Originally posted by ThehorrorofAtlantis
One might ask why the Masons seem to have such a need for secrecy and ritual in what they do. I mean from what I gather i is essentially a mens club. If you make something mysterious then people are bound to jump to all kinds of erroneous conclusions.

So can I turn this question around and ask why the Masons are so secretive and select?

because masonry teaches moral lessons through allegory and symbolism, that help good men become better men (not bad men good) having been a part of the masonic family for 8 1/2 years has not only strengthend my ability to be a better son and brother but also strengthend my bond with God and my church, for the masonic youth i am a member of (DeMolay) encourages that God comes first then to ones family and country.
just as the boy scouts have the order of the arrow for members who have shown outstanding service to boy scouts of america, my father uncle and dgrandfather all being members (but not myself because i chose DeMolay of scouting earlt on) i know there are some times when my dad and some old scouting buddies start talking about the OA (order of the arrow) i walk away. but when me and my dad start talking about DeMolay my sisters walk away for one is a rainbow girl and we respect our orders privacy

Honestly I think there is many different types of masonry.
My uncle for example long time member of the FREE masons, he couldnt give a hoot for any of this junk people go on about regarding the masons.
He couldnt care about symbols and all that rubbish he just likes to play golf drink whiskey and make money from his business's.
He really only joined it as a social networking business networking kind of outlet which of course since he did, his business's are much more successful.
More than likely just from him making many friends and they all help each other out.
And then there would be other kinds of masons who go on about all this other traditional world domination kind of junk.
And even some masonic orders who have been reported to have been infiltrated by satanists who have moved to higher levels in it.
But I don't think the general history about free masons is to do with satanism.
Perhaps the Christians see it this way due to much pagan tradition included in it.
I guess its fair to say all individual masonic orders and lodges can be different and what positives or negatives comes from them can be a result of who is involved in them.
Once again a people problem, not what they belong to.

in answer to the OP's original question(3 years and 43 pages ago), look at what's happened since 2001, especially in american society; black is white, up is down, liars are truth-tellers, truth-tellers are the liars. orwellian to the extreme. We've seen this dynamic play out from the biggest govt. lies to the smallest social interactions; People have been taught that there are bogeymen, and those bogeymen are the cause of their ills. The attack on masons is but a symptom of that disease. The real evil is right out in the open, right in our face, but it's easier to believe that masons are hexing everyone with nutty ceremonies than it is to look at the heart of neocon/globalist evil that's clearly on display...why? because if they faced the true evil, they just might have to do something about it. Joe six-pack no longer has the balls to stand up, but they can come on the internets and spew bull#, and think they're striking a blow.

Pathetic.

This subject is the one I love to read the most on this whole board ..at least in my opinion ...I love watching the Masons get all mad and upset and start screaming foul (They sure get excited which tells me that they know deep down even that there is more to it than they are aware of ..but typical men they hate to look like a fool so they just get mad instead) ...when there is so much truth to what goes on at those meetings and what they mean (Their symbolisms and rituals ) ....which have been around for a long time ....................Many people have been there done it and left it and exposed it and why would they lie about their own personal experiences >>? They wouldnt at least I dont know what reason they would have to anyway...

There is also plenty of sources in books and such to convince me that even if there is some BS in it ..there is enough truths to raise red flags for me ..

I have dug plenty into this ...and anything I could bring up ...has already been said and shown before on here many a time ..Course you Masons always just changed the subject by redirecting them to your anger and your resentment and they just gave up posting ...because no one gets anywhere in a discussion once people start getting all mad .............

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Course you Masons always just changed the subject by redirecting them to your anger and your resentment and they just gave up posting ...because no one gets anywhere in a discussion once people start getting all mad .............

Yeah... that's how it happens alright.

"redirecting them to your anger and your resentment" must mean something akin to "asking for sources or to explain people's reasoning" where you come from.

You people never cease to amuse me.

Originally posted by Trinityman

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
My main reasons for suspicon were the number of Masons I knew of in high positions...

This is encouraging, as it shows that high moral standards are respected by and reflected in our wider society. There are many places in the world where freemasons are discriminated against - at least some people can see through the stuff and nonsense.

"High moral standards" are not the argument. It's that the Masons are a secret (closed) organization with hidden agendas. They DON'T promote liberty. They promote manipulation (throughout their ranks, too). If they were not in league with the Illuminati and World Banks, then there would be no issue with them. But, they are used as Satan's bodyguards, and that's the beef.

