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Why do some people feel the need to post outright lies about Masons and Masonry?

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posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 03:43 PM
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Originally posted by resistance

Sorry I missed your post. I have not decided who to believe. Let you know when I decide. Why did GW publish things warning against the Freemasons?


What do you think it was that Washington published that "warned" people of Freemasons? He was a proud Mason for his entire life, laid the Masonic cornerstone of the Capitol Building himself, requested that the Bible from his Masonic Lodge be used during his inauguration as president, held written correspondence with Masonic organizations all over the USA until his death, and requested to be buried with Masonic honors.




posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by TxSecret



SALVATION BY WORKS?



Freemasonry teaches,


This, my friend, is where I believe you're being led in the wrong direction. It is true that some Freemasons have taught those things, but is not true that Freemasonry does.

And, out of millions of members and thousands of Masonic authors, we may ask why the critics of Masonry only quote the same few Brothers (Pike, Mackey, Ward, Waite, and a couple more). It's because these few authors are very often disagreed with by all the others. Yet all the others are ignored, because these few can be used to set up a type of "straw man Masonry", by pretending that Masonry teaches what this small handful of authors did.



posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 04:19 PM
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Originally posted by TxSecret

"Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Herneticism and Alchemy "

Is Pike comparing Masonry with religions, -mysteries- , herneticism and Alchemy? I'm sure you guys will start arguing context but I find it VERY interesting to say the least. I didn't think freemasonry was supposed to be anywhere NEAR a religion.

Thoughts?


I'm working on a reply to your previous post, but for my thoughts on this, read here and here.



posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 05:36 PM
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Originally posted by TxSecret
Axeman, I'm not going to ignore your post, but please don't ignore mine either. Let me digest some things that have come to the forefront.
This thread has been fascinating to say the least and honestly? I'm paying close attention to what everyone is saying on both sides of the "fence".
My main concern for myself right now is reconciling freemasonry with Christianity and I'm having a extremely difficult time doing it. Please consider the following disparities or chasms if you will between Christianity and freemasonry and comment on them. This information is from 2 credible sources.. no?


Finally!!! Someone who actually makes a post explaining what their problem with Masonry is without using conspiracy sites!


You have voted TxSecret for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.


OK now let's get down to business...


SALVATION BY WORKS?

Freemasonry teaches,

"...that everything which man is put to do, if rightly and faithfully done, naturally helps to work out his salvation; that if he obeys the genuine principles of his calling, he will be a good man:..." (Pike, p. 211 ).

Christianity teaches,

"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast." (Ephesians 2: 8,9. See also Romans 11:6).


Let's look at that first quote. I'll post it again, this time in context and with my own emphasis, and we'll go from there.


Masonry teaches its Initiates that the pursuits and occupations of this life, its activity, care, and ingenuity, the predestined developments of the nature given us by God, tend to promote His great design, in making the world; and are not at war with the great purpose of life. It teaches that everything is beautiful in its time, in its place, in its appointed office; that everything which man is put to do, if rightly and faithfully done, naturally helps to work out his salvation; that if he obeys the genuine principles of his calling, he will be a good man: and that it is only by neglect and non-performance of the task set for him by Heaven, by wandering into idle dissipation, or by violating their beneficent and lofty spirit, that he becomes a bad man. The appointed action of life is the great training of Providence; and if man yields himself to it, he will need neither churches nor ordinances, except for the expression of his religious homage and gratitude.


What do you think that means? "The great training of Providence."

What Pike is saying to me here is that we are here for a purpose and according to a plan. That seems to fall right in line with Christian Theology. He also says that the plan is of God. Two for two. He goes on to say that we are to rightly and faithfully follow that plan that God has set for us, and that to do so helps us to reach toward Salvation. He doesn’t say it guarantees Salvation. He says that you will be a good man if you do your duty to God, and if you don’t, you won’t plain and simple. Do you believe a man has to go to a church of brick and mortar and worship in order to be saved? No, I think you belive that we will be saved by the Grace of the Master, Jesus the Christ, which I will address in a moment.


SEVERAL WAYS TO GOD?

Freemasonry teaches,

"...these paths appear to branch off in various directions, yet they all reach the same ultimate goal, and that to some men, one path is better and to others, another." (J.S.M. Ward quoted in Freemasonry, The Invisible Cult in our Midst by J. Harris p. 100).

