NEWS: RCC Denies Rice Communion Host to Girl Who Can't Eat Wheat

Originally posted by Quake
Sounds silly, but I never thought about this before. If a parent serves his child alcohol(wine) before the age of 21 can he/she be put in jail

There's an exception to that for sacramental wine in religious ceremonies.

I find it most incredible that the Mast Head of ASTNN states: "Deny Bias" yet the relpies to this Consecrated Host issue reveals the most vehement anti-Catholic hatred one could imagine.

Seems bigotry and hypocrisy exist everywhere even where people pretend to have an open mind.

I also recall that the rules for posting stipulate against flaming and attacks. Hmm! Is irreverent references to "crackers" for Holy Communion not an example of this. Well so much for high minded liberal thinking, It seems even they have their own pet bigotry which is allowable by their own double standards.

Richard of Danbury

Richard of Danbury

Originally posted by Richard of Danbury
... the relpies to this Consecrated Host issue reveals the most vehement anti-Catholic hatred one could imagine.

Seems bigotry and hypocrisy exist everywhere even where people pretend to have an open mind.

...It seems even they have their own pet bigotry which is allowable by their own double standards.

O-K, everyone go back and review their posts. We wouldn't want to be exposed as virulent Catholic hating bigots on a rampage to destroy anything even remotely sacred.

It was my impression the Vatican policy was under review, not Catholics per se. I would like to hear what Sister Joan Chittister would have to say about it, and indeed if she would condem questioning the Vatican such as we all here have been.

I was raised Catholic so is it alright if I criticize the church? Ok? Thanks.

I find the idea that the host and wine are actually real flesh and blood ridiculous. I've started calling the church a caniballistic death cult. They eat what they think is flesh, and drink what they think is blood then they worship the imagine of a mutilated dead man (oops, did I say man) on a cross. Man, and the thing where they leave the rotting corpse of the Pope out for days....eww. Didn't the nose of one of the Popes fall off when he was lying in state? Anyway, seems there's a strange fixation on death followed closely by the value of suffering.

One time during communion, I palmed the host and put it in my pocket. Later I pulled it out for examination. No matter how much I looked, poked, or smelled it, the thing still looked like bread to me. I even put the thing under the microscope. Flesh and bread have completely different properties you see. Maybe using science to examine something "divine" destroys the divine nature of it. You know, kind of like when Gallieo used a telescope to destroy the glass sphere around the Earth and forced the entire universe to stop revolving around the planet. Or maybe if you don't believe the divine characteristics of the host don't manifest...kind of like with Santa.

Now as to the actual topic. I don't see what difference it makes whether the host is rice-based or wheat. Can't the Lord change anything into warm flesh with his Jesus-magic? Besides, I'm sure he understands food allergies since he created them...right?

I do have to wonder about why the girl and her parents care that much. I suppose I understand, having been religious myself at one point (0-7 years old), but you figure this refusal of something important would tell them something.... Oh well.

Perhaps if there were a microdot of wheat, something so miniscule it would not affect the girl, and if it were placed on the rice wafer, then everyone would be happy?

After all how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Also "with God all things are possible," so as WC Fields said on his deathbed while reading a Bible, "Looking for loopholes, young man, looking for loopholes."

Originally posted by Flinx
I was raised Catholic so is it alright if I criticize the church? Ok? Thanks.

No it isn't O-K. Not until you have explored the global definition of the Church, and even then, with temperance.

And do try to get people vs. doctrine vs. institution correct please. No one likes to be lumped into generalizations, and it gives this Duke of Earl more ammunition to use against us.

Subsequent posts on this subject support my allegations of rampant anti-Catholic bigotry on this list, even for those alleged to have been raised Catholic.

Insulting references to what many consider sacred are not just comments of Vatican policy, rather they are just vitriolic hate masquerading as critique.

I rest my case.

Richard of Danbury

Originally posted by Matyas

Originally posted by Flinx
I was raised Catholic so is it alright if I criticize the church? Ok? Thanks.

No it isn't O-K. Not until you have explored the global definition of the Church, and even then, with temperance.

I thought you were kidding before when you said this...

Originally posted by Matyas
O-K, everyone go back and review their posts. We wouldn't want to be exposed as virulent Catholic hating bigots on a rampage to destroy anything even remotely sacred.

