brain alone is filled with billions of cells forming trillions of trillions of connections. [153]

The design of the human brain is truly awesome and beyond our understanding. Every cubic inch [2.54 centimeters] of the human brain contains at least 100 million nerve cells interconnected by 10 thousand miles of fibers.

It has been said that man's 3 pound brain is the most complex and orderly arrangement of matter in the entire universe! [154] Far more complicated than any computer, the human brain is capable of storing and creatively manipulating seemingly infinite amounts of information. Its capabilities and potential stagger the imagination. The more we use it, the better it becomes.



The brain capabilities of even the smallest insects are mind-boggling. The tiny speck of a brain found in a little ant, butterfly or bee enable them not only to see, smell, taste and move, but even to fly with great precision. Butterflies routinely navigate enormous distances. Bees and ants carry on complex social organizations, building projects, and communications. These miniature brains put our computers and avionics to shame, in comparison.

The marvels of the bodies of both animals and man are evidently endless. Dr. A.E. Wilder-Smith makes this thought-provoking and humbling statement:



Imagine being given the task of constructing any living animal from scratch, using carbon, calcium, water, etc. It boggles the mind. Now imagine miniaturizing the program to grow it and run it. All the chemical information needed to construct an elephant is contained in a tiny speck (the fertilized egg cell).


"When one considers that the entire chemical information to construct a man, elephant, frog, or an orchid was compressed into two minuscule reproductive cells [sperm and egg nuclei], one can only be astounded.
In addition to this, all the information is available on the genes to repair the body (not only to construct it) when it is injured. If one were to request an engineer to accomplish this feat of information miniaturization, one would be considered fit for the psychiatric clinic."



It is certainly true that a machine carefully made by a craftsman reflects the existence of its creator. It would be foolish to suggest that time and chance could make a computer or a microwave oven, or that the individual parts could form themselves into these complex mechanisms due to the physical properties of matter. Yet, life is far, far more complex than any man-made machine.

[edit on 28-6-2005 by Seekerof]

There is no way evolution can explain the complexity of life.

Heres an example...

A tornado blew through a junkyard, and when it passed...
The tornado FULLY ASSEMBLED A 747 JET AIRCRAFT!
You may say I'm crazy right?
That's the theory behind evolution an creation! Life appeared randomly!

Consider this: The cilia on a cell membrane is incredibly small and hair-like. But it contains over 50 parts that if one of them is not funcioning, the other ones won't work rendering it [cilia] useless. The concepts and base functions of the cell, the simplest form of life, are to mind blowing to begin to understand! If there is life on Earth, say because of a random process did occur, there is absolutly no way it could happen elsewere in the universe. Kiss the theory of life elsewere good bye.

As for evolution, do you really think it is spontanious? Can animals "adapt" to the changing world over millions of years? Can they control the fact of developing a trait to survive? Can a animal that is prey say one day, "too many of us are getting eaten, grow spikes."

Also if we evolved from apes, why are there still apes around today?

And this relates to aliens how exactly....???

Moving to Faith and Spirituality...

Originally posted by GoldEagle
There is no way evolution can explain the complexity of life.

Heres an example...

A tornado blew through a junkyard, and when it passed...
The tornado FULLY ASSEMBLED A 747 JET AIRCRAFT!
You may say I'm crazy right?
That's the theory behind evolution an creation! Life appeared randomly!

Consider this: The cilia on a cell membrane is incredibly small and hair-like. But it contains over 50 parts that if one of them is not funcioning, the other ones won't work rendering it [cilia] useless. The concepts and base functions of the cell, the simplest form of life, are to mind blowing to begin to understand! If there is life on Earth, say because of a random process did occur, there is absolutly no way it could happen elsewere in the universe. Kiss the theory of life elsewere good bye.

As for evolution, do you really think it is spontanious? Can animals "adapt" to the changing world over millions of years? Can they control the fact of developing a trait to survive? Can a animal that is prey say one day, "too many of us are getting eaten, grow spikes."

Also if we evolved from apes, why are there still apes around today?

Mabye because there are many types of apes ....

