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Why do some people feel the need to post outright lies about Masons and Masonry?

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posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by XanaX
Axeman....I notice you quote Pike in your signature line...the same Pike that did this:



1840 Albert Pike builds a mansion in Arkansas where he designs plans
for three world wars and three revolutions.


Truly a great man! Plotting world wars and revolutions. A true humanitarian. I could find more info on Pike, but why bother. He was a scumbag and basically a predecessor to Hitler.

quote from:
beyond-the-illusion.com...


Heheh. Aw, man! You got me!


Nope. No reson to rehash it here, 'cuz we've been there and done that.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I had a little mixup at first, but it's all pretty much laid out for you. If you can find something to add there, that would be great. I'm willing to go there if you want to try to prove it, but it's up to you.





posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by XanaX


Mate, it was a lenghty u2u, took time to write. So I suggest you read it, take it to heart and stop this crap on the board.


Stop this crap? Expressing my opinion is crap? I thought that was what this forum was for? I think you can let me know your opinion regarding how I broke rule #1 without threatening me. I understand what you believe I did and it won't happen again.....but in the future, maybe treat other adults like adults...not like children!....then maybe they will show you the respect you want. Respect breeds respect!

[edit on 22-10-2005 by XanaX]


This forum is NOT.. repeat NOT for opinion, it is for the debate of theory and fact, and opinion has nothing to do with either. i have alot of opinions regarding what is said here.. but i withhold them in favor of presenting facts and challening others to back up what they claim as fact. and if you will take notice.. the masons on this forum (and again, i am not a mason) do their best to do the same, and usually in the face of alot of propagadistic fluff spouted by people who happened arcoss a webpage full of lies and suddenly decides to take up the cause against freemasonry



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 02:29 PM
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OK guys, let's get back to the topic, whatever it is.



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
OK guys, let's get back to the topic, whatever it is.


Yes u'r right let's go back to the topic.

The topic it's self is in qestion cause it is not a fair topic.
The topic is:
"Why do some people feel the need to post outright lies about Masons and Masonry?"

How do you know it's a lie you must be a mason for sure.

Let's investigate let's look at the evidence and then jump to conclusions i would say.
All i hear is how good masons are and how they do all sort of wonderfull stuff.

Let the evidence speak.
Words will not do just simple words, i can say any thing ohhh how good i am i am a woderfull person.
The qestion is how do you know i'm all that?

Any masson that will come and try to disproof me i will argue with evidence each time it hapens.

I am not sayng that u'r all bad and most of you the majority don't have a idea what u'r in or what u'r part of.

Free massonary is something very complex and it will take time to learn to get to a level that's why you got steps you climbe up the piramid once you know more.

But to argue on what you don't know my friends is a big mistake(the top of the piramid) and i would say it's a prety ugly thing there at the top.



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 05:00 PM
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Here are some facts for you.
We all agree that George Washington was a masson.
George Washington seating in the goat position .





posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by pepsi78

Originally posted by intrepid
OK guys, let's get back to the topic, whatever it is.


Yes u'r right let's go back to the topic.

The topic it's self is in qestion cause it is not a fair topic.
The topic is:
"Why do some people feel the need to post outright lies about Masons and Masonry?"

How do you know it's a lie you must be a mason for sure.


Well, seeing as I am the original post author, and seeing as I wasn't a Mason at the time, I would have to disagree. You do not have to be a Mason to learn about Masonry. I'm walking proof.


Let's investigate let's look at the evidence and then jump to conclusions i would say.
All i hear is how good masons are and how they do all sort of wonderfull stuff.


We do, as a whole, contribute alot to society; but I wouldn't say that's all we say about ourselves.

Alot of Masons do say such things, and it is true that Masons donate alot to charity, but to be honest they usually use out-of-date figures. That is not to say that they do it intentionally, but it does happen.


Let the evidence speak.


So show me the evidence.


Words will not do just simple words, i can say any thing ohhh how good i am i am a woderfull person.
The qestion is how do you know i'm all that?


I guess we would have to take your word for it.


Any masson that will come and try to disproof me i will argue with evidence each time it hapens.


Alright, I am that Mason. Where is the evidence?


I am not sayng that u'r all bad and most of you the majority don't have a idea what u'r in or what u'r part of.


And yet somehow you, a non-Mason who has obviously done limited research, do?