Guess not.

And do try to get people vs. doctrine vs. institution correct please. No one likes to be lumped into generalizations, and it gives this Duke of Earl more ammunition to use against us.

Oh please. Our Falstaff here is this thread's only vitriolic hate masquerading as critique. What puffed up outrage and martyrdom, and it just keeps coming! :shk:

Originally posted by Richard of Danbury
I rest my case.

Promise?

[edit on 23-5-2005 by RANT]

Originally posted by djohnsto77
A New Jersey girl with cellac sprue disease, a disease that makes eating wheat products dangerous to one's health, has been denied using a rice alternative to the traditional wheat wafer used by the Roman Catholic Church in the communion sacrament. If the girl did consume wheat, her small intestine could be damaged by the protein gluten that exists in all wheat products. Although a priest did consecrate a rice wafer for her one time, the church later said that it was invalid and did not represent the body of Christ.

 

www.newsday.com
ATLANTIC CITY, N.J. -- The mother of a girl whose first Holy Communion was declared invalid met Tuesday with Diocese of Trenton Bishop John M. Smith but gained no ground in her quest to have the Roman Catholic Church relax its requirements for communion wafers.

Liz Pelly-Waldman, 31, of Brielle, had a one-hour private audience with Smith, asking that the diocese help her persuade the Vatican to change its rules so that 9-year-old Haley Waldman _ who suffers from celiac sprue disease and cannot consume wheat _ can receive a rice-based host for the sacrament, which commemorates the Last Supper of Jesus Christ before his crucifixion.

"I went to the bishop today and I said I understand and respect the fact that this is not to be decided by the diocese. I asked the bishop if he would facilitate my communications with the Vatican, since that is who makes this law, and he out-and-out refused," said Pelly-Waldman.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

Why does the RCC have to be this way about things like this? Do you really think Jesus would deny her communion because she medically can't eat wheat? Sheesh...

Related News Links:
Living Without: Wheat-Free Worship

[edit on 5/21/2005 by djohnsto77]

the Roman Catholic church is a whore anyway come on out of her Jesus doesn't need them, and neither sdoes that little girl!!!!!

Originally posted by RANT

I thought you were kidding before when you said this...

Originally posted by Matyas
O-K, everyone go back and review their posts. We wouldn't want to be exposed as virulent Catholic hating bigots on a rampage to destroy anything even remotely sacred.

Guess not.

Umm, before or after? I was never actually kidding except for placing bets. There is virulence here, it doesn't seem like such a level playing field to discuss the issue. Mint of Flynt is pounding his chest and guiding the thread off topic to hatred and bigotry, whilst an issue that may or may not have a significant impact on a billion people remains unadressed.

As a Buddhist I recognize the Catholic Church as having contributed a great deal to society as a whole because the same society held them to a higher standard just because of their past. Since then, of late certain schisms have wounded her deeply, and I am interested in seeing if the future of the church will be played out in this particular case.

And do try to get people vs. doctrine vs. institution correct please. No one likes to be lumped into generalizations, and it gives this Duke of Earl more ammunition to use against us.

Oh please. Our Falstaff here is this thread's only vitriolic hate masquerading as critique. What puffed up outrage and martyrdom, and it just keeps coming! :shk:

Maybe, we will see. I will give that the benefit of the doubt since you have seniority over me, and therfore know the lay of the land better than I.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Why does the RCC have to be this way about things like this? Do you really think Jesus would deny her communion because she medically can't eat wheat?

There is absolutely no problem here. The fact that this made it to the
news is stupid. The little girl can drink the Precious Blood - the wine.
She doesn't have to have a communion host to receive communion.
We have a little friend - she's 9 - with the same disease. That's what
she does - drink. No biggie.

The other priest should have known better than to concecrate the
rice host. That is completely against church teaching. He was wrong.
The family causing a stink is wrong. Drink. It's that simple. The rules
are there for a reason. Everyone, including the family, should read
WHY before they whine about the Roman Catholic Church.

Originally posted by Flinx
I find the idea that the host and wine are actually real flesh and blood ridiculous.

Then you aren't Catholic. If you don't believe in transubstantiation
you aren't Catholic, no matter what you say or claim and no matter
what church you may or may not have been raised in.

