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The end of universe

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posted on May, 22 2005 @ 07:42 AM
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Does the Universe have an edge or end? This assumes FTL travel that would let us go where we wanted as fast as we wanted

All matter was in the dot before the Big Bang . It exploded...and everything spread out.
Two logical conclusions seem to come out of this...

1.) Space...the universe..has an end or edge where stuff is still spreading

2.) Beyond that edge...things that thrive inside the universe...cannot go. Its like a fish leaving water. We cant go. So 'space' is actually 'something substantial'.

Am I making sense with this?

Does the universe have an edge or end beyond which we couldnt go if we had the means to travel there, using the Big Bang as the beginning?

Maybe your answers will better define the question




posted on May, 22 2005 @ 07:57 AM
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I don't believe the universe can have an edge or end. If it has an edge or ending, what is on the other side of that edge? It must be infinite in every direction where it never ends. Fathom that.



posted on May, 22 2005 @ 09:14 AM
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``

for me, in my mindscape,

i use the earth as planet model
its surrounded by an atmosphere
which gets thinner as we get to its edge (outerspace)
there is no definite boundary/membrane/field

much like the big bangs 'creation horizon'
which is where the matter universe is expanding
into the 'non-matter-universe'

-expanding, at least at speed-of-light velocity-

that 'creation horizon' or 'event horizon' is likely
500,000,000 LY thick....as scientists estimate
thats when stars first shone then forming
globular cluster/ galaxies.
So too, the present 'edge of the universe'
which is forever extending 'strings' of energies
into the nothingness as more 'strings' intertwine
and overlap and become layered, then quanta
& quarks are created which cluster into sub-atomic
particles, then link & cluster to atoms> eventually
into stars which incubate the heavier-denser stuff

i'm awaiting tomorrows full moon, good-day



posted on May, 22 2005 @ 09:35 AM
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It's more likely that rather than an end, space become more and more compressed as you reach the outer boundary of the extent to which the universe has spread. This would make it appear infinite, since the space probably reaches such a state of compression that it would appear to take an infinite amount of time to traverse.



posted on May, 22 2005 @ 09:49 AM
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Well, there is no edge, first off. It's hard to explain how it works, but all of existance doesn't end; there isn't anything to separate it from nonexistance. This is assuming a flat universe.

Also, don't forget that space can travel faster than light.



posted on May, 22 2005 @ 09:56 AM
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About the density of the outer edge...

It should be thinner, and as Amorymelzer said...faster.
Time should then be slower there.
Near the center (closer to the center) time would be faster, and space denser.

I cannot yet get past the logic that follows the Big Bang...that there should be an edge



posted on May, 22 2005 @ 10:10 AM
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One possible finite geometry is donutspace or more properly known as the Euclidean 2-torus, is a flat square whose opposite sides are connected. Anything crossing one edge reenters from the opposite edge (like a video game see 1 above). Although this surface cannot exist within our three-dimensional space, a distorted version can be built by taping together top and bottom (see 2 above) and scrunching the resulting cylinder into a ring (see 3 above). Source


I think, as amory said, its dependant on the shape of space/time. And remember the exspansion is not coming from a center point. The galaxies are not moving, the space between them is literally expanding.

Here is another good link discussing the paradox you describe.zebu.uoregon.edu...

(edit) fixed last link

[edit on 22-5-2005 by Rren]


Dae

posted on May, 22 2005 @ 03:40 PM
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The big bang , I think, is more like an event than an explosion with an edge. The universe expansion they tell us about may not be related, per se, to the big bang.

It is true though that the universve could be rushing along to break another symmetry, the electromagnetic force perhaps?



posted on May, 22 2005 @ 04:33 PM
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I don't believe that our universe has an edge per say . . . I believe on the constant expansion of the universe.

It is difficult to imagine something that goes forever . . . because our own conception of mortality we are born and we die, so we have an end . . . all the living things we know have a beginning and an end to match our own mortality.

So when we talk about the universe that is continuously expanding is difficult to imaging not ending or edge but as we move forward it keeps on going with not end.

As humans we will never reach the end of our universe or even be able to go alone on a ride with expansion, due to the fact that, we as a species are not evolve enough to understand how to accomplish such a thing.

For now we depend in our own theories and imagination to understand something that is beyond our capabilities of comprehension.

Remember is not such a thing as nothingness or emptiness, even if the theory of the big bang has some truth in it, it has to be something in order for expansion to continue.

Or perhaps particles just pop contiguously to create matter as the universe expands.



posted on May, 22 2005 @ 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
It is difficult to imagine something that goes forever


Luckily, the universe doesn't go on forever. It has a finite volume at any given time. It's difficult to imagine everything. It's difficult to imagine the concept of there not being an end to the universe because there is only the universe, and "end" has no meaning as such. It's difficult to imagine me becoming valedictorian.



posted on May, 22 2005 @ 08:23 PM
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A valedictorian you said is difficult for you to imagine . . . but is something that is achievable not beyond reach.