Free massonary is something very complex and it will take time to learn to get to a level that's why you got steps you climbe up the piramid once you know more.


But yet you know all about it and you're not even a member?



But to argue on what you don't know my friends is a big mistake(the top of the piramid) and i would say it's a prety ugly thing there at the top.


And you know all about how "ugly" it is at the top of the "pyramid," huh? Hmmmmmm... How is that?

You show me the "proof," I'll show it to be false.

Ready... Set... GO!!!

P.S. As for Baphomet, read my posts here and here. You're up, slugger.




[edit on 10/22/05 by The Axeman]



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 05:58 PM
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Don't you even ask u'r self about the pictures that i put up.
Does it put questions on u'r mind?
I was waiting for some kind of contra argument against them but i guess you got none.

Here is another thing masons try to say over and over that masonari is not a religion.

I'm still waiting for explenations on the first pictures i put up so far i got none, mean while take a look at this.

To proof that masoneri is a religion.



Has you can see it says temple.
You should ceck the dictionary on what the word temple means.

A temple is asociated with religion and with out religion the word temple has no meaning.
If you would say temple of the learning it would be incorect has in just a temple for learning.
The word temple has to do with religion and should not be asocciated with any thing else.



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 06:27 PM
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Originally posted by pepsi78
Don't you even ask u'r self about the pictures that i put up.
Does it put questions on u'r mind?
I was waiting for some kind of contra argument against them but i guess you got none.


Uhhhhh, dude? I already covered that. Here, I'll make it really easy for you:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Originally posted by The Axeman

Originally posted by akilles
So now that you know the sculpture I am talking about, please don't just post another link, and leave me assuming they conclude that there was no connection between said topics. Thank you.


OK I'll play.

You're talking about this sculpture:






Fair enough. Now a pic of the drawing of Baphomet by Eliphas Levi:



Now I can see that in both of these pictures, the subject is pointing up with the right hand, and (arguably in the case of Washington, it looks to me as if he's offering his sword) down with the left. There the similarities cease, unless of course you consider the bare chest.

So what? What's your great point, now that I've done the work for you? Enlighten us, give us some commentary on how these two pieces are so inextricably intertwined as to spell out the insidious connections you have alleged. I'm breathless with anticipation...

Here are the Connections: Eliphas Levi drew the picture of Baphomet. George Washington was a Freemason. All four elements of your argument connected and laid out for you. I still don't see your point, but hey what do I know, I'm just a bastard who needs a nap.

*bell rings* Class dismissed.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Originally posted by The Axeman
Good stuff my friend, but I was talking about Eliphas Levi. Perhaps he didn't "come up with" Baphomet, but he did elaborate and he drew this representation:



and here is a quote about his interpretation of the symbolism in his drawing:


from www.templarhistory.com...

Lévi's Drawing: An Examination
It is believed that within Lévi's Baphomet, are contained the dualistic nature of life and the male female aspects of creation. The image combines both male and female qualities; one arm masculine, one feminine; the breasts of a woman with a phallic object on its lap; one arm pointing skyward while one pointing down, perhaps a representation of the Hermetic axiom "As Above...So Below". The illustration also shows one arm points toward a white crescent moon the other towards a dark crescent moon, perhaps a representation of the waxing and waning phases of the moon but it could also represent the duality of good and evil. On the right arm is written "Solve" Solution and on the Left "Coagula" Coagulation. These are references found in alchemy a study that Lévi not only undertook but also wrote about in his books.

Here is what Eliphas Lévi had to say about the Baphomet image he drew.
My thanks go to Christian Joachim Hartmann for providing me with this translation from Lévi's book:

"The goat on the frontispiece carries the sign of the pentagram on the forehead, with one point at the top, a symbol of light, his two hands forming the sign of hermetism, the one pointing up to the white moon of Chesed, the other pointing down to the black one of Geburah. This sign expresses the perfect harmony of mercy with justice. His one arm is female, the other male like the ones of the androgyn of Khunrath, the attributes of which we had to unite with those of our goat because he is one and the same symbol. The flame of intelligence shining between his horns is the magic light of the universal balance, the image of the soul elevated above matter, as the flame, whilst being tied to matter, shines above it. The ugly beast's head expresses the horror of the sinner, whose materially acting, solely reponsible part has to bear the punishment exclusively; because the soul is insensitive according to its nature and can only suffer when it materializes. The rod standing instead of genitals symbolizes eternal life, the body covered with scales the water, the semi- circle above it the atmosphere, the feathers following above the volatile. Humanity is represented by the two breasts and the androgyn arms of this sphinx of the occult sciences."


