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Why do some people feel the need to post outright lies about Masons and Masonry?

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posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 07:30 AM
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The Goat of Mendes or Baphomet
Copy of a letter sent to an inquirer asking for the origins of the Masonic ties to it.
Thank you very much for your letter. It was forwarded to me from Chick Publications since I helped them put together the tract, "The Curse of Baphomet" and am the author of MASONRY: BEYOND THE LIGHT . I am a former 32o Mason, and am now an evangelist and an associate of Ed Decker's the fellow you mentioned who wrote The Question of Freemasonry.

At the risk of sounding a bit venal, some of your questions are answered in a much more comprehensive way than I could possibly manage here in a letter in my book, mentioned above, which Chick sells. However, I will endeavor to help out as much as possible.

1)Masonic writer Manly P. Hall (33o)-just recently deceased (9/90) and eulogized and lionized at great length in the SCOTTISH RITE JOURNAL-stated that Baphomet was another name for the satanic "Goat of Mendez" whose picture is featured prominently in the tract. The Goat of Mendez is, of course, the god of the witches. (Mendez is another spelling of Mendes, a city of ancient Egypt where fertility worship-Ba'al worship-was practiced).

This god, also known as the Horned God, is evidently the oldest fertility god in human history. His representation is found on paintings from cavemen in Ariége, France. Nimrod, the founder of Baëal worship, is often represented wearing a horned headdress. The leader of the most powerful occult/Masonic organization in the world (the Ordo Templi Orientis-Order of Eastern Templars), Kenneth Grant, says that Baphomet actually means Bapho-Mitras-son of Mithras. Mithras was the bull-god (Bull = Ba'al?) worshipped in the Roman empire about the time of Christ. Again, the Horned God of witchcraft.

Thus, while Ba'al was not actually called "Baphomet" until well after the time of Christ; even Masons admit readily that Baphomet is a pagan fertility god-and more importantly, that Freemasonry is a fertility cult religion. Supreme Masonic leader of the Scottish Rite in the 19th century Albert Pike also clearly equates Freemasonry with "occult science" and Templary.

This certainly ought to be enough to convince any sane Christian that Masonry is of the devil!

2) We do not have a copy of the article from the English publication, but are working on getting one. In the meantime, I am enclosing copies of the article which referenced the article (secondary source); and more importantly, the primary source of the quote in the original French document which the English Masonic magazine quoted (primary source). Naturally, it is in French, and it is a bad photocopy, because it is a rare book. However, it is readable and easy to determine that it is the original quote.

3) THE EQUINOX, vol.3, no.1 is (sadly) currently in storage. Our ministry moved in the past two months; and about half of our library had to go into storage. It would be impossible to currently find. Write me again after the end of January and I will send it to you.

4) The fact that the obelisk is a phallic symbol is something so readily known that it hardly needs to be proven. As for it being a Masonic symbol, why else do you think it is the symbol of the Washington monument? I would really recommend that you get the book, THE TWO BABYLONS by Rev. Hislop. It will exhaustively deal with this entire line of research, from a Biblical Christian perspective.

The so-called "All-Seeing Eye" is actually the Ut Chut (also spelled Wedjat) Eye is associated both with Osiris and satanist Aleister Crowley's god, Horus (Ra Hoor Khuit). An ancient Egyptian coffin text even refers to it as the "all-seeing eye of Horus."

5) The MYSTIC SHRINE ritual book is difficult to acquire. If there are pages that you need out of it, we will be happy to photocopy them for you. It would be nice if you could send a small donation to cover the cost.

We certainly do appreciate all that you are trying to do here. However, if I can address a broader philosophical point here; you may be working harder than you need to. You may be trying to swat a fly with an H-bomb! Let me explain.

From bitter experience, I can tell you that you can provide all the documents you have requested and Masons will still not believe you. First of all, you must pray for them; that the spiritual darkness over their eyes might be broken by the power of the Cross. You need to assert your authority in Jesus Christ and follow the mandate of 2Cor. 10:4-5:

(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

You also need to realize that you don't need to deal with all of these issues necessarily. There are simple things which every Mason knows and does not need to be educated about which will more than establish the anti-Biblical nature of the Lodge. I am enclosing a tract of ours, called "Shedding Light on the Lodge" which deals with some simpler approaches.