Remember that humans evolved a brain 1/2 times( or more I cannot recall) bigger than the first human by eating meat for over 2 million years.

I do not eat meat at the moment though just as that is said

Originally posted by GoldEagle
There is no way evolution can explain the complexity of life.

Heres an example...

A tornado blew through a junkyard, and when it passed...
The tornado FULLY ASSEMBLED A 747 JET AIRCRAFT!
You may say I'm crazy right?
That's the theory behind evolution an creation! Life appeared randomly!

Consider this: The cilia on a cell membrane is incredibly small and hair-like. But it contains over 50 parts that if one of them is not funcioning, the other ones won't work rendering it [cilia] useless. The concepts and base functions of the cell, the simplest form of life, are to mind blowing to begin to understand! If there is life on Earth, say because of a random process did occur, there is absolutly no way it could happen elsewere in the universe. Kiss the theory of life elsewere good bye.

As for evolution, do you really think it is spontanious? Can animals "adapt" to the changing world over millions of years? Can they control the fact of developing a trait to survive? Can a animal that is prey say one day, "too many of us are getting eaten, grow spikes."

Also if we evolved from apes, why are there still apes around today?

lol, now i remember why i came back to these forums. to have a good laugh.

"There is no way evolution can explain the complexity of life." please... ignorance. absolute certainty doesnt exsist, reguardless if your absolutly certain.

[edit on 12/17/2004 by cheeser]

Originally posted by GoldEagle
Also if we evolved from apes, why are there still apes around today?

hypothetically... ask yourself. If the "Intel Pentium 4 Processor 3.0GHz" evolve from a "Intel Pentium 4 Processor 2.8GHz". why are there still 2.8GHz processors around on the market?
if you truely dont understand and you really wonna know why there are still apes around... along with humans, just ask me, and ill post in this forum. if u dont wonna know, i wont bother wasting my time.


[edit on 12/17/2004 by cheeser]

Originally posted by lightseeker
Can evolution be the source of life in all its complexity?

Of course it can.. you begin with a single celled organism- the next generation has two..the next.. four etc until a few billion years later the planet is covered with diverse and complex organisms. It takes a while.

In nature, there are only matter, energy, time, chance and the physical laws – no guiding force, no purpose, and no goal.

Wrong. This one assumption shows an already flawed conclusion before it even tries to explain itself. No guiding force? Thats scientifically false information from the onset. The guiding force in nature is survival.. there is no reason why it can't 'guide' itself. And chance? There is only action and reaction- something that seems like a random event [ie without cause] is actually the result of two things coinciding caused by other actions and reactions coinciding.. it might be rare for a planet to be just the right size, type and distance from a the right kind of sun to bring about life.. but it happened and here we are.

I know this has already been adressed but:

Also if we evolved from apes, why are there still apes around today?

:bnghd:
GoldEagle.. we share a common ancestory with apes- with chimpanzies and all other primates because we are primates. Apes are like a cousin to our species- not a grandpa. Is there a limit to how may cousins someone can have?

Originally posted by riley

I know this has already been adressed but:

Also if we evolved from apes, why are there still apes around today?

:bnghd:
GoldEagle.. we share a common ancestory with apes- with chimpanzies and all other primates because we are primates. Apes are like a cousin to our species- not a grandpa. Is there a limit to how may cousins someone can have?

I understand what you are saying, riley. But if we are all primates, wouldn't we be able to mate and produce offsping similar to horses and donkeys. Their offspring are sterile, but they do have offspring none the less. Why haven't we seen any ape human hybreds?
I'm not saying I would, but if the possibility exist, wouldn't we have seen the results by now?

why not ask the question "why there are different species of cats?"
"so many different species of dogs?"
if your saying that apes shouldn't exist because we evolved from them... isnt what im saying above kinda opening your eyes upto something?

apes have 48 chromosomes, us humans have 46... this is just one of the many reasons why we cant naturally (without genetical engineering) mate and reproduce with apes. hope thats helps

Originally posted by darkelf
I understand what you are saying, riley. But if we are all primates, wouldn't we be able to mate and produce offsping similar to horses and donkeys.