Some ignorant fools just MUST see evil where there is none, frankly it makes me sad for them. There is so much more to the world and everything in it if only people will open their eyes or "take off their blinders" as our friend above so adamantly suggests we do.

I had blinders on for a long time pal, and now that I have removed them, my sight is returning slowly but surely. It's amazing what you can discover if you will only shut your mouth for a bit and watch, listen, and learn.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Here is another thing masons try to say over and over that masonari is not a religion.

I'm still waiting for explenations on the first pictures i put up so far i got none, mean while take a look at this.

To proof that masoneri is a religion.



Has you can see it says temple.
You should ceck the dictionary on what the word temple means.

A temple is asociated with religion and with out religion the word temple has no meaning.
If you would say temple of the learning it would be incorect has in just a temple for learning.
The word temple has to do with religion and should not be asocciated with any thing else.


Wow. I'm speechless...


OK, check out these threads, and you tell me what else you want to argue about that isn't already been covered.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'll be happy to discuss with you but perhaps you should read what has already been written about it, and go from there.



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 06:37 PM
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I can see you got some arguments about the goat how ever i still find it disturbing that he seats in the same position has the goat.
But what about the temple how can you explain that because i know very well what the word "temple" means.
I am not makeing you incompetent but i do want you to ceck the dictionary
to see what it exactly means.
After all we are all here to find the truf.



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 07:02 PM
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Some will say that him seating like the goat is pure coincidents some will argue that the goat is made to seat like him.
How ever this thing "the goat and it's position" has a major role in the satanic church has they pray to it and do all sort of things around it.
I will try to get some pics of it showing you that they have it in the church and it will be a pic of the goat in the curch seating in the same possition.

And now this is official that iluminati was oficcialy pressent in the past and it was bustesd by the police.
What does it have to do with massons?
It broke out of the free masonari movment the french one to me more exact.
Remember this is a official story and it's been around the news.

I have tons of documentarys related to this mater and i'll get some pics out of them

So you can have a coincidence
But where there are alot of them it becomes suspicios.
Maybe you people are good i personaly don't know you.
So maybe you have good intentions but i'm not sure about the top of it.
and you u'r self has an individual you got to investigate and not deny all.
Where you see some you cant argue on it would be nice to admit it.

I belive that all the leaders important ones are masons event if we dont know it for sure it's the blood lines and i'm sayng that their ways are not so healthy.
And it's a shame that they hide stuff and state after taht it's democracy.

To stick on the topic i dont hate all of you but "u'r hiden masters" has you call them are makeing some very bad decisions for us now and it afects me you and the rest of us sooner or later.



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 07:22 PM
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Originally posted by pepsi78
I can see you got some arguments about the goat how ever i still find it disturbing that he seats in the same position has the goat.


Umm no he's not...the goat appears to have its legs crossed Washington does not.



But what about the temple how can you explain that because i know very well what the word "temple" means.
I am not makeing you incompetent but i do want you to ceck the dictionary
to see what it exactly means.
After all we are all here to find the truf.


I did...and you are correct in one form of the definition of the word...but other's also apply.....
[emphasis mine]


Quote from dictionary.reference.com...

tem·ple1 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tmpl)
n.

1. A building dedicated to religious ceremonies or worship.
a.Temple Either of two successive buildings in ancient Jerusalem serving as the primary center for Jewish worship.
b.Judaism. A synagogue, especially of a Reform congregation.
c.Mormon Church. A building in which the sacred ordinances are administered.
2.Something regarded as having within it a divine presence.
3. A building used for meetings by any of several fraternal orders, especially the Knights Templars.
4. A building reserved for a highly valued function: the library, a temple of learning.

5. Temple Either of two groups of buildings in London, the Inner Temple and the Middle Temple, that house two of the four Inns of Court and that occupy the site of the medieval Knights Templars establishment.


As you can see there are many meanings for the word temple. Let us not for get about the soft spots beside your eyes...oh yes those too are called temples......