Christianity teaches,

"...I am the Way, and the Truth and the Life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me." (Jesus, quoted in John 14:6. See also John 10, 9; 3:36.)


I don’t have access to that first book, so I cannot read your quote in context, but I’ll work witcha!


TxSecret, I am curious; Have you studied the other religions of the world? Are you aware of the tenets of other Faiths besides your own? Do you understand the concepts that are taught in most of the world’s religions is fundamentally the same? That God created us, and for a purpose, and it is our duty to Him to be faithful and happy to be carrying out His Work? That’s what I gather from my studies, and in this case and context, the quote above is on the money.

Religion is a tool by which men judge themselves. It is a set of guidelines and beliefs, which if followed, allow the follower to live eternally in the presence of Almighty God.

Is a Muslim born into Islam, who never has heard of Jesus except maybe for a mention in the Q’uran that He is a Prophet, condemned to Hell because he does not pursue a relationship with god (or Allah) through Jesus? If he is an upright, just, moral man and loves his God and obeys the laws of his Morality and Faith, is he still forsaken?

Different paths are better to some than others because they speak to that person in the bottom of his heart. The Message is by and large the same. Love your neighbor as you love yourself, and obey the Moral Law set down by Him for us to adhere to. I mean that pretty much sums it up, if you step back and look at it through the wide-view lens. So in this light, all religions do point in the same direction, but each differently in its own right.

To me, when Jesus said, “no one comes to My Father but through Me,” You have to look deeper to find out what that really means. How do you get to the Father through Him? Look at the life of Jesus; look at the way he lived. He loved everyone, regardless of race, creed, color or religion. He lived a virtuous life. He taught the people the Truth, when knowing, not to mention teaching, the Truth could get you killed. He went out of His way to help people in need. He made the ULTIMATE sacrifice, so that we may learn from His example. So many Christians nowadays believe that all they have to do is say “Jesus save me,” and they are good to go, and can do whatever it is that they want to do, immoral things that are just wrong, and still expect to gain admission to the Kingdom. Now, that is not to say that they won’t be redeemed (I think we all will eventually), but doesn’t it make sense that the ones who are at His right hand will be the faithful that followed the example set by Christ in their daily lives; the ones who actually lived the way He taught we should live? Well, guess what... Almost all religions teach that Message in some way or another, so to me this says two things: 1) That Faith without works is in vain; sure, you might get to Heaven, but to be at the right hand of God, you must have been faithful and virtuous, and 2) That those who are faithful to God and follow the teachings of Jesus, even in ignorance of Him, will be welcomed into the Kingdom with open arms, as Brothers.


IS JESUS ONLY ONE OF MANY?

Freemasonry teaches,

"It reverences all the great reformers. It sees in Moses, the lawgiver of the Jews, in Confucius and Zoroaster, in Jesus of Nazareth, and in the Arabian Iconoclast, Great Teachers of Morality, and Eminent Reformers, if no more: and allows every brother of the order to assign to each such higher and even Divine Character as his Creed and Truth require." (Pike, p. 525).

Christianity teaches,

"And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved". (Acts 4:12; See also 1 Cor. 8:6).


Again, quote in context, my own emphasis:


To every Mason, the Infinite Justice and Benevolence of God give ample assurance that Evil will ultimately be dethroned, and the Good, the True, and the Beautiful reign triumphant and eternal. It teaches, as it feels and knows, that Evil, and Pain, and Sorrow exist as part of a wise and beneficent plan, all the parts of which work together under God's eye to a result which shall be perfection. Whether the existence of evil is rightly explained in this creed or in that, by Typhon the Great Serpent, by Ahriman and his Armies of Wicked Spirits, by the Giants and Titans that war against Heaven, by the two co-existent Principles of Good and Evil, by Satan's temptation and the fall of Man, by Lok and the Serpent Fenris, it is beyond the domain of Masonry to decide, nor does it need to inquire. Nor is it within its Province to determine how the ultimate triumph of Light and Truth and Good, over Darkness and Error and Evil, is to be achieved; nor whether the Redeemer, looked and longed for by all nations, hath appeared in Judea, or is yet to come.
It reverences all the great reformers. It sees in Moses, the Lawgiver of the Jews, in Confucius and Zoroaster, in Jesus of Nazareth, and in the Arabian Iconoclast, Great Teachers of Morality, and Eminent Reformers, if no more: and allows every brother of the Order to assign to each such higher and even Divine Character as his Creed and Truth require.
Thus Masonry disbelieves no truth, and teaches unbelief in no creed, except so far as such creed may lower its lofty estimate of the Deity, degrade Him to the level of the passions of humanity, deny the high destiny of man, impugn the goodness and benevolence of the Supreme God, strike at those great columns of Masonry, Faith, Hope, and Charity, or inculcate immorality, and disregard of the active duties of the Order.