Sorry- got some real bad mental imagy happening here.

Their offspring are sterile, but they do have offspring none the less. Why haven't we seen any ape human hybreds?

Cheeser's right. We are very close genetically but not that close.. the ancestorial branch was too long ago.. however now and then you have babies born with tails [we climbed down from the trees] It's been speculated that humans and neandathals cross bred but we either wiped them out.. or if we bred them out human genes would dominate so it wouldn't be that noticable. [Also got the miniture people that were found but thats another story.]

I'm not saying I would, but if the possibility exist, wouldn't we have seen the results by now?

Even if it were possible.. who would do the deed [apart from sickos that should be neutered anyway]?
We naturally would not be sexually attracted to apes because breeding with them would detract from the species; not enhance it. I have met a few cave men in my day so that could be neadathal genes asserting themselves.

ROFL sorry about that mental imagery, riley. And cheeser the chromosome thing helped to clarify the answer to my question. I looked up the definition of primate and it helped me understand how they are classed. Science has never been my strong suit.

So I guess what you are saying is that apes did not evolve on one path (which is what I was taught in school many years ago) but they evolved on multiple paths and the apes we see today are not the same apes that we evolved from. Those are extinct because the newer version were more capable of survial. We are just one of those paths.

Is that close to what you mean?

Yep.

It is certainly true that a machine carefully made by a craftsman reflects the existence of its creator. It would be foolish to suggest that time and chance could make a computer or a microwave oven, or that the individual parts could form themselves into these complex mechanisms due to the physical properties of matter

He doenst explain why its so foolish. Just says we cant do this we cant do that we cant do bla bla…so it MUSTVE been done by GOD. Ooooh!!! Splendid logician we have.

the human brain is capable of storing and creatively manipulating seemingly infinite amounts of information

If we could process infinite amount of anything we’d be gods…now wont we? Apparently the concept of infinity just passed by the author of this article without stopping.

Materialists believe life in all its amazing forms consists merely of atoms and molecules

Is he keeping up with today’s science or is he stuck on page 1 of the Chemistry book from the 1800s?

Evolution is not as counterintuitive as some cool god creating everything in 6 days.

Can evolution be the source of life in all its complexity?

Your supposition is that instead, some omniscient deity has nothing better to do with his time than think up endless varieties of butterflies or worms, etc.? That supposition hardly fits the evidence.

The fossil evidence clearly shows the evolution of most creatures, and that they are a product of adaptation to their environment over time.

Originally posted by darkelf
So I guess what you are saying is that apes did not evolve on one path (which is what I was taught in school many years ago) but they evolved on multiple paths and the apes we see today are not the same apes that we evolved from. Those are extinct because the newer version were more capable of survial. We are just one of those paths.

Is that close to what you mean?

Exactly!
Further reading:
[I think there is an evololutionary tree on this one]
www.handprint.com...

Originally posted by riley
I have met a few cave men in my day so that could be neadathal genes asserting themselves.

What more proof can one ask for?

Thanks riley, for the info. I put it on my favorites so I can go back later and read it in depth.

Originally posted by Gazrok
The fossil evidence clearly shows the evolution of most creatures, and that they are a product of adaptation to their environment over time.

Yep, that's right. Looking only at primates now, fossil record clearly shows evolutionary changes from the earliest hominoids to humans today: change in skull and skeleton.

- from simply curved spine to complex curvature of human spine
- flattening of the face
- moving of the foramen magnum from the rear of the skull to the center base of the skull (adaptation to upright walking)
- changing from rectangular to U-shape jaw
- changes in hip bone, toes..... and many other.

There is evidence from the fossil record, that all this happened gradually throughout a LONG time period.

Many scientists are convinced that cells containing such a complex code and such intricate chemistry could never have come into being by pure, undirected chemistry. [139] No matter how chemicals are mixed, they do not create DNA spirals or any intelligent code whatsoever. Only DNA reproduces DNA. www.christiananswers.net...

I don't agree with that. According to the model known as the "RNA world", RNA was the first informational molecule to evolve leading to a self-sustaining cell.

en.wikipedia.org...