One time during communion, I palmed the host and put it in my pocket. Later I pulled it out for examination. No matter how much I looked, poked, or smelled it, the thing still looked like bread to me.

Stupid thing to do. You were taught (or should have been taught)
that when transubstantiation happens, the accidentals (bread/wine)
look and taste the same, but the body and blood of Christ are very
much there. Taking communion and 'poking it' and putting it under
a microscope was ignorant. OF COURSE nothing would look different.
You had already been told that.

Suggestion - if you want to 'see' some consecrated Eucharists that
God has allowed us to see Christ in - google up Eucharistic miracles.
It's much less sacrilegious that way.

Originally posted by Jehosephat
Would the Catholic church please show me in the bible the
type of bread and wine that Jesus used in the Passover meal
when he first gave communion? Can't find it can you?

Back the turnip truck up Jehosephat. YES we definately DO know
what type of bread was used at the Passover meal. Unleaven and
wheat. It's HISTORICAL. Look it up. Check with the Jewish folks
and they will tell you. Passover has remained much the same as
since the time of Moses. There is information OUTSIDE of the bible
that is accurate and informative. Give it a try.

www.catholic.com...

And NO the Catholic church does NOT believe that Communion
in the Catholic chuch is 'just a symbol'. Not at all. Read the
above article. Educate yourselves.

Thats the funny thing about Sola Scripturists ... they seem to forget
that the bible doesn't contain everything and it doesn't have all
truths written in it. The bible even says that it doesn't. So for
anyone to point at the bible and say ... 'show me where it is in
the bible ... only the bible ... blah blah blah' ... that goes against
what the bible itself says. The bible itself says that it doesn't
contain all truths and all of Christ's teaching. It also says that many
things were orally communicated and to hang on to the sacred oral
teachings and to pass them down.

'if all Jesus' teachings were written down, then there
wouldn't be enough books in the world to hold them
all'.

- some scripture quotes that support sacred traditions and
oral teachings -

Mark 4:33 - "With many such parables he spoke the word to them .."
(what were the others? Scripture doesn't contain ...)
Mark 6:34 "He began to teach them many things."
(what things? Scripture doesn't contain)
John 16:12 "I have yet many things to say to you, but you can not
bear them now."
(what things? Scripture doesn't contain)
Jon 20:30 - "now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the
disciples, which are not written in this book"
(what things? Scripture doesn't contain)
John 21:25 "But there are also many other things which Jesus did;
were every one of them to be written, I suppose the world itself could
not contain the books that would be written."
Acts 1:2-3 - To the apostles he presented himself alive after his
passion by many proofs, appearing to them during forty days,
and speaking of the kingdom of God"
(what things were taught? It's not written down)
See also Luke 24:15-16, 25-27

So we have Sacred tradition and oral teachings ... which the bible
encourages us to use.

1 Cor 11:2 - "Maintain the traditions ... even as I have delivered them to you."
2 Thess 2:15 "Hold to the traditions .. taught by word of mouth or by letter."
2 Thess 3:6 "... traditions that you received from us"
1 Cor 15:1 - " ... the Gospel, which you received ..."
1 Gal 1:9 - " ... the gospel .. which you received."
1 Thes 2:9 - "we preached to you the gospel of God"
1 Thes 2:13 - "when you received the word of God which you heard
from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but as what it really
is, the word of God"
2 Tim 1:13-14: "Follow the pattern of the sound words which you have
heard from me'

The amount of anti-Catholic bigotry here is astounding. And
ATS considers itself to 'deny ignorance'.

The Catholic church has it's way of doing things and has it's
reasons for doing them. You don't believe it? Fine. Go away.
The Catholic church isn't pushing itself on anyone, unlike the
Fundamentalist protestant cult that is driven to 'convert'
everyone to thinking exactly like them.

www.globalpolicy.org...
www.bidstrup.com...
www.dimensional.com...
www.newreformation.org...
www.global-vision.org...

Originally posted by RANT
Dressed up like a million dollar trouper
Trying hard to look like Gary Cooper (super duper)

Everyone tries to look like me, but few suceed.

