The Shia

I've only got a slight handle on this information, perhaps some of the well researched members and muslim members can help clarify some issues.

Essentially, the 'big split' in islam is between sunni and shia, which, as most of us non-muslims understand, is a dispute between who should be Caliph. But I am starting to realize that its more than just that.

The shia, from what I am starting to gather, are view as near, if not actual, apostates, they are thought to have scandalously corrupted the religion, and, apparently, many shia 'offshoots' are esoteric religions that revere other men as actual incarnations of God himself. So the Sunni view the Shia as a conspiracy to perverty and corrupt the pure monotheism of islam.

Am I at all correct in understanding this, or at least approaching the truth?

From what I gather, the Alawite sect, that of Bashar in Syria, are esoteric offshoots of a shia group (called 12ers, having 12 big imams (imam being equivalent to caliph, caliph equivalent to, well, not really anything in christianity, maybe more like Apostolic Succession, and perhaps then the Pope or Orthodox Patriarchs), beleive in incarnation of god, and that some of the Imams were indeed god made flesh. Also, apparently, the infamous Assasins (who still exist to this day in the levant) were another esoteric group that may have shot-off from shia'ism, and that they two had secret and strange beleifs.

The sufis, apparently, were also invovled in political intruge in the middle east, and I have even heard the Ishmaelites (I think this is just an alternate spelling of 'Isamili' Shia)refered to as "The Illuminati of the East" (a tongue-in-cheek reference I think tho, but illustrative), having installed one of their own as the Big Ruler in Persia.

Are the shia still looked upon as conspirators and secularlists and apostates? Ready to subvert the pure god-given governance of the Sunnis? And how prevalent is this thought to be? Are the regular people of, say, saudi arabia vulnerable to this superstition? Are the S'aud royals also beleivers in this tendecny torwards conspiracy? Or do they outlaw shia merely for not being a Sunni sect??

Comments, suggestions? I find the history here fascinating, I know I tend to look at islam as a rather monolithic thing, even if there is a Shia and Sunni distinction. But apparently there are lots of other smaller groups/sects invovled in this whole thing too. Any clarifications on what the Shia are conceived as (by shia and other muslims) would be great.

I hope there is someone knowledgable on this here.
This could easily play a part in soon to happen events in the mid-east region.

There was an article about this somewhere on the site that came up in a google search which brought me here.

Please, if you have the answers, teach.

The split among shia and sunni muslims occured after Muhammad's death. The shias believed that his successor (khalifa) should be Ali, his relative, but the majority of the muslims chose Abu Bakr.
The split became irrevocable when 2 of Muhammad's grandchildren were killed (Hassan and Hussien I think their names were). Everyone was traumatised, and they became instant martyrs (this is where the self-mutilation comes in...it is some kind of mourning).
Although shia's believe that only Muhammad's line should be khalifa, Muhammads line got lost a long while back. The shias are waiting for the line to "reappear". They believe that the Imam Mahdi will play a far greater role at the end of times than is attributed to him in orthodox Islam. They believe he will be of Muhammads line.
The shia's deify Muhammad's line, but I don't think they put 'em up on level with God. The reason for placing it so high is that they believe (as do all muslims) that the promise to Abraham extended to Ishmael as well. Therefore, Ishmael's line would be "Chosen". However, I don't think that Ishmaelites is an alternative name for the Ismailis. But I probably wouldn't know....I've never heard an anglized name for them. I don't think the sufi's are in any way connected to shias though.
The general hatred for shia's isn't a result of any conspiracy of theirs. They are just generally looked upon as "distorter's of the message" and "Dividers of the Ummah".
Islamic Countries where they are allowed to practice their faith freely, (such as Pakistan), generally have to protect them from militant groups who openly wish them dead.


[edit on 23-5-2005 by babloyi]

[quopte]The shia's deify Muhammad's line
I have heard some say this as meaning that they beleive the imams are incarnations of god himself, or some such.

Is this perhaps part of the conspiracy aspect? That the sunnis, who don't go for reincarnation of god and whatnot, think that the shia are therefore something like apostates and frauds, who conspire to destroy religion and the Justice that it brings??

Not incarnations of God, rather re-incarnations of Muhammad's spirit. Their Imam must be sinless, and in direct contact with God (sort of like the pope to the Catholics). They believe this can only be done through Muhammad's line.

I don't really think that there is a conspiracy in their behaviour. The Sunni's just dislike them because they believe that the shia's distorted much of Islam. The Sunni's believe that all are equal before God. Being of Muhammad's line doesn't make them divine.
The shia's have slightly different interpretations because they believe that Muhammad was coerced while he was sick from poison, so that he chose Abu Bakr for leading the prayers (symbolic for making him his successor) while he was sick, as well as being forced to make many other changes.

Aside from a few countries in the Middle East, and a few vocal and well thought off individuals, the Shia's don't really have much influence. I don't think there is any "Hidden Shia Illuminati" theory to weaken Islam. The Muslims already have the zionists to place blame on .
The Shia's however, do believe that there may be some hidden Sunni conspiracy that is suppressing Muhammad's line (sort of like the Davinci Code story).

[edit on 28-5-2005 by babloyi]

Originally posted by Nygdan

The shia, from what I am starting to gather, are view as near, if not actual, apostates, they are thought to have scandalously corrupted the religion, and, apparently, many shia 'offshoots' are esoteric religions that revere other men as actual incarnations of God himself. So the Sunni view the Shia as a conspiracy to perverty and corrupt the pure monotheism of islam.

From what I gather, the Alawite sect, that of Bashar in Syria, are esoteric offshoots of a shia group (called 12ers, having 12 big imams (imam being equivalent to caliph, caliph equivalent to, well, not really anything in christianity, maybe more like Apostolic Succession, and perhaps then the Pope or Orthodox Patriarchs), beleive in incarnation of god, and that some of the Imams were indeed god made flesh. Also, apparently, the infamous Assasins (who still exist to this day in the levant) were another esoteric group that may have shot-off from shia'ism, and that they two had secret and strange beleifs.

Am I at all correct in understanding this, or at least approaching the truth?

Historically , any group that claimed that they are followers of Imam Ali (pbuh) or any of his descendants (pbuh) they were called Shias .

Every sect that their believes does not contradict the sunni pillars of islam , are called muslims .

These pillars are :
1- Monotheism: The Oneness of Allah (tawhid)
2- Prophethood (nubuwwat)
3- The Day of Judgement and the Resurrection (qiyama)


In addition to these pillars , shia have 2 more ones , so the Shia pillars of Islam are :
1- Monotheism: The Oneness of Allah (Tawhid)
2- Divine Justice ('Adl)