Originally posted by dnbaudio
"High moral standards" are not the argument. It's that the Masons are a secret (closed) organization with hidden agendas. They DON'T promote liberty. They promote manipulation (throughout their ranks, too). If they were not in league with the Illuminati and World Banks, then there would be no issue with them. But, they are used as Satan's bodyguards, and that's the beef.

Is it Irony, then, that you quote Samuel Adams in your signature? While not a Mason himself, he certainly fraternized with enough of them...

Originally posted by Simplynoone
This subject is the one I love to read the most on this whole board ..at least in my opinion ...I love watching the Masons get all mad and upset and start screaming foul (They sure get excited which tells me that they know deep down even that there is more to it than they are aware of ..but typical men they hate to look like a fool so they just get mad instead) ...when there is so much truth to what goes on at those meetings and what they mean (Their symbolisms and rituals ) ....which have been around for a long time ....................Many people have been there done it and left it and exposed it and why would they lie about their own personal experiences >>? They wouldnt at least I dont know what reason they would have to anyway...

There is also plenty of sources in books and such to convince me that even if there is some BS in it ..there is enough truths to raise red flags for me ..

I have dug plenty into this ...and anything I could bring up ...has already been said and shown before on here many a time ..Course you Masons always just changed the subject by redirecting them to your anger and your resentment and they just gave up posting ...because no one gets anywhere in a discussion once people start getting all mad .............

OK so let me get this straight - People who leave masonry because they don't like are telling the truth about their experiences, but masons who do like it and stay are lying?

And since you have read all the books and talked to all the 'insiders' who have exposed masonry, what is the 'secret'?

I sure would like to know. These twice-monthly business meetings and pancake dinners are really starting to wear me out.

Quote {OK so let me get this straight - People who leave masonry because they don't like are telling the truth about their experiences, but masons who do like it and stay are lying?

And since you have read all the books and talked to all the 'insiders' who have exposed masonry, what is the 'secret'?

I sure would like to know. These twice-monthly business meetings and pancake dinners are really starting to wear me out. }



No I dont believe thats what I said ......and its not what I meant ..
Here is the simple version easily understood ..

I will say MOST ...Masons get mad (Not all do) ...get enraged at even the slightest bit of negative info about their little boy club (not even considering that there may in fact be truth in them ) they do not even try and take a attitude of ok I will check that out and see if it could be true or not .....the very fact that they get so mad and cant even contribute to prove or investigate it .... that in itself shows what is truly within them and also speaks volumes of the supposed morals and values you claim they teach with their symbols etc ...........

As far as those who got out and tell their stories ..I asked why would they lie about something like that and if it were all good that goes on there why would they even leave in the first place ?





PS ..I do have alot of respect for a few Masons on here that I have read here who keep their cool at all times ..and come right out and tell what they know ...and do at least admit ..ok so there may be a few bad apples here and yes some things are kinda strange etc etc ...they at least always keep their cool and do not get enraged and start fights over it .............

[edit on 25-8-2008 by Simplynoone]

[edit on 25-8-2008 by Simplynoone]

LOL Emsed ....about the Checks and the Illuminatie calls lol ...


I would really really seriously dig deep on both sides of the arguments (and do your own research ) Find out what everything means ..where they came up with (whether from black magic or ancient babylonian rituals or whatever) ...what every vow is for etc etc ..before getting in deep ......................

Taking a vow ....you may well know is pretty much giving obedience to something or someone ...(its sacred and everyone needs to be good at their word if they promise something they better be ready to fulfill it or dont vow at all ) ..I know that If I say I will do something ..I do my best to do it ...no matter what ........
Are you willing to give obedience to things or peoples or whatever that you really do not know enough about yet ?

What if the antimasons were right and the devil then requires your life since you vowed a vow to him ?That would be pretty doggone serious wouldnt it >?What if you cant get out of that vow after that then ?

Dont get mad MAsons ...I am not saying all that just to upset you ..
I am just trying to get him to really consider what he is doing before just jumping into something he is no idea about ....surely you cant fault me for that ..you would not join a church (or shoudnt) unless you did a little digging into what they teach ,preach and stand for would you >>? neither should join a club until you are well aware as much as possible for what they stand for ..
Am I right on that at least >?




[edit on 25-8-2008 by Simplynoone]

[edit on 25-8-2008 by Simplynoone]

Originally posted by Simplynoone
What if the antimasons were right and the devil then requires your life since you vowed a vow to him ?That would be pretty doggone serious wouldnt it >?What if you cant get out of that vow after that then ?