So just because you don't like the multiple meanings of the word, or feel that it should be reserved for churches, doesn't mean that it's use is wrong.


[edit] spelling


[edit on 22-10-2005 by Golfie]



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 07:44 PM
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Originally posted by Golfie

Originally posted by pepsi78
I can see you got some arguments about the goat how ever i still find it disturbing that he seats in the same position has the goat.


Umm no he's not...the goat appears to have its legs crossed Washington does not.



But what about the temple how can you explain that because i know very well what the word "temple" means.
I am not makeing you incompetent but i do want you to ceck the dictionary
to see what it exactly means.
After all we are all here to find the truf.


I did...and you are correct in one form of the definition of the word...but other's also apply.....
[emphasis mine]


Quote from dictionary.reference.com...

tem·ple1 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tmpl)
n.

1. A building dedicated to religious ceremonies or worship.
a.Temple Either of two successive buildings in ancient Jerusalem serving as the primary center for Jewish worship.
b.Judaism. A synagogue, especially of a Reform congregation.
c.Mormon Church. A building in which the sacred ordinances are administered.
2.Something regarded as having within it a divine presence.
3. A building used for meetings by any of several fraternal orders, especially the Knights Templars.
4. A building reserved for a highly valued function: the library, a temple of learning.

5. Temple Either of two groups of buildings in London, the Inner Temple and the Middle Temple, that house two of the four Inns of Court and that occupy the site of the medieval Knights Templars establishment.


As you can see there are many meanings for the word temple. Let us not for get about the soft spots beside your eyes...oh yes those too are called temples......

So just because you don't like the multiple meanings of the word, or feel that it should be resereved for churches, doesn't mean that it's use is wrong.







Tell me what is the oldest meaning for a temple and where did it come from.

If i want to go some where to learn i sure wont say i'm going to the temple.
I will for sure say i am going to the library.

it would be silly for me to say hey today why dont we go to the temple of learning to get some books.

And the rest would go hmmmm to where.

Okay let me put it this way how many of the librarys you know are called temples besides the so called temple library of the masons



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 07:54 PM
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www.wordreference.com...



temple:
in Spanish | in French | in Italian |
in context | images

Adapted From: WordNet 2.0 Copyright 2003 by Princeton University. All rights reserved.

temple
A noun
1 synagogue, temple, tabernacle

(Judaism) the place of worship for a Jewish congregation
Category Tree:
entity
╚object; physical_object
╚artifact; artefact
╚structure; construction
╚building; edifice
╚place_of_worship; house_of_prayer; house_of_God; house_of_worship
╚synagogue, temple, tabernacle
╚Temple_of_Jerusalem; Temple_of_Solomon
2 temple

place of worship consisting of an edifice for the worship of a deity
Category Tree:
entity
╚object; physical_object
╚artifact; artefact
╚structure; construction
╚building; edifice
╚place_of_worship; house_of_prayer; house_of_God; house_of_worship
╚temple
╚Temple_of_Artemis
╚Tabernacle; Mormon_Tabernacle
╚Parthenon
╚pantheon
╚pagoda
╚joss_house
3 temple

an edifice devoted to special or exalted purposes
Category Tree:
entity
╚object; physical_object
╚artifact; artefact
╚structure; construction
╚building; edifice
╚temple
╚ziggurat; zikkurat; zikurat
4 temple

the flat area on either side of the forehead; "the veins in his temple throbbed"
Category Tree:
entity
╚thing
╚part; piece
╚body_part
╚feature; lineament
╚temple



A temple has religon in to it from top to the botom face it



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 08:33 PM
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Originally posted by pepsi78
If i want to go some where to learn i sure wont say i'm going to the temple.
I will for sure say i am going to the library.

it would be silly for me to say hey today why dont we go to the temple of learning to get some books.

And the rest would go hmmmm to where.

Okay let me put it this way how many of the librarys you know are called temples besides the so called temple library of the masons


Should have quit while you were ahead (actually, you never were, you should have just quit).


Let's see, a temple library that has nothing to do with religion...

www.innertemplelibrary.org.uk...

Is that the only one?

www.library.temple.edu...

Nope, guess not...

www.youseemore.com...

Well that's got to be it...

www.sswt.org...

Not done yet?

www.middletemplelibrary.org.uk...

All right, I've had enough...

www.texasescapes.com...