So here Pike tells us that the general idea is that God is all-powerful, that He has a Plan that results in perfection

It is not the place of a fraternity to tell its members what they should believe or not believe. That is for them to decide. The point of the requirement of belief in a Supreme Creator is because the lessons of Masonry are taught with that idea in the background. Not that Masonry teaches any doctrine in particular, but the ideas and teachings would be incompatible with someone who did not believe that his god is the Almighty Creator of the Heavens and the Earth.

For Christians, there is no other name under Heaven by which they can be saved, and that is fine. But again, my interpretation of this is that He is the example which we are to follow. I refuse to believe that God would condemn a man of another faith that was a good moral man on account of a difference in the method by which he was taught morality.


ARE BLOODY OATHS ACCEPTABLE?

Freemasonry teaches: First Degree - Throat cut across, tongue torn out etc. as part of the the sworn. Third Degree - Body severed in twain, bowels taken out etc. as part of the oath sworn. (Harris pp. 50,51).Christianity teaches,

"But I say to you, make no oath at all,...But let your statement be, "yes, yes" or "No, no"; and anything beyond these is of evil." (Matthew 5:34-37; see also James 5:12).


All I will say here is that the Obligations are symbolic. Additionally, there are many places in the Bible where oaths are taken; Masonic Light has posted a few examples recently, though I can’t rightly remember which thread. It seems like it might have been one of Eudaimonia’s.


HOW IS THE BIBLE VIEWED?

Freemasonry teaches,

"The Bible is used among Masons as the symbol of the will of God, however it may be expressed, and therefore, whatever to any people expresses that will may be used as a substitute for the Bible in a Masonic Lodge." (Albert Mackey quoted by Harris p. 47).

Therefore any "Holy" book may be on the Masonic altar!

Christianity teaches,

"All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness ; that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work." (2 Tim. 3:16; see also Proverbs 30:5,6, Hebrews 4:12).


ALL scripture, your verse says. Are you telling me that because a book has a different author writing about the same principles that yours is better, or that the other is false? The teachings speak for themselves, and to assume that the KJV of the Bible is the only Divinely inspired work given to Man is bordering on ridiculous. There is something to be learned from everything.


SHOULD SECRETS BE KEPT

BY CHRISTIANS?

Freemasonry teaches,

"Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and Alchemy conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be mislead; to conceal the Truth, which it calls Light from them, and to draw them away from it." (Pike, p. 104,105.)

Christianity teaches,

"Jesus answered him, "I have spoken openly to the world; I always taught in synagogues, and in the temple where all the Jews come together; and I spoke nothing in secret. Why do you question Me? Question those who have heard what I spoke to them; behold, these know what I said." (John 18:20; see also Matt. 10:27, Luke 12:3, Ephesians 5:11-13).


Right back atcha:


Matthew 13:10 The disciples came to him and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?" 11He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 13This is why I speak to them in parables: "Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. 14In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: " 'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. 15For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them. 16But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.


Hmmmmm...



WHERE IS TRUE LIGHT FOUND?

Freemasonry teaches,

Masonry is a search after Light. That search leads us directly back, as you see, to the Kabalah." (Pike p. 741).

However, the Kabalah teachings (Jewish occult mysticism) is condemned by the Bible.

Christianity teaches,

"...Jesus spoke to them saying, "I am the light of the world; he who follows Me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life." (John 8:12. See also John 1:4,5, and Matt. 5:14-16).


OK well let’s see here... First of all, context again:


Masonry is a search after Light. That search leads us directly back, as you see, to the Kabalah. In that ancient and little understood medley of absurdity and philosophy, the Initiate will find the source of many doctrines; and may in time come to understand the Hermetic philosophers, the Alchemists, all the Anti-papal Thinkers of the Middle Ages, and Emanuel Swedenborg.