But let's be honest here... what vow can a person not get out of? The impetus to keep a vow is solely on the person who makes it, and, as such, the validity and strength of that vow is only as good as the conscious and continuously self-reminded intent to keep it. I could vow to take out the garbage every Thursday night, but I still have to remember to do it and take decisive action to follow through with that vow week after week. It's no different for Masonic vows. We're all human. We can swear on the bible that we'll be good men, but ultimately we still have to make a conscious effort to uphold that vow. And chances are good that we'll all slip at least once somewhere along the way.

Our oaths are on the Bible, and made to God. If we screw up, it's between Him and us. At the end of the day, the most any of us can hope for is having made a net positive impact on the world around us.

Originally posted by dnbaudio
"High moral standards" are not the argument. It's that the Masons are a secret (closed) organization with hidden agendas. They DON'T promote liberty. They promote manipulation (throughout their ranks, too). If they were not in league with the Illuminati and World Banks, then there would be no issue with them. But, they are used as Satan's bodyguards, and that's the beef.

Actually, you are quite wrong in all your points.

The freemasons are neither secret nor closed. Locations of meeting places are well known and easily found. What freemasons get up to in their meeting is also well documented. Membership is open and the criteria for membership is widely published. It's quite the opposite of secret and/or closed.

Whilst freemasonry doesn't specifically promote liberty, it encourages it through its principles and tenets. Freemasonry has no manipulative element, the goals of the organization are explained in detail to new members, but each member is free to ignore any or all of its teachings.

In addition, there is no more link between freemasonry and Satan than there is between it and the Tooth Fairy or the Grinch. None of these have any role within freemasonry, indeed quite the reverse as is evidenced by the notable biblical content and Christian morality within the ritual.

Where do you get this stuff from? Not personal experience or any actual first hand knowledge of freemasonry, that's for sure.

Quote {It's no different for Masonic vows. We're all human. We can swear on the bible that we'll be good men, but ultimately we still have to make a conscious effort to uphold that vow. And chances are good that we'll all slip at least once somewhere along the way.

Our oaths are on the Bible, and made to God. If we screw up, it's between Him and us. At the end of the day, the most any of us can hope for is having made a net positive impact on the world around us.}


It certainly would be different for the Masons if it were indeed true that they were taking a vow to an ungodly demonic goat devil now wouldnt it ?If it made a difference on whether your choosing heaven or hell then it certainly would matter alot ..at least to me ..
PS >>>dont think that the devil would take it lightly that you didnt do your vow to him ..he will come and require it of you and I dont think that will be a good thing ..do you ?

And as far as the bible ..that is why the Lord said ..let your answer be yay or nay ...do not swear by anything ..neither make promises you cannot keep ..
It is better that you make no promises at all than to make them and then you cannot keep them ..(it says alot on whether your good at your word or not and the bible says this about that
Pro 22:1 A [good] name [is] rather to be chosen than great riches, [and] loving favour rather than silver and gold.



Ok sorry ..I wont turn this into a bible study ..thats all the scriptures I will use now .....sorry ..please dont flame me now you flamers ...lol ....

[edit on 25-8-2008 by Simplynoone]

Originally posted by Simplynoone
It certainly would be different for the Masons if it were indeed true that they were taking a vow to an ungodly demonic goat devil now wouldnt it ?

Can you explain to me how it would be possible to make a vow to God in your heart and have it actually be a vow to the devil? The faction of anti-Masons that come from a strictly religious argument often go off about worshiping false gods or making vows to the devil. If God is in your mind and heart when you do such worship or take such oaths, how could they be to anything BUT God?

Because the bible says you cannot serve two masters ...God and Mammon
And the word says pretty clearly you do not worship idols ..neither do you go through idols to worship him.neither should you sit at meat with those who do serve idols and even tell you hey this is to the god ishtar or the great goat mendez or whoever .............................
In fact most the bible is about idol worship that upset God so much ...
And you are to avoid any appearance of evil (the goat head and the wise owl stuff and even the Horus who was an idol diety of the ancient times like Baal ) and the meanings behind them ...............
Maybe you havent read enough of the word to know this stuff ..but I have and it is about the clearest easiest to understand parts of the bible ..at least to me .........


and before anyone gets started on me now .... ....I do not believe a Christian should put up statues of saints and pray to them either (this is idol worship ) so is bowing to the POpe etc ) ..same goes for praying the rosary or holding a cross because it makes you feel safe or whatever ...even a Church can be considered an Idol to some who worship just because it sits there and is something they can see ........that was the reason why the Israelites built that stupid cow idol ..they wanted something they could see to worship ...