While our comprehension of eternity and an ever expanding universe is something that we can only imagine because we have never been at the exact point where the universe expands.

Been able to become a valedictorian is achievable in a life time span, but . . . reaching the point of universe expansion is not in the same life span and never will be for our present state of human evolution.

Our Universe moves in a time span that is not conceivable or understandable in human terms.

To the universe we are just but a flash of thought that has become already the past.

I am not an expert of quantum physics so I am just posting what I understand and persive of the information I read about the theories of our "expanding universe"



posted on May, 22 2005 @ 09:31 PM
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there may be an end to the universe
we just may never find it in out lifetime
as you know the "big bang" created the universe but according to scientists there is somthing having to do with the "electromagnetic spectrum". some how using this "electromagnetic spectrum" we have a universe that is constantly expanding.
there is also a theory that says somewhat the opposite. we may supposedly have an end to our universe but on the otherside of a black hole we may have other universes with other life forms.
and at last there may also be a theory that we have parallel universes with parallel life forms.



posted on May, 22 2005 @ 09:47 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
A valedictorian you said is difficult for you to imagine . . . but is something that is achievable not beyond reach.


Humor, darling, humor.


While our comprehension of eternity and an ever expanding universe is something that we can only imagine because we have never been at the exact point where the universe expands.


One of the beautiful things about the universe is that every point is zooming away from every other point, so every single point has an equal and irrefutable claim to being the center of the universe. (hint: it's me)


Our Universe moves in a time span that is not conceivable or understandable in human terms.


The universe is blazing by itself at speeds unimaginably faster than unimaginable speeds. We won't ever reach anything close to the current edge.



posted on May, 22 2005 @ 10:20 PM
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Rren,
The galaxies are stationary and the space between them is expanding?

Please expound!



posted on May, 22 2005 @ 10:42 PM
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I think einstein said there is a definate end but he said we wont have to worry about it. perhaps a more philosphical viewpoint than scientific is in order. maybe beyond the edge is where what we call God resides in fact i have always believed that. sound too childish? my problem with big bang is that it assumes matter condensed to such a point that it exploded. now this being the case, where did the matter come from? how did it achieve such a state.

One thing that might be possible is that we are on a segment in an infinite amount of universes. when a black hole has swallowed enough matter and cant give off all the energy by radiation, than perhaps it spawns another universe in the fashion we think ours did. (not within our own universe) If this was true there could be an infinite amount of universe constanly spawning and dieing off.



posted on May, 22 2005 @ 11:00 PM
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Originally posted by Realist05
Rren,
The galaxies are stationary and the space between them is expanding?

Please expound!


This link explains the expansion well, as long with many other astronomical questions: Frequently asked questions in cosmology


Are galaxies really moving away from us or is space just expanding?
This depends on how you measure things, or your choice of coordinates. In one view, the spatial positions of galaxies are changing, and this causes the redshift. In another view, the galaxies are at fixed coordinates, but the distance between fixed points increases with time, and this causes the redshift. General relativity explains how to transform from one view to the other, and the observable effects like the redshift are the same in both views. Part 3 of the tutorial shows space-time diagrams for the Universe drawn in both ways.


So i guess technically it could be both

I'm no expert or anything but the way i understood it, new space is constantly being created in deep inter-galactic space increasing the distances between galaxies.(ie they are not moving apart). The typical balloon model(put dots on balloon, and inflate) of the Universe is slighly misleading in that its a 2d model of a 3d reality(ie, no edge and no center) hard to visualize something like that.



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 04:07 AM
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I am no expert either but back in the day they beleived the earth to be flat and turns out it was round just as any planet that we can see. So my conclusion would be a never ending one. Let me try and explain.........

A circle is round so it has no beginning or end like somthing flat would have. So My conclusion would be never ending within itslef.... a void with both a beginning, and an end all in one. Alpha and Omega



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 11:31 AM
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An edge can be defined when substances on either side are known..

In this case.. one only can theorise what space(the universe) might be like on our side of this "edge"..We don't know how space behaves at the fringes of existence.
And the other side.. well thats beyond theories and imagination even!!..
How can one define a void which aren't occupied by voids even



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 03:53 PM
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So using this last logic as the model,
not only would we not be able to exist on the other side of the furthest edge of space, it is not even imaginable.

It is like the other side of life itself. We cant fathom what the other side of something that is different then anything else we have experienced, looks, feels, sounds, tastes like.

On the other side of the edge of the expanding universe, is the afterlife?



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by jake1997
So using this last logic as the model,
not only would we not be able to exist on the other side of the furthest edge of space, it is not even imaginable.

It is like the other side of life itself. We cant fathom what the other side of something that is different then anything else we have experienced, looks, feels, sounds, tastes like.

On the other side of the edge of the expanding universe, is the afterlife?


I guess one theory is as good as another when talking about what's "outside" of the known Universe


It's something that is impossible to measure or study. Could that be where Heaven is, i have no idea. But it works for me
Their is no physics or math to explain such a thing, past the singularity(whether it's the big bang or a black hole) it's anyones guess.




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