Why do some people feel the need to post outright lies about Masons and Masonry?

Originally posted by mikedw
I do plan on joining the Scottish Rite and when I do, I'm going to read it, I personally love reading old books, the language and grammar makes them very challenging and you learn a lot.

Actually, Pike isn't as difficult as many make him out to be. If you've ever read Kant, Hegel, or Kierkegaard, you'll have no problem with Pike. It's just that many Masons do not (unfortunately) have a background in philosophy and philosophical writing.

As a 32nd in the Northern Jurisdiction I see Pike's book as a personal diatribe of what he thought the degrees represent (as I've only done a quick glance through some of it that's all I got).

As the NJ has a tendancy to change, update, and otherwise edit the degrees; I don't think I'm going to get to see much of what Pike describes as ritual.

And if he's anything like Wilmhurst, he'll make a few good points and then dive straight into the deep end of the pool.

I don't know why all people say that Masons are bad but look!

My account on another forum has been deleted after I posted this message:

"All-seeing eye nowadays is not a symbol of God (Jesus or whatever) and all internet and youtube especially is getting more and more information and videos about all-seeing eye symbol.
Here is an example:
www.youtube.com... - Rockefeller bancker is in this vid and he is a well known mason.
Another couple:
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
And by the way why the hell they would put All-seeing eye symbol on a $ bank note if it was a symbol of God? Christianity has never considered money and wealth as good and right things."




and now this message shows that it was posted by anonymous user. All my other messaged were deleted too.
So what is going on?

reply to post by Mikee


It is unclear to me what the connection is. The all seeing eye is part of the symbolism of masonry, but it is also part of the symbols for other groups. Many of these videos have nothing to do with masonry...

The videos you link to all use the same type of methodology, simply "declaring" that..well..just about everything is a NWO design to control you. While I have no doubt such declarations work to instill fear in people, they have no proof for any of their assertions. I am no fan of the patriot act, but I also do not believe it is part of a NWO cabal to "own" me - and there is no evidence that it is. None of these videos produce proof or evidence for their claims, I could just as easily make up a video with eerie music that proclaimed "Everything the US government does is for your FREEDOM and you should LOVE IT" - same logic, different message.

[edit on 10-1-2008 by LightinDarkness]

www.youtube.com...

[Mod Edit - yeahright]

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Posting video links - ALL MEMBERS PLEASE READ
* Link
* Description
* Review/Opinion


[edit on 2/1/2008 by yeahright]

It is unclear to me what the connection is. The all seeing eye is part of the symbolism of masonry, but it is also part of the symbols for other groups.

What other groups, can you provide a list with names as long as you are sustaining such arguments.

Many of these videos have nothing to do with masonry...

Well that is just your opinion.

Originally posted by pepsi78

It is unclear to me what the connection is. The all seeing eye is part of the symbolism of masonry, but it is also part of the symbols for other groups.

What other groups, can you provide a list with names as long as you are sustaining such arguments.

The Independent Order of Odd Fellows (I.O.O.F.)

The Knights of Pythias (K.P.)

The Knights of the Golden Eagle (K.G.E.)

Several of the Christian Rosicrucian groups

Several College Fraternities/Sororities

None of the above being Masonic groups.

Also the ancient Egyptians, but I guess there aren't any of them around any more.

As for the Masonic use of the eye, my favorite rendering of it is the Masonic "slipper" emblem with the eye. Yes, an eye on a shoe. I have to admit...that's pretty weird.



Edit: to correct quotes

[edit on 12-2-2008 by senrak]

Hi. I'm a mason.

Most of my day, is spent stacking brick upon brick. It's like adult legos.

The only meetings we hold, are to get yelled at by the boss, or to drink beer at the end of the day.

Why is everyone so lazy they can't type "free mason"?

I feel discriminated

Originally posted by fbipeeperjr
Hi. I'm a mason.
Most of my day, is spent stacking brick upon brick. It's like adult legos.
The only meetings we hold, are to get yelled at by the boss, or to drink beer at the end of the day.
Why is everyone so lazy they can't type "free mason"?
I feel discriminated

Hi fbipeeperjr,

So, you're in the "operative" field? Awesome.

As far as Free Mason vs. Mason, either is proper. Most Grand Lodges are officially called "Ancient Free & Accepted Masons" or "Free & Accepted Masons" (there are other variants)

So as a "speculative" member of the Craft, it's perfectly proper for me to refer to myself as a Freemason, a Free-Mason, a Free Mason or simply a Mason.

