End manned spaceflight now

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
Sorry, but manned spaceflights are the future

Absolutely wrong. Current space flight is the most inefficient way to reach the cosmos, gobbles up an enormous amount of resources and even after nearly a half a century, is way too risky for any human being. Whatever we are gaining (science wise) is minimal to what we could gather if we develop a more sensible way of getting in and travelling within space.

We can't get anywhere with light years.

Simulacra, Read my reply and the link I provided... If it wasn't for manned exploration we wouldn't have something as prosaic and dull as smoke detectors...

www.thespaceplace.com...

AIR QUALITY MONITOR - Utilizing a NASA-developed, advanced analytical technique software package, an air quality monitor system was created, capable of separating the various gases in bulk smokestack exhaust streams and determining the amount of individual gases present within the stream for compliance with smokestack emission standards.
...
ENRICHED BABY FOOD - A microalgae-based, vegetable-like oil called Formulaid developed from NASA-sponsored research on long duration space travel, contains two essential fatty acids found in human milk but not in most baby formulas, believed to be important for infants' mental and visual development.
...
WATER PURIFICATION SYSTEM - NASA-developed municipal-size water treatment system for developing nations, called the Regenerable Biocide Delivery Unit, uses iodine rather than chlorine to kill bacteria.
...
PORTABLE COOLERS/WARMERS - Based on a NASA-inspired space cooling system employing thermoelectric technology, the portable cooler/warmer plugs into the cigarette lighters of autos, recreational vehicles, boats, or motel outlets. Utilizes one or two miniaturized modules delivering the cooling power of a 10-pound block of ice and the heating power of up to 125 degrees Fahrenheit.
...
SOLAR ENERGY - NASA-pioneered photovoltaic power system for spacecraft applications was applied to programs to expand terrestrial applications as a viable alternative energy source in areas where no conventional power source exists.
...
WEATHER FORECASTING AID - Space Shuttle environmental control technology led to the development of the Barorator which continuously measures the atmospheric pressure and calculates the instantaneous rate of change.
DIGITAL IMAGING BREAST BIOPSY SYSTEM - The LORAD Stereo Guide Breast Biopsy system incorporates advanced Charge Coupled Devices (CCDs) as part of a digital camera system. The resulting device images breast tissue more clearly and efficiently. Known as stereotactic large-core needle biopsy, this nonsurgical system developed with Space Telescope Technology is less traumatic and greatly reduces the pain, scarring, radiation exposure, time, and money associated with surgical biopsies.
...
LASER ANGIOPLASTY - Laser angioplasty with a "cool" type of laser, caller an excimer laser, does not damage blood vessel walls and offers precise non-surgical cleanings of clogged arteries with extraordinary precision and fewer complications than in balloon angioplasty.
...
PROGRAMMABLE PACEMAKER - Incorporating multiple NASA technologies, the system consists of the implant and a physician's computer console containing the programming and a data printer. Communicates through wireless telemetry signals.
...
OCULAR SCREENING - NASA image processing techniques are used to detect eye problems in very young children. An electronic flash from a 35-millimeter camera sends light into the child's eyes, and a photorefractor analyzes the retinal reflexes, producing an image of each eye.
...
MEDICAL GAS ANALYZER - Astronaut-monitoring technology used to develop system to monitor operating rooms for analysis of anesthetic gasses and measurement of oxygen, carbon dioxide, and nitrogen concentrations to assure proper breathing environment for surgery patients.

There is much more in the article I posted...

www.sti.nasa.gov...

www.sti.nasa.gov...

[edit on 22-5-2005 by sardion2000]

Don't forget "Tang" and the amazing "Tempurpedic" mattress.

I'm not ignoring anybody's point, but as I wrote before, these wonderful inventions were not discovered by people in a tin can in orbit.

As regards the O2 generator, well, you would not need one if there were not humans on board. Fixing things in space by sending humans to fix them does not and will not make any economic sense until and unless launch costs come down dramatically.

The Hubble is a good example. For the cost of a repair mission using the shuttle, we could build and launch several "Webb" class space telescopes.

Or would it make more sense to have humans up there looking through the lens themselves so they can feel and experience the view first-hand?

