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Free will and perception...

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posted on Jun, 13 2005 @ 08:50 PM
Caution:Incoming Deterministic Swine

This topic is the most difficult one of probably any in the world and forms the basis of all other fields since its our own minds we question.

Now then, from a purely biological standpoint and assuming the world is devoid of "chaos" as in absolute randomness, God, magic, or any other unapplicable things, every action is predictable and happens due to the actions that came before it. Atoms bumping into each other cause everything. This implies that minds cannot have a totally "free will" choice and everything is influenced by stimuli. Zoom up into biological systems, every creature, exluding us for the moment, runs on a simple logic engine that is driven by instinct that has evolved over the years. They try to maximize their sucess in life by eating more, or getting a more productive female or avoiding death.
Simple, built-in logic, yes?

Humans are much more of an annoying puzzle. They seem to have "conflicting" systems of evolution. They have not only the built-in logic drive, but also seem to have "emotions" which may be part of the instincts and may not. They finally have the higher level logic processing that creates self-aware thought. (I've never compiled my ideas on the brain, which is a mighty large topic, before in this fashion, point out errors.)

The built-in logic allows us to make obvious choices like "avoid pain, or "eat as much as possible while you have it. Easy to spot evolutionary stuff. Emotions seem to be a more social system based on mating and interaction and thus are more difficult to predict, but none the less obvious in their application, of course when viewed objectively from an emotionless watcher. The high level logic is any concious thinking we do and we know the reason in which we do it. This is also easy one to spot, such as not spending all your money, or not eating as much as possible.
Obviously this makes for conflicts, but I'll get to that later.

I probably sounded somewhat Freudian which those 3 terms, but even whith those 3 terms, how do we fit the ever-present "subconcious".....
That word is terribly difficult to define and explain. It seems uniquely human and perhaps uses all three of the methods of decision making to form a "final" action based on the given imput.

The instinct and emotions tend to point to evolutionary backgrounds, as does the evolved sense of high level logic, however, they conflict in an odd manner. Even better, the higher level logic is AWARE of this battle. However it is often overwhelmed by the other two. High level logic is often looking after the other two in our own best interest. Of course, both emotions and built in logic are also doing "the best for us" and thus the conflict occurs.

Perception is in which of the three ways we make our actions. Unfortunetly, we will never be free of all of them so that we may make a judgement on them. Perhaps someday a mighty computer will be asked the question and give us a REAL answer to our great mystery.

posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 09:30 PM
Guess no one has a reply for me, oh well.

posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 10:14 PM
When it comes down to it, humans are surprisingly hedonistic, especially at high levels of wealth. If you ignore the extra parts (computers, language, etc.) that separate us from other creatures, a lot of what we do, while we may think about it, is very much in line with what instinct would have us do.

[edit on 6/17/2005 by Amorymeltzer]

posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 11:03 PM
Good thread!

Man can exercise freewill as long as the environment he lives in allowes it. In the grand scheme of things man hasent been exercising freewill very long. Not to long ago our communication was limited to grunts and glottle clicks. We pride ourselves on being hip and civilized but if things went south we would revert to savagery in a flash.

ED Abby said if we go without water for seven days we would drink the blood of our own children. So much for freewill.

This may be extreme but iv'e seen people return to savagery over a parking place!!

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if animals don't exercise freewill; We are much closer to being animals than truely sentient beings.

[edit on 17-6-2005 by whaaa]

[edit on 17-6-2005 by whaaa]

posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 10:27 AM
I wouldn't call the high level logic, or self awareness, an instinct per say, mostly because allows us to override the low level instincts.

Emotions seem to be just for mating. Go figure.

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