Don't get me wrong! The "Baphomet" tract is great, and we have had dozens of letters of people who have gotten saved out of Masonry because of it. It just needs to be used with prayer and sensitivity. If the Lord really leads you to share it with a Mason then do so! The Mason's heart might be ready to receive it. However, in many cases, most Masons have never heard of this stuff (just like the Mason in the tract itself!) and unless you happen to have a trunk full of documentation down the block, your efforts may be wasted. However, the simpler approach doesn't need so many arcane documents to be proven, and most Masons will readily acknowledge the truth of what is being said.

I hope that this material helps. God bless you richly, and sorry that you had to wait so long for this answer; but we get hundreds of letters a month to answer (as you can imagine).

Praising the name of Jesus forever,

Bill Schnoebelen
Saints Alive
Box 1076
Issaquah, WA. 98027

---------------------------------------------------------------
The Sigil of the Baphomet: This is a pentacle form, with two points pointing upwards, one downwards, and one to each side. This is an upturned or inversed pentacle. The point-up pentangle represents the Spirituality of mankind as is used by Pagans and spiritualists although it was also used by early Christians ('victory of spirit over matter'[1]) The point-down pentangle represents the carnal side of mankind rather than the spiritual ('victory of matter over spirit'[1]) . The Sigil of the Baphomet is a design based on the upturned pentacle.

Inside the pentacle is the image of a goat, it's horns filling the upper two points, it's ears filling the two lateral ones, and it's mouth filling the lower one. This is Satan. The goat and pentacle theme is very old, and has it's origins in alchemy. The pentacle is surrounded by two circles the innermost touching the points of the pentacle. In between the two circles are 5 Hebrew characters, spelling LVTHN anticlockwise: Leviathan.

LaVey describes the two anterior points as 'an attack on heaven'. It is an attack on the concept that Human Beings are toys of any god; a creation of any being or that there exists any being we should worship just because it exists; the Satanist reserves this privilege for himself only. He describes the posterior point and the two lateral points as "a denial of the trinity", referring to the Christian concept of the Trinity. I prefer not to refer specifically to the Christian doctrines and sometimes summarize the two lateral points as representing "two feet on the Earth"; i.e.; Belial. The attack on Heaven & right hand path is representative of Lucifer.

A modern interpretation is that it represents fertility, success and power.

"The symbol of Baphomet was used by the Knights Templar to represent Satan. Through the ages this symbol has been called by many different names. Among these are: The Goat of Mendes, The Goat of a Thousand Young, The Black Goat, The Judas Goat, and perhaps most appropriately, The Scapegoat"

So the goat is the official seal of the satanists and u'r sayng how wonderfull it is.
Baphomet was worshipped by the Knights Templar, and in Black Magic and it has alot to do with masoneri




posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 12:32 PM
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The Freemasons are very superstitious and are really big into numerology. Every number has a secret and special meaning. They have secret signs and symbols and numbers by the trainload -- all to give them what they believe to be spiritual power.

We all know the Freemasons (through the Duponts) designed Washington DC. Therefore, it's not surprising that there are obelisks and secret patterns and special significance in the entire layout -- from the street numbers to the shape and design of the streets. It's all part of their NWO designs for a world to be ruled by Lucifer (Ra, Baal, Bel, Molech, Satan, whatever, all the same person.)

Read this link, and see the pictures, aereal photos of DC, to get a glimpse of exactly what I'm getting at here.

www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...




[edit on 23-10-2005 by resistance]



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by resistance
Read this link to get a glimpse of exactly what I'm getting at here.

www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...


Do you have any idea how many times that link has been posted here - and refuted?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Dude, you really need to do some archival reading on this board. It would save you alot of time and effort.


And you still haven't responded to my earlier posts...



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by resistance
The Freemasons are very superstitious and are really big into numerology.


Resistance, there you go again with a blanket statement. I'm a Freemason and I'm not the LEAST bit superstitious. For that matter numerology doesn't interest me at all.

Why do you keep saying such silly things? Surely you don't believe them, so why would you expect thinking people to believe them? c'mon




They have secret signs and symbols and numbers by the trainload


Is that what bothers you? The secrets? Just because no one will tell you? Do you think just because something is not broadcast from the mountain-tops it must be evil? Paranoia is a fascinating thing, resistance....



-- all to give them what they believe to be spiritual power.


Nope. Not true. Where did you hear that nonsense???



We all know the Freemasons (through the Duponts) designed Washington DC. Therefore, it's not surprising that there are obelisks and secret patterns


"Secret patterns" Must not be a very good secret if you (and everyone in the world know about them, huh?



and special significance in the entire layout -- from the street numbers to the shape and design of the streets. It's all part of their NWO designs for a world to be ruled by Lucifer (Ra, Baal, Bel, Molech, Satan, whatever, all the same person.)