As regards the O2 generator, well, you would not need one if there were not humans on board. Fixing things in space by sending humans to fix them does not and will not make any economic sense until and unless launch costs come down dramatically.

Uh you're also forgetting that any and all innovation in Space Habitation technology has a purpose, that purpose is to make it as self-sustainable as possible and any work done in this field WILL have an impact on earth we need better waste remediation methods that the ISS has we are currently wasting water like it's unlimited which it's not. The goal is Colonization and if we stop then America is obvously not serous about Colonization then...

Or would it make more sense to have humans up there looking through the lens themselves so they can feel and experience the view first-hand?

Nice Straw man Realist And one I feel no need to respond too.(unless you respond to other points I made(especially the one about Smoke Detectors which have save countless lives here on earth, 1000s of lives saved versus 17 deaths in the entire history of the American space program seems like a good tradeoff))

You do seem to be ignoring some points or at the very least dismissing them without doing any research. FYI That MAG shield HAS been tested in a Vacuum chamber and had been proven effective. We could keep going round and round again but you obvously are dead set on getting the gov't out of human exploration so I see no point in continuing further.

[edit on 22-5-2005 by sardion2000]

If we send a robot up to fix Hubble, fine. But life isn't that easy, # happens. A robot can't respond when things are too far apart, or when a bolt goes missing. A human can, and does.

Well, let's see...

"Uhh that's my point. We need Humans up there to test all the new technologies and techniques that are literally right around the corner before we even think of going to Mars."

We are already sending vehicles to Mars. They are sending back pictures every day. For much less money than a manned mission we could build much more capable robots

"You should read up on Nanotech some time, you'll realize that alot of the obstacles we face today are surpassable in the short term."

I'm sooo ignorant of technology that I shouldn't be posting. Got it. Tell me now about the bright future we were promised by the introduction of the shuttle by NASA 25 years ago. Or how fusion power will be lighting our cities in 5 years. I've heard this song before.

"quote:
But then there's loss of calcium and bone density in space to contend with during prolonged wieghtlessness as well,
Uhh since when was that a fatal problem? It's a problem to be sure but I highly doubt we'd need a rotating spacecraft in order to promote calcium growth. Meds may help with that as well as internal centrifuges."

MAY Help. My confidence is restored! Fact is, astronauts have never spent a week outside the Van Allen belt, and no realistic plan for interplanetary exploration (yes, I've read MARSDIRECT) could be undertaken without testing anti-radiation in the environment it would actually be in. To do so would violate the "man-rated" regs NASA b-crats so love.

"I guess we should just give up and Let the Chinese, Indians, Brazillians, Isreali and Japanese take over from now on. Let them have the benefits while we play with over-hyped robotic mission, but WAIT those countries I listed want to do BOTH! Remember NASA and the Russians are not the only outfits capable of lofting a man into space."

As I was saying about nationalist pride... Let them spend thier money!

"Also one other point you seemed to have missed(or ignored)
"Every dollar we spend on NASA equates to 7 dollars returned to the economy.
Remember the first American Space Station developed smoke detectors which are used in everywhere nowadays. It would be really hard to imagine what life would be like if we just stuck to robotic missions, we wouldn't be as far as we are now. "

The spinoff P.R. NASA has been pushing since the early 60's to elevate public support for the program ignores the possibility of even better advances had the money been spent in other projects by other agencies. Are you actually trying to say that workable smoke detectors would not have been developed without Skylab?
I notice you even slipped "Manned" into the mix of the projects NASA brags about that have nothing to do with that portion of the program.


The "Straw Man" argument here is the one that presents progress as inexplicably tied to man-in-the-can exploration.

Hasn't been, isn't, won't be.

think star wars 3:

"flying is for droids"...

Well.. having observed that unmanned spaceflight has numerous advantaegs over manned spaceflight( esp after virtual suits are introduced).. one must remember that sooner or later space will be colonised because mother earth just aint big enough for us all.. manned spaceflight in that aspect is DEFINITELY here to stay..

as several people at nasa say and other scientist rovers and robotics can do a lot bt they still be tools used by us humans we stil can have to go because we look around we can spot things with our eyes which you can't with a cam and we can stop go there and if it is nothing go further but if there is something we will use a rover/ robotics for tools to indentify and test the speciment so we humans have to go its our destiny..
its our past, present and future.. space!