Google is really annoying...


www.johnwesley.edu...

Now that we have that settled...

Temple Monkeys, not just from making people's heads pound anymore...

[edit on 22/10/2005 by Mirthful Me]



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 09:20 PM
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As far as the George Washington statue...aka the Vagabond Statue...let's look at some history of it....



Quote from: www.senate.gov...

On July 31, 1841, a sailing vessel from Leghorn, Italy, docked at the Washington Navy Yard. It carried a massive ten-foot-high, twelve-ton marble statue of a seated man wearing only a Roman toga. The artist was the noted American sculptor Horatio Greenough; the marble man, modeled after the Greek god Zeus, was George Washington.


So it seems that Washington was modeled after someone...just not Levi's picture...but the Greek god Zeus.



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 09:42 PM
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You will have to do alot more to convince me.
Thank god you are not a 33 degree one or i would bee asasinated on spot

Temple is a casual word for religos types activities and it's more used for that than for some other stuff.

Hei this seems religios to me
You all dressing in white robes and going around in a circle.
Too many coincidences

here is another one of them rituals , strange to do that if you only go there to learn stuff



Oh i dont know how that got past me



The thing that there is to many coincidences flowting around the masons.
People don't make up stuff things are just there.

And you dissmiss them to fast.
There are just too many facts to be coincidence.

The us dolar bill is all mason you got the eye and the piramid on it.
Arhiologists dug up in egypt and has proof that the eye on the top of the piramid is the eye of the egyptian god horis the god of the dead .
Since you got piramids and eyes all over your simbols event in u'r avarts here on the forum it is safe to asume that either you are influenced to deny all or maybe you do know something that u'r not telling us.
But i dont really careas long has i know the true story.
This topic is about "why"...... so you got my opinion





[edit on 22-10-2005 by pepsi78]



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 03:33 AM
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For the last time Baphomet is not associated with Satan or the Devil!

Again you uninitiated, unstudied individuals need to stop dealing with things you have no understanding of, its really annoying. So I'm going to put this Baphomet, Goat devil nonsense to rest by explaining the esoteric meaning behind it. So from this post on NO ONE ON ATS CAN EVER CLAIM IT TO BE RELATED TO ANYTHING SATANIC BECAUSE ITS NOT AND THE TRUE MEANING BEHIND IT CAN BE FOUND BELOW.

Baphomet, The Goat of Mendes

The word "Baphomet" is derived from the Greek term "Baph Metis", which means "baptism of light". The image of Baphomet was compiled and drawn by Eliphas Levi, he was not a Freemason. The image of Baphomet contains a Goat head, androgynous characteristics, wings and various hermetic symbols. The figure is seated legs crossed on a cube with rests upon an orb. A femanine arm points up towards an increasing cresent moon and a masculine arm points downward to a decreasing cresent moon. Each arm has written on it a word in latin, "Solve" and "Coagula". Between the horns of the head is a pentagram and also a torch. The chest features a pair of breasts and below them there is a caduces.

In all, these combined symbols illustrate the seven hermetic principles and the duality of all, in short it illustrates the principles of the universe. The torch symbolizes the divine light which all initiates seek. The Goat is a phallic symbol and an emblem of courage or aspiration. To the alchemists the goat's head was the symbol of sulphur. Sulphur has a wealth of deep esoteric meaning which must be explored to fully comprehend the vastness of this image. In tarot the "hanged Man" hanging upside down by his left leg from a horizontal beam suspended between two tree trunks with the right leg of the man crossed in back of the left and arms folded behind his back, elbows pointing out from the sides, forming an inverted pentagram, or symbol of sulphur. Levi declared that the upturned feet signify the spiritualization of the lower nature. It is also possible that the inverted figure denotes the loss of the spiritual faculties, as the head is below the level of the body. To attain ones highest potential , therefore, man must reverse, or invert, the order of his life. In the pseudo-Egyptian Tarot the hanged man is suspended between two palm trees and signifies the Sun God who dies perrennially for this world. In alchemy there are three symbolic substances: mercury, sulphur and salt. The interesting thing is that although listed sepereately each of these substances contain within it the other two, salt therefore is threefold, namely salt, sulphur and mercury. The same rule applies to mercury and sulphur. This alchemical trinity is allegorial to the divine trinity of Father Son and Holy Spirit, Mind body and Soul, Life death and resurrection, Man Woman and Child, Knoweldge Wisdom and Understanding etc. Sulphur because of its firey nature is also associated with the Sun. The Sun is of course the great light bearer and life giver.

