Originally posted by akilles
The Knights were named after who Columbus was named after.

Akilles,

As much as you'd LIKE that to be true so it could fit into your pathetic conspiracy theory...it simply isn't so. The Knights of Columbus, were indeed, named after Christopher Columbus. It matters little at all who Christopher Columbus was named after. He didn't ASK his parents to be named after anyone.

My first name is John. I was named after my Grandfather (upon whom be peace) HE was named after his Uncle John. I, however, was NOT named after my Grandfather's Uncle John...I was named after my Grandfather.

Better go add up some silly numbers and post them to make yourself look credible (in your own mind) Try John (4 letters) "D" in the English Alphabet... = Devil, right? Sheeshh!

(Why do we continue this silly BS?)

On this thread have been made some terribly ironic remarks. Lets cut the real BS, and just get to it.

One member asked me if I even read people's responses before posting. The interesting truth is, I only learnt of said member's post when it was quoted by another member. The reason being the well-publicized fact that I have an ignore list of 1: The person who said I don't read what others post.... Hmm, sense the irony?

"Many people on the board say “Deny ignorance”, why don’t you deny your own"
Which people say it? Are you saying it to me, or are other people? Does it apply to everyone, and who decides what is ignorant, and what includes all information? How do we know there is such a thing as 'all information'? Ignorance applies to everyone, but I am clearly making an effort at considering alternatives to what we have been lied about, and I have been told there is no lie. Hmmm...


Karnes, you are named after Oannes, the same way that I am named after french Kings. The root of the name DOES matter, in fact, it should be the sole reason you choose a name if its not someone LIVING. I mean, I just find it strange that there are no towns, states, anything, named either Cristobal or Colon. Unless you count the COLONies, ha ha ha. Thats just for you Karnes.

I don't call that a superficial difference, its clear they wanted to use the name Columbia (British Columbia, Colombia, District of Columbia, etc.) regardless of its (lack of) connections to Cristobal Colon. A reasonable name change is for example, from Cobus to Jacob. Because you can say Jacobus is both names. But how is Columbus have anything to do with Colon? There is an "m", a "b", and an "s" added without reason.

And to say there is a reasonable answer, I ask you, are they Columbus' Knights, or Columbian Knights? Well that settles it, reckon.

[edit on 29-5-2005 by akilles]

Splicing a post. Now there is a sign of picking someone apart!

Atleast visibly, because if you could actually respond, you would do so in a coherent paragraph form. But hey, thats asking too much of some.

They clearly state Columbianism as their philosphy, Oan. I don't see why you bother to dispute they are followers of Columbianism who have been Knighted.

That you become Knighted before you are a follower is merely further evidence of how backwards it all is.

I also like how you suggest I hate the Church, when it is the Church that banned you, Oan, not I. Why are you trying to live vicariously? Trying to evoke emotions in others that you have long harbored?

Regardless, the only thing I am interested in is hidden symbolism, and those who deny its existence have tried to say I am fueled by hate, when this is clearly not enough fuel to have me crack open a book. I am fueled by all the little lies, you call it consensus reality, and I call it the lie generally agreed upon.

And of course, asking for a source on hidden symbolism is proof in itself. There are only books purporting to give full analysis of alchemical, tarot, nordic rune symbolism, there is no reference book for word of mouth knowledge. People have a hard time with this...

But the proof is in the pudding. And the statue of liberty and Columbia pictures, hmmm, I just don't see the link... Goddess, goddess, where is there anything to do with a goddess in Columbia pictures?

And the statue of liberty, she was modelled after a real person right? What, its just a big female idol? A goddess then. No big deal, we are open-minded people, you don't have to tell us its a giant statue of an ancient goddess, just let us figure it out for ourselves, then deny it.

Originally posted by akilles
But how is Columbus have anything to do with Colon? There is an "m", a "b", and an "s" added without reason.

Actually, COLON is Columbus' name in Spanish. This is a pretty well-known fact, and only someone who attempts to find conspiracy in everything could not see past this.

One member asked me if I even read people's responses before posting. The interesting truth is, I only learnt of said member's post when it was quoted by another member. The reason being the well-publicized fact that I have an ignore list of 1: The person who said I don't read what others post.... Hmm, sense the irony?

Actually, I was asking you if you read OTHER people's posts, not my own. I know you ignore me, and I don't care. My questions was if you take the time to read OTHER people's posts, such as Senrak, Axeman, or the other multitude of guys who continually ask you valid questions and debunk your claims.

You ignore me bacause I back you into a corner everytime you start spouting your B.S. on these forums, and you have no way to defend yourself, so you simply ignore me. It's a typical troll tactic. I'm not surprised one bit that you can't be a man and either pony up some valid claims, or admit that you are mistaken.

Every time someone post something about the Knights of Columbus you always say the same thing. Come up with something new it is always the same rantings..

Now can you answer the question I asked several times in the past? What are your beliefs?

You always mention symbolism but you have a five pointed star as your avatar. Do you know what the meaning of the five pointed star is? I am sure you are going to search the internet for it.

I appreciate all of you bumping up my ATS points with your hate-filled arguing, but could we maybe tone it down a little bit? Can we all just get along... for the kids?

Originally posted by senrak

I also like how you suggest I hate the Church, when it is the Church that banned you, Oan, not I.

The Church BANNED me? What? I don't think so. If you mean because I'm a Mason, that's laughable. Several of my good friends are Masons and Roman Catholics. One of the several Roman Churches here in my hometown is right around the corner and I often attend Mass there. No one accosts me at the door and tells me not to come in because I'm a Mason. So I can't imagine what that nonsense is all about.

