I thought the Masons were a secret society...
People want to know what goes on...
Perhaps drawing their own conclusions from
information they have collected forces The
Masons to come out of the wood work and
defend it.

In other words, baiting them to come out
and discuss and possibly they will divulge
some information that can be skewed by
the next investigator.

Originally posted by JoshNorton
I'm not sure, to be honest. I haven't joined the York Rite yet, though I've considered it.

Many thanks for the response, seems no one else is able to confirm it one way or another either. It'd be quite handy to know.

Originally posted by JoshNorton
I wouldn't progress all the way through the York bodies anyway, as the top 2 or 3 of their degrees require you to swear that you'll defend the Christian faith above all others.

And, I am assuming such an oath doesn't appear in the Scottish Rite?


@ Cluckerspud...singularly impressive avatar you have there...

[edit on 11-12-2008 by KilgoreTrout]

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout


And, I am assuming such an oath doesn't appear in the Scottish Rite?

In the Commandery of Knights Templar, found in the York Rite, the Novitiate is required to an assume an obligation to "defend the Christian Religion", as the Knights Templar have always been an Order of Christian Knighthood.

However, there are no such obligations elsewhere in the York Rite, or the Scottish Rite.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
In the Commandery of Knights Templar, found in the York Rite, the Novitiate is required to an assume an obligation to "defend the Christian Religion", as the Knights Templar have always been an Order of Christian Knighthood.

However, there are no such obligations elsewhere in the York Rite, or the Scottish Rite.

Thank you Masonic Light.

How about the other oath that JoshNorton mentioned...seperation of church and state...do you kow whether that appears in the York Rite as well as the Scottish?

Originally posted by cluckerspud
I thought the Masons were a secret society...
People want to know what goes on...
Perhaps drawing their own conclusions from
information they have collected forces The
Masons to come out of the wood work and
defend it.

In other words, baiting them to come out
and discuss and possibly they will divulge
some information that can be skewed by
the next investigator.

Actually, there is more of the reason that the masons who are in lodge are tech savvy and are able to use the internetz now days. There are a lot more younger masons now in lodge and they are apart of the computer age and know whats going on, hence why i joined ATS and decide to talk about masonry. I'm not saying we are not defending masonry, I'm just saying that there are more masons who are on the internet now days as compared to 10 years ago.

well there are those masons who just don't know what is going on, they just think they joined some cool club thingy. The others are part of the NWO.

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
How about the other oath that JoshNorton mentioned...seperation of church and state...do you know whether that appears in the York Rite as well as the Scottish?

I'm still looking for an answer to this question if anyone has one....????

Also, if Trinity Man is about, does an oath in any shape or form similar to this appear in any of the rites 'auhorised' by UGLE?

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
How about the other oath that JoshNorton mentioned...seperation of church and state...do you know whether that appears in the York Rite as well as the Scottish?

I'm still looking for an answer to this question if anyone has one....????

Also, if Trinity Man is about, does an oath in any shape or form similar to this appear in any of the rites 'auhorised' by UGLE?

I believe the Scottish Rite is unique in that it SPECIFICALLY requires an oath to defend the separation of church in state. I'd say a main theme of many of the Scottish Rite degrees is to defend against religious tyranny.

Originally posted by LowLevelMason
I believe the Scottish Rite is unique in that it SPECIFICALLY requires an oath to defend the separation of church in state. I'd say a main theme of many of the Scottish Rite degrees is to defend against religious tyranny.

That is most helpful, thank you. Interesting too. This may be a naive question on my part, but does the Scottish Rite have any particular denominational leanings?

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout


That is most helpful, thank you. Interesting too. This may be a naive question on my part, but does the Scottish Rite have any particular denominational leanings?

No, the Scottish Rite is completely non-sectarian. Different religious ideas throughout history are presented throughout the degrees, from Zoroastrianism and Christianity through Sufism, Judaism, and Hermeticism. The Rite does not present these teachings as something for Masons to adopt as their personal beliefs, but rather as educational efforts to follow man's journey toward spiritual truth, and the evolution of religious thought.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
No, the Scottish Rite is completely non-sectarian. Different religious ideas throughout history are presented throughout the degrees, from Zoroastrianism and Christianity through Sufism, Judaism, and Hermeticism. The Rite does not present these teachings as something for Masons to adopt as their personal beliefs, but rather as educational efforts to follow man's journey toward spiritual truth, and the evolution of religious thought.