The 5 pointed star or pentagram which appears on the goats forehead is a symbol for the microcosm, the divine formula of man. It represents one rising out of four, the human soul rising from its lower animal nature. It is the "star of the morning" and represents the five senses of man, the five elements of nature and the five extremeties of the human body. The Pentagram has no relation to Satanism or Black Magic. In fact Black Magic has no true symbols, as it is not a fundamental art. Instead it relies upon the symbols of so called "white magic" and by inverting them creates symbols which signify or illustrate the opposite or reciprocal principles. Which, never the less illustrates a key point which is crucial to understaind Baphomet, the Hermetic principle of correspondence. The Head of Baphomet outlines an inverted pentagram while a normal pentagram rests upon its forehead. Together they represent both sides of the "magical" spectrum and cancel each other out making it neutral.

The wings of Baphomet represent aspiration, ascendence and beauty. They also represent transcendence beyond the physical form and world. The male and female features of Baphomet represent the masuline and femanine energies and principles which exist in all things in the universe and it illustrates the balance and equality bewteen them. The latin word "Solve" means to loosen, break up, untie, release, free, disolve or solve. The latin word "Coagula" means to bind, bunch or tie up, to bring together, in short they are opposites, and thus once again express the universal principle of polarity. Additionally they illustrate the 2 constant principles of existance, the process of building and destroying, life and death, creation and disection. Life..... existance is a constant state of the two, although seemingly different they walk hand in hand, one cannot take place without the other, and thus one cannont exist without the other.

The arm of Baphomet pointing upward represents the hermetic law of correspondence illustrating the statement "as is above" while the arm pointing downward finishes the statement by representing "so is below". Pointing at an ascending and descending moon, one light one dark it illustrates again the duality between light and darkness, good and evil, knowledge and ignorance, day and night, life and death, the eternal cycle. Again, one cannot exist without the other, because without Darkness, how could you define light, and vice versa.

The Caduces is an ancient egyptian symbol often reffered to as the staff of Hermes or more appropriately Tehuti. Contemporarely it is a symbol of the medical field, yet esoterically the two snakes entertwined rising upward around a pole represents the divine fire of man rising up to its pinacle and activating the divine nature within him.

Baphomet sits on a cube which represents the physical world. This cube sits on top of an orb which represents the spiritual world. Both of these sybols are simply a square and a circle which mathematicall is the same thing with a value of 360 degress. Together the cube and sphere represent the complete world both physical and spiritual.

This is the breakdown of Baphomet. Write it down.... study.

You can thank me later.


[edit on 10/23/05 by Khonsu]



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 06:04 AM
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Becon of Light: You said:


This forum is NOT.. repeat NOT for opinion, it is for the debate of theory and fact, and opinion has nothing to do with either. i have alot of opinions regarding what is said here.. but i withhold them in favor of presenting facts and challening others to back up what they claim as fact. and if you will take notice.. the masons on this forum (and again, i am not a mason) do their best to do the same, and usually in the face of alot of propagadistic fluff spouted by people who happened arcoss a webpage full of lies and suddenly decides to take up the cause against freemasonry


This forum most certainly IS -- repeat IS -- FOR OPINION. And it's my opinion that the Freemasons is a diabolical, evil organization that has caused more mischief throughout history than almost any group and tells more lies in one hour than any of these "propagandist websites" do in a year. I can back this OPINION up with facts and maybe I will and maybe I won't. That's my business. But that's MY OPINION. Furthermore, I challenge you to back up your opinion WITH FACT that this is not a place for OPINIONS. And since you are against people using webpages to defend their (ahem) OPINIONS then you are NOT ALLOWED TO USE ANY WEBPAGES. Got it? That is final. DO YOU UNDERSTAND? You are not allowed to spout any Masonic lies and propagandist fluff that you find in any webpages. I hope you understand me.

Also, how are you able to have such strong opinions yourself about Masons if you aren't one yourself? Hmmm? You haven't been reading any propagandist fluff on any webpages HAVE YOU? You are NOT -- I repeat -- NOT allowed to do that. Have I made myself clear?