So here he is telling us that to go back to the roots of the different doctrines is to have a better understanding of many faiths, as the Qabalah is indeed the foundations of quite a few. “Light” in the Masonic sense can be described as “Knowledge,” or, perhaps more accurately, “Understanding.” Therefore, Masonry is a search for understanding. Learning and grasping the concepts of the early religions and beliefs can be very valuable when viewed in context and with the intention of better understanding your own faith. You keep trying to implicate that Masonry teaches Masons to follow certain doctrines. It doesn’t. But it does encourage understanding, and one cannot understand without study. Do you believe that studying other religions for the purpose of better understanding the faith and the people who practice it is a sin or somehow against the Will of God?

Now to Scripture:

Eph 5:8-14a (Phi) Once you were "darkness", but now as Christians you are "light". Live then as children of the light. The light produces in men all that is good and right and true. Let your lives be living proofs of the things which please God. Steer clear of the fruitless activities of darkness; let your lives expose their futility. (You know the sort of things I mean; to detail their secret doings is too shameful to mention.) For light is capable of showing everything for what it really is. It is even possible for light to turn the thing it shines upon into light also.


Let me interject here and say that by “Christians” I take that to mean “Followers of Christ.” That is to say, people who abide by his teachings and follow His example. Take it or leave it, that’s how I feel about it.


2 Sam 22:29 (NIV) You are my lamp, O Lord; the Lord turns my darkness into light.

Ps 27:1 (NIV) The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? The Lord is the stronghold of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?

Mat 5:14-15 (Phi) "You are the world's light; it is impossible to hide a town built on top of a hill. Men do not light a lamp and put it under a bucket. They put it on a lampstand, and it gives light for everybody in the house."

Pr 4:18-19 (NIV) The path of the righteous is like the first gleam of dawn, shining ever brighter till the full light of day. But the way of the wicked is like deep darkness; they do not know what makes them stumble.

John 8:12b (Jer) "I am the light of the world; anyone who follows me will not be walking in the dark; he will have the light of life."

John 1:5 (Phi) The light still shines in the darkness, and the darkness has never put it out.

Dan 12:3 (NIV) Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever.


I hope this post is satisfactory; I’ve tried to be thorough and honest, and give you some insight as to where I’m coming from.

[edit on 10/21/05 by The Axeman]



posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 06:03 PM
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Masonic Light -- Ed Decker, former 30-year Mormon and expert on Freemasonry, has a website called Saints Alive. He published this information on George Washington taken from a 19th century tract "Washington, Lincoln and Their C patriots," published by the National Christian Association, Chicago, Ill. Tract printed at the turn of Century, circa 1900.



George Washington, in his Farewell Address, made it perfectly clear that he was opposed to Freemasonry and all it stood for:

“All obstructions to the execution of the laws, all combinations and associations, under whatever plausible character, with the real design to direct, control, counteract, or awe the regular deliberation and action of the constituted authorities, are destructive of this fundamental principle, and of fatal tendency. They serve to organize faction, to give it an artificial and extraordinary force; to put, in the place of the delegated will of the nation the will of a party, often a small but artful and enterprising minority of the community; and, according to the alternate triumphs of different parties, to make the public administration the mirror of the ill-concerted and incongruous projects of faction, rather than the organ of consistent and wholesome plans digested by common counsels and modified by mutual interests.

"However combinations or associations of the above description may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely, in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion.”

"Further, Governor Ritner, in response to a communication from the Legislature of Pennsylvania, prepared a vindication of President Washington from the stigma of adherence to secret societies, in which he proved from authentic documents:

1. That in 1768 Washington had ceased regular attendance in the Lodge
2. That in 1798, shortly before his death, his opinions were the same as thirty years before, when he was thirty-six years old.
3. That he was never “grand Master” or “Master of any particular lodge.
4. That in 1781, as appears by the record of King David Lodge, Newport, Rhode Island, it was agreeable to Washington to be addressed as a private Mason.
5. That all the letters said to be written by Washington to lodges are spurious.

"Washington was initiated into Masonry when a young man, but in his mature years it was distasteful to him to be addressed as a Mason, and in reply to a letter from Dr. Snyder, declared that he had not been in a lodge of Masons but once in or twice in thirty years. He was to all intents and purposes a seceding Mason.

"Aaron Burr and Benedict Arnold were good Masons, lived and died as such and so were nearly all the Southern generals of the War of the Rebellion, but to connect General Washington’s name with Freemasonry now is an insult to his memory and every honest and intelligent Mason knows it."



I know this is just a tract published in the 1900s but I still believe it. I went to Mt. Vernon and learned there that the Masons were there in force at Washington's funeral to bear his body, but that Martha Washington would have none of it, and would not even attend.