How, resistance, HOW can the DESIGN and layout of a city be part of a plan to rule the world????? Will people see the designs and read the street names and suddenly become brain-washed???? Is it hypnotism? What about the criss-cross streets that a lot of cities have? Is that to make us all want to play tic-tac-toe? (I hope not because that's a BORING game...almost as boring as the nonsense you keep posting here on a subject you cannot and do not comprehend)




Read this link, and see the pictures, aereal photos of DC, to get a glimpse of exactly what I'm getting at here.


--YAWN--
No thank you, I'll pass, but again I'll refer you to an ATS search where you'll see that this topic has been worn out here.

(Wake me up if anything interesting happens here...)



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 01:09 PM
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Originally posted by The Axeman
Do you have any idea how many times that link has been posted here - and refuted?
Dude, you really need to do some archival reading on this board. It would save you alot of time and effort.



Axe,

I get the feeling that resistance is following the path of several such bridge-dwellers before him. He doesn't WANT to read what's been posted...he'd prefer to get attention by posting more and more unsubstantiated nonsense.

In that light (resistance, did you catch the secret-Masonic reference there?) I suppose that we encourage him by responding to his drivel...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADDENDUM regarding the post below.

Yep, Axeman, I was right. resistance is not worthy of responding to. he's getting good at trolling...too good.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Regards...er...I mean Fraternally,











[edit on 23-10-2005 by senrak]



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 02:55 PM
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Didn't mean to distract from Pepsi's stuff. What do you Luciferians have to say about his posts? I don't want to be rude. When you're through with what he has to say, then we can pick up on the Freemason's constructions done in the capital. And also the AntiMasonic party, and what John Adams had to say about you guys, and also Governor Joseph R.'s defense of George Washington.

But for now, what do you have to say about Baphomet et al?



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by resistance
Didn't mean to distract from Pepsi's stuff. What do you Luciferians have to say about his posts? I don't want to be rude. When you're through with what he has to say, then we can pick up on the Freemason's constructions done in the capital. And also the AntiMasonic party, and what John Adams had to say about you guys, and also Governor Joseph R.'s defense of George Washington.

But for now, what do you have to say about Baphomet et al?


I have already responded to the Baphomet posts, as has Khonsu, which reminds me...


You have voted Khonsu for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.


...I have already addressed the Washington DC post at length, as well as the Luciferian nonsense. As my good friend Stalkingwolf says, "Your mind is made up; no need to confuse yourself with facts."

I'm finished with you. You won't even respond to my posts, because they completely discount everything you are saying, and you, like most trolls, seem to have a problem admitting that you are mistaken. So with that, I bid you farewell (unless, of course, you can come up with a response to my previous posts).

Have a lovely day.


[edit on 10/23/05 by The Axeman]



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 05:13 PM
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Well, Mr. Axeman, I don't mind leaving your thread, no sense in giving you extra points anyway.

And since you have a moderator here who behaves like a thug and is an Eastern Star Freemason as well, I don't want to be accused of plagiarism again and have a whole boatload of points deducted. Apparently your moderator champion felt she had to come in and rescue you guys because you weren't doing too good a job of defending your cult. Yes, I agree with Zman -- that nice gentleman who posted at the beginning of this awful thread, who was trying in his humble way to explain why he didn't want to join the Masons, even though many of his friends and family were part of it.

You people just threaten and jeer and name-call. You don't play fair. You are quite mean and your behavior is obnoxious.

You deserve to have this forum all to yourselves to erect strawmen and knock them down, and promote the false idea amongs yourselves that Freemasonry is a good thing, just a nice men's club to perform charities and improve the community. Ha!

We are about to enter into the NWO where everyone will be controlled, microchipped, controlled even to and including what they are allowed to think and to say. Anyone who wants to remain free must run and live in the mountains or the caves and hope people like you aren't able to track them down.

When that NWO does come about, all I can say is that you guys all deserve each other, and happy utopia.



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by resistance
Well, Mr. Axeman, I don't mind leaving your thread, no sense in giving you extra points anyway.

And since you have a moderator here who behaves like a thug and is an Eastern Star Freemason as well, I don't want to be accused of plagiarism again and have a whole boatload of points deducted. Apparently your moderator champion felt she had to come in and rescue you guys because you weren't doing too good a job of defending your cult.