NOTE for Mirthful Me, Star Extraordinaire (Eastern Star?): Just being sarcastic. Please don't take any points away.

[edit on 23-10-2005 by resistance]



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 06:19 AM
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Originally posted by Khonsu
For the last time Baphomet is not associated with Satan or the Devil!

Again you uninitiated, unstudied individuals need to stop dealing with things you have no understanding of, its really annoying. So I'm going to put this Baphomet, Goat devil nonsense to rest by explaining the esoteric meaning behind it. So from this post on NO ONE ON ATS CAN EVER CLAIM IT TO BE RELATED TO ANYTHING SATANIC BECAUSE ITS NOT AND THE TRUE MEANING BEHIND IT CAN BE FOUND BELOW.

Baphomet, The Goat of Mendes

The word "Baphomet" is derived from the Greek term "Baph Metis", which means "baptism of light". The image of Baphomet was compiled and drawn by Eliphas Levi, he was not a Freemason. The image of Baphomet contains a Goat head, androgynous characteristics, wings and various hermetic symbols. The figure is seated legs crossed on a cube with rests upon an orb. A femanine arm points up towards an increasing cresent moon and a masculine arm points downward to a decreasing cresent moon. Each arm has written on it a word in latin, "Solve" and "Coagula". Between the horns of the head is a pentagram and also a torch. The chest features a pair of breasts and below them there is a caduces.

In all, these combined symbols illustrate the seven hermetic principles and the duality of all, in short it illustrates the principles of the universe. The torch symbolizes the divine light which all initiates seek. The Goat is a phallic symbol and an emblem of courage or aspiration. To the alchemists the goat's head was the symbol of sulphur. Sulphur has a wealth of deep esoteric meaning which must be explored to fully comprehend the vastness of this image. In tarot the "hanged Man" hanging upside down by his left leg from a horizontal beam suspended between two tree trunks with the right leg of the man crossed in back of the left and arms folded behind his back, elbows pointing out from the sides, forming an inverted pentagram, or symbol of sulphur. Levi declared that the upturned feet signify the spiritualization of the lower nature. It is also possible that the inverted figure denotes the loss of the spiritual faculties, as the head is below the level of the body. To attain ones highest potential , therefore, man must reverse, or invert, the order of his life. In the pseudo-Egyptian Tarot the hanged man is suspended between two palm trees and signifies the Sun God who dies perrennially for this world. In alchemy there are three symbolic substances: mercury, sulphur and salt. The interesting thing is that although listed sepereately each of these substances contain within it the other two, salt therefore is threefold, namely salt, sulphur and mercury. The same rule applies to mercury and sulphur. This alchemical trinity is allegorial to the divine trinity of Father Son and Holy Spirit, Mind body and Soul, Life death and resurrection, Man Woman and Child, Knoweldge Wisdom and Understanding etc. Sulphur because of its firey nature is also associated with the Sun. The Sun is of course the great light bearer and life giver.

The 5 pointed star or pentagram which appears on the goats forehead is a symbol for the microcosm, the divine formula of man. It represents one rising out of four, the human soul rising from its lower animal nature. It is the "star of the morning" and represents the five senses of man, the five elements of nature and the five extremeties of the human body. The Pentagram has no relation to Satanism or Black Magic. In fact Black Magic has no true symbols, as it is not a fundamental art. Instead it relies upon the symbols of so called "white magic" and by inverting them creates symbols which signify or illustrate the opposite or reciprocal principles. Which, never the less illustrates a key point which is crucial to understaind Baphomet, the Hermetic principle of correspondence. The Head of Baphomet outlines an inverted pentagram while a normal pentagram rests upon its forehead. Together they represent both sides of the "magical" spectrum and cancel each other out making it neutral.

The wings of Baphomet represent aspiration, ascendence and beauty. They also represent transcendence beyond the physical form and world. The male and female features of Baphomet represent the masuline and femanine energies and principles which exist in all things in the universe and it illustrates the balance and equality bewteen them. The latin word "Solve" means to loosen, break up, untie, release, free, disolve or solve. The latin word "Coagula" means to bind, bunch or tie up, to bring together, in short they are opposites, and thus once again express the universal principle of polarity. Additionally they illustrate the 2 constant principles of existance, the process of building and destroying, life and death, creation and disection. Life..... existance is a constant state of the two, although seemingly different they walk hand in hand, one cannot take place without the other, and thus one cannont exist without the other.