Also very helpful, thank you. So, where does the Scottish Rite fall in the 'evolution' of Freemasonry? Does it pre- or post-date the York Rite, for example? When, where and by whom, was it founded/incorporated? That sort of thing, roughly...or any history links would be very much appreciated.

Originally posted by LowLevelMason
Hope that is semi-helpful.

Fully helpful, thank you, no semi about it.

Ditto, to JoshNorton, thanks for answering my questions.

Now to digest...

The truth will set you free

Originally posted by The Axeman
Being a member of this forum for almost a year now, I have seen many people come and go. I have seen all manner of credible information passed along, and I have also seen despicable and deliberate lies and falsehoods posted regarding the Masonic Fraternity.

My question is why?

Why do people, without a real clue as to what Masonry is about, post and promulgate such lies and falsehoods about these men?

Why is it that good honest men are called liars because one or two people suggest (without good reason) that they are, by way of posting false "oaths" and other such nonsense that is easily shown to be false? When the Masons challenge these lies and try to put forth the truth, they are labeled liars, and "because they are Masons, must be lying" about their fraternity.

WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY?!?!

Why are people who say "Masons are bad" put up on some kind of pedestal, while real, good, honest Masons who speak from years and years of collective experience are belittled and made out to be false and dishonest, when their true intentions are to make the good deeds and positive aims of their fraternity and themselves known to the general public? So many times I have seen people come onto this board and ask a question of the Masons here, to have it answered politely and accurately. Then, once the question is answered, someone will post something to the effect of "Oh, they are sworn to lie" and all of a sudden the detractor is the be-all-end-all of truth, while the Mason who is trying to give an honest answer is labeled a liar and a fraud. Those that are enemies of Freemasonry (by their own choice and for their own reasons) will proceed to say "Oh, well you are a Mason, how can we trust what you say?" Truth is an integral part of Masonry. They are taught to ALWAYS put forth the truth.

My question to you then, members of this forum, is this: Why are those who would detract from, or otherwise slander Masons given the benifit of the doubt, while Masons who speak from experience in the hopes of helping someone to understand are fed to the wolves and labeled liars?

Is it more likely that those who make outlandish claims against the Freemasons are correct, or that the Masons who are stuck woth defending a fraternity that means so much to them are telling the truth in the hopes that more people will understand what it is that Masons do and why it is so important to them?

It saddens me very much to see those who make claims with no way to back them up rallied around in the face of members of a fraternity that can provide good information, documentation, and reliable resources to back up what they say.

In short, those who are against Freemasonry rely on very inconsistent and unverifiable claims, while the Freemasons have many, many resources and hundreds of years of collective experience to draw upon to make posts and answer questions.

Why do people insist on taking the word of those who can't back up what they say over people who can? It mystifies me...

Anyone???

Because of one main thing, fear.

People fear what they do not know and in trying to solve things they begin to look for patterns.

Most people see for example, politican who is a mason and scream corruption.

Little do they know how much that mason will have contributed to society.

I do not know why it bothers masons so much come to think of it.

Id have a chuckle about it as I am sure many others do.

Logic goes straight out the window in times like this when people are desperate which is making it worse.

Originally posted by The Axeman

The Masons have a saying: 2B1 Ask1. Perhaps the guy in Starbucks saw the Mason's ring and asked about it? They are permitted to talk about Freemasonry, people, that fact should be obvious from the posts on this very site and elsewhere. The fact of the matter is, they don't "recruit" in that they don't solicit people for membership as the above poster suggests. Actually that whole post smells fishy to me (not you, blanketgirl), but whatever. It just goes along with the title of this thread. Why post something like that? Anyways, it would not be unheard of or even uncommon for a Freemason to invite someone who had expressed an interest to come down to the lodge and visit, look around, and get any questions they may have answered.

A man has to come to Freemasonry by his own will and accord. In most jusrisdictions around the world, recruiting is expressly forbidden.

[edit on 5/24/05 by The Axeman]

Mmm strange, i was thinking most masonic lodges are "invitation only", so it seems they can only be filled by inviting (recruiting) new members.
Maybe my english is not good enough so i understand it wrong.

Some conflicting information here.

Originally posted by jaamaan


Mmm strange, i was thinking most masonic lodges are "invitation only", so it seems they can only be filled by inviting (recruiting) new members.

No, in most of the US, it is against the rules to invite someone. A person who wants to become a Mason must request it, he cannot be invited.