First of all, he is a Freemason; I don't know if he is Eastern Star or not, but either way it has no bearing on his performance of his duties at ATS, I can assure you.


You people just threaten and jeer and name-call. You don't play fair. You are quite mean and your behavior is obnoxious.


Now you've gone and hurt my feelings. *cries*



You deserve to have this forum all to yourselves to erect strawmen and knock them down, and promote the false idea amongs yourselves that Freemasonry is a good thing, just a nice men's club to perform charities and improve the community. Ha!


ROFL


We are about to enter into the NWO where everyone will be controlled, microchipped, controlled even to and including what they are allowed to think and to say. Anyone who wants to remain free must run and live in the mountains or the caves and hope people like you aren't able to track them down.

When that NWO does come about, all I can say is that you guys all deserve each other, and happy utopia.


This whole post was a case in point.

Show me one place where I have treated you with disrespect. The bottom line is that you have no way to back up your accusations and "theories," so you resort to ad hominem attacks in lieu of pertinent information. Like most who have come before you, you have presented someone else's theories, and when unable to back them up with your own information collected by your own research, you now tuck your tail and leave the thread.

Typical indeed.

P.S. I could care less about a few points; as you can see I have more than enough; but if you need to believe that by leaving the thread you are denying me points, well then that is your prerogative. The truth is, however, that you simply cannot back up your claims.

When you feel you can do a better job of making your case, feel free to come back... we'll be here.


[edit on 10/23/05 by The Axeman]



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 05:40 PM
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I would just like to ask a question. I know nothing of the Masons or exactly what they are about. My grandfather is a Mason and has been since he was 21.....he is 75. He is a veteran,a devout Christian,and a truly great man. I've read some threads on here saying terrible things about Masonic lodge members and I cannot help but honestly believe they are untrue. I don't believe my grandfather is a satan worshiper,or a member of an evil society. So,my question is to those of you who are Masons: why do people think these things? Where do people come up with these ideas about your order?



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 05:51 PM
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OKay Axeman a simple qestion do you have rituals?
Let's not forget the word ritual and it's meaning, simply answer yes or no.
I dont use rituals to learn geography or history so i think rituals are for religos people.
Let's see if you can admit you have them, that has a free masson you have them in the masonari.
Simply answer yes or no.



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 06:07 PM
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Originally posted by pepsi78
OKay Axeman a simple qestion do you have rituals?
Let's not forget the word ritual and it's meaning, simply answer yes or no.


Of course we do. And as far as the meaning of ritual? Let's see...


From: www.dictionary.com...

rit·u·al - n.

1.
a. The prescribed order of a religious ceremony.
b. The body of ceremonies or rites used in a place of worship.

2.
a. The prescribed form of conducting a formal secular ceremony: the ritual of an inauguration.
b. The body of ceremonies used by a fraternal organization.

3. A book of rites or ceremonial forms.

4. rituals
a. A ceremonial act or a series of such acts.
b. The performance of such acts.

5.
a. A detailed method of procedure faithfully or regularly followed: My household chores have become a morning ritual.
b. A state or condition characterized by the presence of established procedure or routine.


I love how you guys try to act like there is only one definition of a given word. That doesn't say much for your vocabulary skills there, Chief.


I dont use rituals to learn geography or history so i think rituals are for religos people.
Let's see if you can admit you have them, that has a free masson you have them in the masonari.
Simply answer yes or no.


Like I said before, yes we do. No big secret that we have rituals.

Why don't you try addressing the points I have already made, rather than changing the subject?



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 06:13 PM
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Originally posted by psychosgirl
I would just like to ask a question. I know nothing of the Masons or exactly what they are about. My grandfather is a Mason and has been since he was 21.....he is 75. He is a veteran,a devout Christian,and a truly great man.


As was my Grandfather.



I've read some threads on here saying terrible things about Masonic lodge members and I cannot help but honestly believe they are untrue. I don't believe my grandfather is a satan worshiper,or a member of an evil society. So,my question is to those of you who are Masons: why do people think these things? Where do people come up with these ideas about your order?


I think that it boils down to the fact that for a long time, Masonry left the outside world to itself, and really did nothing to defend the Order against attacks and accusations of Anti-Masons; therefore, nowadays we fight an uphill battle to get out the truth about Masonry. We don't really have to justify ourselves to anyone; but when so many people are beleving lies and misconceptions, it only hurts us to ignore them. A lie told often enough will become truth to those who are unwilling or unable to find it for themselves.