Man, Akilles is just ALL backwards today, isn't he? I've always known his sense of logic was slightly off, but his last post is evidence that it's completely f#$%ed up!

You have several friends who are catholic, including ME, and none have been banned from thewir church. People at my church are VERY aware that I'm a mason. I even talked with one of the priests about it, they all know. And what happens when I enter the church? They say "hello"! Oh, The insanity! The hatred! Why oh WHY was I banned from church!?!?!? Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Please Akilles, grow up and do something we all do in our lives: learn.


[edit on 29-5-2005 by sebatwerk]

I am a Knight and an officer of my Council - one of the oldest in the Order. Preparing to take my 4th degree in November.
Let me share what my Brother Knights and I have been up to lately...

donated over $1000 to Katrina relief
worked in regional homeless shelters
donated over $1000 to the victims of the Tsunami
raised about $2000 to support Special Olympics
sponsoring creepy activities like a free throw contest, a soccer kick contest, essay contest, and - perhaps in a year or so - a little league team! Oh.. the humanity!

We also work individually to support our families, our parishes, and our communities. I have yet to ask if someone I have helped is a Brother Knight, a Roman Catholic, a Christian, a pagan, or an Acturian...our Order was founded to help those in need. And we do.

The Fourth Degree - while not a member yet, I am sure I can speak with a degree of confidence - is called the Patriotic Degree. Unless we use the swords for demon slaying, I gather that the purpose of the Honor Guard is to serve as a symbol of Catholic men for church and community.

As to the Masons - many of my family were Masons; one of my favorite uncles was called Hiram... I believe this is a name with some significance to Masons. Ritual and secrecy is - sorry Conspiricianistas - sometimes simply a form of creating and cultivating bonds of friendship, fraternity, and loyalty. Do I believe that there are groups with hidden and perhaps harmful agendas? Of course I do. Do I believe in an active and real prescence of evil at work in the world? I truly do. Do I believe that the Masons are manipulating the world? If they are, they hide it well. I don't know too many Masons who wield ultimate power and resources.

As to the pagan elements in the Order - or in Catholicism in general - please. Saints are simply people who lived lives so holy that Catholics are convinced now dwell in Heaven. We can argue eternally about the adoption of pagan 'gods' into the Roman Catholic catalog of saints, but these are simply theories. One of the problems many people have with the concept of Faith is that it cannot be proven, it cannot be tested, it cannot be explained. It simply is a matter of conviction. If I choose to believe that there are people who lived lives so pure that they are in Heaven, isn't that my business? I have never prayed to a Saint; I have asked for their intercession; to wit a request that one who I believe dwells in God's Grace will hear my plea and work on my behalf.

When Father McGivney gathered a handful of men in the basement of St. Mary's, he was seeking to establish an organization that would protect and ward the widows and orphans of Catholic men. Why Columbus? Why not? While historians tacitly agree that Columbus never stepped foot on North American soil, he certainly had the credit in the 19th century. Choosing Columbus as our patron was a means of establishing a sense of patriotism and acceptance of the homeland adopted by these mostly immigrant Catholic men.

But, what do I know? I am a member of a creepy secret society who considered becoming a Jesuit at one time. Perhaps that makes me a double threat. A part of me may be disappointed that I am not a member of an shadow organization that is manipulating the world, but it is my silly part. Perhaps some of the high degree Masons might be willing to form an alliance??? Let's talk!

shantyman, congratulations on making your 4th degree in November, I'm sure you will enjoy honor guard very much. The 4th degree is the visible arm of the order, and be sure to get involved as much as you can. You will see similiarites and differences in assembly meetings over council meetings. Be sure to greet us in November when you are officially exemplifed as a Sir Knight!!!

SK John

Resurrecting an old thread...

I guess the KC induction could be "creepy" if you are five years old. What makes something "creepy" is subjective.

The induction ceremony was changed circa 1975-1984. That was before I joined, but word is the old ceremony was more "stressful", and was changed for liability purposes.

the knights of columbus were in the mash books.

its true if anyone reads them!

The KofC and its ceremonies are secret but not creepy. Without giving specifics, the ceremony reminds one of your mortality and to be vigilant of Gods will throughout your life. The KofC was founded in the early 1900's to support the Irish communities back east, who were often denied work and priviledges due to their Catholic background. The organization who was looking after Irish laborers would often give financial assistance to widows of men killed in mines or other work and provide a network where one could find employment in those days. The organization has grown very large and is still closely aligned with the Catholic Church and provides discounted bennefits to members such as Insurance and other services. The ceremony really should not be the focus here as it is not creepy at all. I did read some very well reasoned items on this thread regarding the KofC and I appreciate the effort to answer this mans questions without the resorting to the usual jabs and the Church.

Thanks
Mystereman_1 & K of C Member

Originally posted by The Axeman
That is a particularly vicious stereotype. Just because some have been accused and some even proven to have done such things doesn't make all priests bad. T

SOME?!?!
20,000 cases of child molestation brought against the church in 20 years, and thats just the ones who came forward. With cases against 4,392 priests.

On top of that the Catholic church moved these criminals from parish to parish to protect them and their selfish organization.

Because of the way these secretive animals operate the child molesters get away with this activity for decades. There are cases where these guys have done this for forty freakin' years.

If people want to paint a broad stroke that Catholics are child molesters, better for them, it will keep them out of harms way and keep their hard earned dollars from supporting an institution of insanity.

Columbus only took the credit when he didn't even get as far as North America and I can see the point that rasputin was only trying to make in a round about way. It's ridiculous that molestation and such can be told in secrecy, there's no place for it. No wonder some of the freemasons want to jump to the aid of the KofC on this one. JMHO.