. . . and although I loved Legos as a child and I once owned a construction company, I've never once laid a brick. Never could figure out how you guys kept 'em so straight!

Last two posts:

Thanks for reminding us of...


The truth about masonry

I think that people hate the Masons for the same reasons they hated Jews a few hundred years ago, there independent and different nature. We as humans want to know what is going on, especially with people who live with us and who can affect us. If people start being secretive on a grand scale, like those Masons have with their meetings, then people will get suspicious.

Note:I do NOT hate the Masons.....I might even join them in the future!


how old do you have to be?.........

Originally posted by hayatli7
Note:I do NOT hate the Masons.....I might even join them in the future!

how old do you have to be?.........

Depends on what jurisdiction you are in.

It used to be 21, but now in most U.S. states it's 18, some 19 some still 21.

Here's a link to a page that will answer the question for your location
(provided you're in the U.S. of course)

bessel.org...

Originally posted by hayatli7
I think that people hate the Masons for the same reasons they hated Jews a few hundred years ago, there independent and different nature. We as humans want to know what is going on, especially with people who live with us and who can affect us. If people start being secretive on a grand scale, like those Masons have with their meetings, then people will get suspicious.

What people don't know, they fear. It's a throwback to our cavedweller days. Unknown=dangerous. The reality is that if more people let themselve pursue the tenets of Masonry (whether under its banners or not) the World would be a better place for it. We've devolved into a selfish society in general and 'what's-in-it-for-me' has become the watchword. If the mantra of 'pay it forward' were to become more of the modus operandi, we'd realise a greater general satisfaction from life.

I tried to read this whole thread so that I could make a thoroughly informed response, relevant to the whole conversation. Unfortunately, after 11 pages of anti masons refusing to do just that, I decided not to waste my time reading another 30+ pages of more of that nonsense.

Fundamental facts about Freemasonry to consider before forming an arguement:

- There is no "level" higher than the 3rd degree. Lodges are governed by their local Grand Lodge, which is seperate from all other Grand lodges all over the world. They do not work together for global domination or anything else for that matter. Officers in a Grand Lodge are democraticly elected and only serve a temporary term. With the higher ranks on a constant rotation like this, it is impossible to have secrets confined only to the "upper levels". You're not in the "upper levels" for long, and sooner or later almost every mason gets a crack at it.

- No one particular God is worshipped in a masonic Lodge. The 8th degree of the York Rite and the 18th degree of the Scottish Rite actually require a Christian belief. If non Christians in the Scottish Rite can't make it past the 18th degree, and Christians aren't allowed past the 30th, who exactly does the 30th-33rd degrees? There are a suprisingly high number of 32nd degree masons all over the world.

- The only real masonic secrets are their modes of recognition (handshakes & passwords). Their teachings are of an initiatory nature, meaning you don't learn the next lesson until you have fully grasped your current one. This is just to make sure you are fully prepared for your next lesson so there is a better chance of it sinking in. The reason masons are discreet about their rituals is so they don't spoil it for those who may wish to go through them. It'd be like prematurely learning the final score to a football match you were planning to watch later.

- The reason for the secret modes of recognition used to be to avoid persecution from oppressive types (early vatican, nazis, dictators etc) but now is merely a sign of honour. Despite the fact that anyone can discover them on the internet, a mason swears never to be the direct source of that information - a promise for the sake of proving he can keep a promise.

In short, there is no capacity amongst freemasons to form an international conspiracy. They don't worship baphomet or the devil (or anyone for that matter- I challenge anyone to find proof of any organised group of devil worshippers). They possess no earth shattering secrets. They inspire good men to be better men via their 3 main degrees:

1st degree teaches the importance of charity and morality.
2nd degree teaches the importance of equality and improving ones intellect.
3rd degree teaches the importance of integrity and to contemplate our mortality.

When you dedicate yourself to being morally upright and helping out others as much as possible, others tend to want to help you. If you dedicate yourself to furthering your knowledge and striving for the best that you can in all your undertakings, with the help of those you have helped and inspired, success tends to follow. It neccessarily follows then that there a lot of Freemasons in high ranking important jobs throughout society: they have earned their position through integrity, hard work, and with the support of those they have supported.