The plain fact of the matter is that the accusations are preposterous, and almost all of the misconceptions come from hoaxes, ignorance, and misinformation. I'd be happy to discuss particulars with you if you would like.


[edit on 10/23/05 by The Axeman]



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 06:34 PM
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Okay so you admit you have rituals.

Step 2

I will get pictures of the rituals and if you explain them to me has they dont
make any sence to me.
I want to understand them.



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 08:19 PM
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Its all a big giant conspiracy!
The mysterious "They" made up these different cults, religions, and secret societs to keep us all fighting amongst ourselves!
Clearly they did this to hide the truth from us!
The matrix is real!
Free your mind!
FREE YOUR MIND!!!!!!!


On a serious and non-sarcastic note,
Who cares?
If the masons have a master plan to take over the earth then so be it, are you going to stop them?
Or for that matter, perhaps they are just an exclusive men's club that got really big and stuck around for centuries as a culturial icon.

Who cares if they worship satan, god, or technology?
Not me!
Everyone is entitled to their own religious beliefs.




[edit on 23-10-2005 by intrepid]



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 09:18 PM
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Yes mrjones we dont have a choise do we.
It's really just a matter of time it could be years and i just hope it does not hapen in my life time so i can live my life in peace.

It is clear to me that they have too many objects and words that point negativity and suspicios type.
You ask them about the piramid and the eye and they say it's just a simbol
and they have the nervs to denny and not to asocciate it with the one on the dolar bill wich is basicly the same thing the eye and the piramid has you can see it in their avarts every where and all over the masonari .
I beg you who didint read this to open the enciclopedia and to read on what the sun the piramid and the eye is all about.

Words like temple and altar the word altar apears in their rituals and i'm prety sure what a altar is.

To dress up in white roabs and to go around in circle is very very strange i must say and it points out that it is all about worshiping something and let's not forget the word worsip apears in the ritual.

And to add another thing about the goat they will simply say how wonderfull the goat is and how magic it that is and how the goat has to do with the sun.
I must point out that the goat is a masonic simboal and words like "ride the goat" are aoffen use among them

To me it's very clear the only thing is that i dont really know what we can do about it.
The only thing to hope for is that the one up there is looking at all this.
It is really the only thing that we can hope for has we are too small to do any thing.



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 09:45 PM
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Originally posted by pepsi78
I will get pictures of the rituals and if you explain them to me has they dont
make any sence to me.
I want to understand them.


Let me get this straight....

You make HORRIBLE accusations about Freemasons regarding Baphomet, etc.

THEN you admit that the rituals (which are none of your business as a non-Mason) don't make sense to you and you want to "understand them" ?????

Hmmm....sounds to me like you just want attention like your buddy resistance. Sad. Very sad. It's also a waste of everyone's time.



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 09:56 PM
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Originally posted by pepsi78
To me it's very clear the only thing is that i dont really know what we can do about it.
The only thing to hope for is that the one up there is looking at all this.
It is really the only thing that we can hope for has we are too small to do any thing.


It's that kind of thinking that Masonry abhors, I think that can be said with some degree of accuracy. You can do something. Start with yourself. Hold yourself responsible for your own words and actions, stop blaming the world's problems on everyone else, whether they exist or not, and do something about it. If there is anything that my studies of Masonry have taught me thus far, it's that no one is too small to do any thing.

Take responsibility for yourself.

And on that note, I'm done with you.



I hope you find what you are looking for... er... well... whatever that is.

[edit on 10/23/05 by The Axeman]



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 10:05 PM
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Originally posted by pepsi78

And to add another thing about the goat they will simply say how wonderfull the goat is and how magic it that is and how the goat has to do with the sun.
I must point out that the goat is a masonic simboal and words like "ride the goat" are aoffen use among them



Acutally, Baphomet is NOT A MASONIC SYMBOL its an esoteric symbol and its simply that a SYMBOL. When we Masons say "ride the goat" we arent even referring to Baphomet, so once again stop trying to deal with things you have no knowledge of what so ever. You guys are rediculous! I love how I posted a lengthy esoteric breakdown of Baphomet and both of you loons totally ignored it, but yet you want to have a serious dialog and exchange of ideas? Please, you guys are only interested in trying to slander our craft, and like all the trolls before you (oh and believe me there have been many) you will fail.

You guys are so caught up in thinking you know so much that you can't even realize you know absolutely nothing.



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 10:10 PM
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Alright, enough is enough. The name calling, well, let's face it, ALL of this attitude will end, NOW!

Red flags to follow.




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