The arm of Baphomet pointing upward represents the hermetic law of correspondence illustrating the statement "as is above" while the arm pointing downward finishes the statement by representing "so is below". Pointing at an ascending and descending moon, one light one dark it illustrates again the duality between light and darkness, good and evil, knowledge and ignorance, day and night, life and death, the eternal cycle. Again, one cannot exist without the other, because without Darkness, how could you define light, and vice versa.

The Caduces is an ancient egyptian symbol often reffered to as the staff of Hermes or more appropriately Tehuti. Contemporarely it is a symbol of the medical field, yet esoterically the two snakes entertwined rising upward around a pole represents the divine fire of man rising up to its pinacle and activating the divine nature within him.

Baphomet sits on a cube which represents the physical world. This cube sits on top of an orb which represents the spiritual world. Both of these sybols are simply a square and a circle which mathematicall is the same thing with a value of 360 degress. Together the cube and sphere represent the complete world both physical and spiritual.

This is the breakdown of Baphomet. Write it down.... study.

You can thank me later.


[edit on 10/23/05 by Khonsu]



Goats asocciated with light and on and on......
What you explained here is thot by the illuminated ones.
I can really see what enlitement has to do with you guys.
It's like allmost turning u'r self in but sayng "it's the right way"
Never the less dont forget god the real creator of the universe.

Has i told you i will find a pic of the goat seating in a satanic church.
I guess satanists arent bad in u'r opinion" maybe cause you sustain their cause"
I guess people who practice the ocult are good after all.
the satanist religion has the same opinion has you about the goat they will simply say the same."Amesing" ( i wached a documentary on that matter)


call me old fasion i do belive in a supreme force but i just dont picture it like you.

I do belive in the laws of the universe and the mecanism of the universe
and that all this was created by a supreem force but not the one under the sun.
Triky triky triky but not for me has i think they are two diffrent things.
You mention about the sun and how the sun represents the goat and how magic that is.
You must know that the word illuminati it's self has to do with that mater
It has to do with the eye and especialy with the sun cause they recive great knolege from it they pray to it and they get illuminated.
The eye of the sun is grate cause you get illuminated i can see the reseblence "illuminati"iluminated
I am not sayng that the goat does not poses power i'm just sayng it's a negative thing.


Abot the goat it is like you say but it does not mean that it's simply a positive force.

And you must understand that lucifer has great knolege but does not mean he is good in any way.



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 07:08 AM
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For the people who claim it is or is not a cult:

Definitions of cult on the Web:

* adherents of an exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices
* fad: an interest followed with exaggerated zeal; "he always follows the latest fads"; "it was all the rage that season"
* a system of religious beliefs and rituals; "devoted to the cultus of the Blessed Virgin"
www.google.com...
Don't get me wrong, I think Catholics are a cult too.


As for masons in general, if they weren’t so damn secretive then there'd be no problems
I asked a friend of mine, a mason, to validate or deny some of the theories about masonry
He assumed I knew a bunch of lies and what not and agreed.
I asked about some things and he said they were false and others somewhat were true, but not quite accurate.
I asked him about baphomet and he seemed genuinely confused.
I asked him about being locked in a closet with a bag over his head as part of the initiation and he was silent then said how he can’t talk about the initiation rites, but that didn’t seem very mason like.
effectively denying

Albeit, he only completed the first few degrees, so it’s possible he doesn’t know what goes on when you finish all 32.
But an interesting note, according to him you can reach the 32 degree in a few weeks to months of honest study because you can skip over degrees or collect a few at a time or something like that.


Another friend of mine's parents are masons and he plans on becoming one as well.


In short, the masons are like a little kid's tree fort club.
You got special rules and what not or you can’t be in the club.
you can’t tell people about the fort, can’t tell people what you do there, can’t give out the secret hand shake etc....
Only difference is that the "forts" are much bigger and there are a bunch of them world wide.

On an ironic note, it’s interesting how the "bad" masons are either poor or rich, but never in between.
The rich ones are corrupt and the poor ones lie about the organization.
Given the common man identifies with poor men more than rich men is it any surprise how gullible the vast majority of people are when it comes to conspiracy?


[edit on 23-10-2005 by mrjones]




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