Hey, I am a celiac - and if I were the girls parents - I would immediately remove myself from such a stupid venture as believing in the Catholics. Maybe they should ask the priests to starve themselves to the point of exhaustion or break out with DH ( a common trait for Celiacs which resembles Herpes all over your body - never mind the horrific itching). Celiacs who remove themselves from Gluten regain energy and feel well. Those who don't; suffer malabsorption of nutrients because the body attacks gluten in the small intestine like a plague. The body produces antigens, which makes you break out into herpes-like sores of puss on your arms, thighs, chest, hands - pretty much anywhere. It scratches like crazy for a long time until you quit eating anything with gluten; wheat, barley, rye, or oats.

When you feel tired and weak like you have the flu constantly, then the stupid Catholic priests would know what gluten will do to someone like this. I already knew the Catholics entertain silly dogma, but this takes the cake. I guess they miss the point that Jesus died for all sins, once and for all. There are no further stipulations or conditions. True love IS unconditional. I never read anywhere where it says "Blessed are ye who believeth in me - except if you don't eat and drink of the sacriment.", "Do not deny the children, for the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to such as these who refuse not wheat and wine.".

What a frickin' joke.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
The amount of anti-Catholic bigotry here is astounding. And
ATS considers itself to 'deny ignorance'.

FlyersFan, please don't fall victim to the prevailing winds that blow here every time the RCC is criticized, just like any other gold hoarding hierarchy of power grubbing, organized metaphysical tyranny would be on any conspiracy site.

The Catholic church has it's way of doing things and has it's
reasons for doing them. You don't believe it? Fine. Go away.

Couldn't agree more. And quite similarly for those that don't like reading criticism of those beliefs...

The Catholic church isn't pushing itself on anyone, unlike the
Fundamentalist protestant cult that is driven to 'convert'
everyone to thinking exactly like them.

Stop making sense!

Really, the whole Protestant/Catholic dogfight is almost as entertaining (and pointless) as the Christian/Muslim one, but taking a side in any of it is folly IMO.

Originally posted by RANT
the RCC is criticized, just like any other gold hoarding
hierarchy of power grubbing, organized metaphysical
tyranny would be on any conspiracy site.

Ahhhh yes ... if it were being criticized for being gold
hoarding, power grubbing, and being an organized metaphysical
tyranny I wouldn't be going . I would probably agree
with much of it. However, some folks just want to bash and
hate ... just because they don't want people to be able to
worship how they wish or they don't understand WHY people
believe the way they do therefore ... it must be stupid or wrong.

If you don't worship the way I think God ought to be worshipped
then you are stupid and/or going to Hell - That mentality is dumb
and/or sick - depending on it's level of absorbtion into the every-
day life of the victim of that thought process and how vocal they
are about it.

If people want to say that wheat communion is silly in the Catholic
church. That's fine. To say that there is no biblical/historical
evidence therefore the church is wrong ... well, that's wrong.
To say the Catholics are silly because they believe that Christ
is present in the Eucharist ... that's fine. To say there is nothing
scriptural about it ... that's wrong. It's INTERPRETATION.

This thread is an example of why I abhor the BTS religion forum.
I suppose it has a good reason for being ... it keeps the anti-if-
you-don't-worship-like-me-you-are-stupid people away from the
rest of us. But man .... it's a cesspool of ignorance and hate.
And much like cesspools IRL, it breeds disease. The disease is
more hate. Hate of those who hate. Amazing. This thread is
doing the same. It belongs in the lower regions of BTS Religion
Forum - hidden away from the general public so they won't see
the worst ATS has to offer.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
...It belongs in the lower regions of BTS Religion
Forum - hidden away from the general public so they won't see
the worst ATS has to offer...

I am right w/you on this

Originally posted by FlyersFan
...It belongs in the lower regions of BTS Religion
Forum - hidden away from the general public so they won't see
the worst ATS has to offer...

I thought we were supposed to deny ignorance here, not sweep it under the rug.

``

i've understood believers to accept they all have their own 'crosses' to bear.
in this girls lifetime, i guess this her 'cross' is denial of proper communion

i really don't think the tradition and ?estachology? of wheat
as the only proper grain can be changed.
In both the real world and in the spiritual realm
isn't the separating the wheat from the chaff, also a foundation for the special status of the wheat grain??
wasn't it also a threashing floor, which was purchased for the site of (Solomons') Temple? ie ground that was holy enough for Temple use.


bottom line, the girl will need to call on her faith-> for direction & strength.