Well put.

That's certainly MY understanding of my fraternity.

Originally posted by The Axeman
My question is why?

Friend, regardless of who one is, or where they come from, all people have the innate desire to fear.
People especially love to fear something that they do not know everything about or understand.
Some people love to wallow in ignorance, and it is their given right to do so.
However, it is when they allow that fear and ignorance to erect barriers between them and their fellow humans, that is where their greatest sin is.

I hope that this is the correct thread in which to post this request. I apologize if this detracts from the discussion

I live in central Florida and I'd like to become a Freemason in another month or so when I reach 21 (the required minimum age for joining the Masons in my state).

However, I also work for a production network that deals with revealing the unbiased truth about various groups that are considered 'fringe' by the outside world. My superior in the company has asked me to write a series of essays regarding the Freemasons. He's made it clear that it's just a suggested topic of writing, and their will be no reprisals if I decline to do it. I've also made it clear to him that joining the Masons is more important to me than doing this particular assignment, and he fully understands.

My concern is this - Normally if the local Masons refused to speak with us, that would be no issue, as we would just cancel the project. However, I don't want to jeopardize my chances of being admitted to the Freemasons for having attempted this project.

I know that a number of people on this forum are longtime Masons, who are more familiar with the specific prohibitions that Masons have. I just want to ask you, as the experts, what the chances are that I would put my chance of admission into jeopardy?

For reference, the topics I'm probably going to be asking questions on are:

1. What impact has the Freemasons had on your personal life? Why did you join the Freemasons?

2. What sorts of outreach or charitable programs do the Masons contribute to?

3. Is there anything else about the Masons that you'd like to share with the general public?

Actually, if any of you would like to give interviews, and you live in Florida, I would be happy to come to you. If you'd like, you would of course be given a copy of the final draft of the articles before publishing.

Thank you very much for your assistance, I deeply appreciate it.

Being a Mason is about honor, Brotherhood, and relielf. The reasons for the secrets is that no one that is dishonorable, can just walk in and say " Im a Mason" and be accepted. We would not want men who are of questionable character, and have tanted backgrounds, being a part of our Brotherhood. Any man can join who has a belief in a Surpreme Being, and has a clean background, and is of age.
The honor part comes from keeping the secrets. It is that honor that we owe to our brothers. This honor, like in many different organizations has been broken several times. Honor is a rare thing now days, but amoung us it is paramount.
If you reveal the secrets of Freemasonry, after joining, you will have broken that honor and trust forever.
However, there are questions that Mason do and can answer, just don`t ask about the secrets. Many of us refuse to answer any questions because of anti-masonic ridicule, and misunderstanding. Your questions that you have listed, can be answered by any Mason. But it is his chosing to do so. When and if you become a Mason you will understand.
Everone worries about a world with us Masons in it, they should worry about the world without Masons in it.

Originally posted by topsecretombomb
Thank you for your posts axeman, there are many who feel the same way as you do sadly. I mean, the government kills people just for the fun of it right? Even if youre flat out "crazy?" Oh I love the insanity.

When I get my copy back from a friend Ill be more than glad to get into the speciffics that the wonderful Cooper descibes.

As events unfold which reveal the level of corruption and falsehood in our time, propagated by our so-called leaders, its no surprise that we see the general mood shift and content of MOST forums heading into a stance which is of complete skepticism toward anything mainstream.

How is it then, that after many years, I return here to ATS only to find the complete opposite? I now witness the same 'old' posters but instead of them shifting toward healthy skepticism for our so-called leaders and mainstream media, they actually have gone backwards into supporting the very beast which ATS is supposed to stand in opposition to.

No human is that foolish to make this mistake unless they were already out fishing and not even wasting time here. Whether these posters refer to themselves as Masons, Jesuits, Christians, it makes little difference.

Unlike the majority of open-minded people, the posters here are an insult to the very venue of the forum. And for this nonsense to still be tolerated here, is nothing less the macrocosm of ATS and it's microcosm of the posters/shills. No admin would tolerate this.

(Admin tolerating free speech? Surely that must be a practical joke for anyone to assume the Admins here would allow free speech to usurp their CORE message? Is this not a fair assessment?)

I concluded long ago that this forum was not only compromised but is also an 'intelligence-gathering' site. Had I any doubt of this in the past it has now certainly been laid to rest.