So I don't know what the deal is with the beloved Father of our Country George Washington. I do know that Freemasons lie, they believe once you join you are never to be able to leave, and they use force and deceit to get their way. So I tend to believe the tract that the correspondence of Washington regarding his supposed Freemasonry is bogus. That's my opinion and I'm entitled to it, and if somebody wants to disagree that's their right. But for the record, that's my opinion.


www.saintsalive.com...





[edit on 21-10-2005 by resistance]



posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by resistance
Ed Decker, former 30-year Mormon and expert on Freemasonry, has a website called Saints Alive.


A couple of things, what makes him an expert on Masonry? Because you say so?

BTW, links to your material carry more weight than you just saying something.



posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 06:50 PM
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For years the only thing I knew about Freemasons was what hollywood protrayed and what others whispered about...the same ol secret conspiring cabal of apron wearing gangsters. It's reflected in tv shows, movies, etc.

The funny thing is, Freemasonry cannot fit into any sort of New World Order scheme; because quite simply the tenets and giving charitable nature goes against what the Globalists do. I believe th eUS government helped allow or orchestrate 9/11, and it's clear Masons donated a lot of charity to the 9/11 fund.

I think the anti Mason crowd is living in an 1830's time warp. Aside from an accidental shooting, a 1820's murder, and an Italian bank scandal the anti Mason crowd really doesn't have much.

The FreeMasons are way too known, too in the open, and too rich in history to be exhibiting signs of anything to backup what anti Mason folks say.
I have done exhaustive research on Freemasonry and see a search for self improvement and enlightenment that comes from a very unique time period.

And for those that speak of esoteric elements, that would be all orders, all religious groups, sects, etc.

So I guess I would be one of those peopel that believes elements of the Illuminati and a new world order does exist, but it has nothing to do with Freemasonry. If anything, Freemason has been used here and their for hijacked purposes.



posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by resistance
“All obstructions to the execution of the laws, all combinations and associations, under whatever plausible character, with the real design to direct, control, counteract, or awe the regular deliberation and action of the constituted authorities, are destructive of this fundamental principle, and of fatal tendency. They serve to organize faction, to give it an artificial and extraordinary force; to put, in the place of the delegated will of the nation the will of a party, often a small but artful and enterprising minority of the community; and, according to the alternate triumphs of different parties, to make the public administration the mirror of the ill-concerted and incongruous projects of faction, rather than the organ of consistent and wholesome plans digested by common counsels and modified by mutual interests.

"However combinations or associations of the above description may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely, in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion.”

"Further, Governor Ritner, in response to a communication from the Legislature of Pennsylvania, prepared a vindication of President Washington from the stigma of adherence to secret societies, in which he proved from authentic documents:

1. That in 1768 Washington had ceased regular attendance in the Lodge
2. That in 1798, shortly before his death, his opinions were the same as thirty years before, when he was thirty-six years old.
3. That he was never “grand Master” or “Master of any particular lodge.
4. That in 1781, as appears by the record of King David Lodge, Newport, Rhode Island, it was agreeable to Washington to be addressed as a private Mason.
5. That all the letters said to be written by Washington to lodges are spurious.

"Washington was initiated into Masonry when a young man, but in his mature years it was distasteful to him to be addressed as a Mason, and in reply to a letter from Dr. Snyder, declared that he had not been in a lodge of Masons but once in or twice in thirty years. He was to all intents and purposes a seceding Mason.

"Aaron Burr and Benedict Arnold were good Masons, lived and died as such and so were nearly all the Southern generals of the War of the Rebellion, but to connect General Washington’s name with Freemasonry now is an insult to his memory and every honest and intelligent Mason knows it."

Jadams.ds.jpg (5534 bytes)


Plain and simple... You can't do this... It's called plagairism (you even included the image tag for the following article on Adams :shk: ). You have copied and pasted a pre-existing work, and posted it without attributing the author. It's wrong, and it's against the Terms & Conditions Of Use. Quoted material taken from sources must be attributed to the author, placed within [quote] (BB Code uses these brackets of course: [ ] ) tags and a link given. That's just the way it's done.

As for George Washington's farewell address, perhaps a little context (like the preceding two paragraphs), and the speech in it's entirety would clarify things just a bit?


George Washington's Farewell Address 1796
In contemplating the causes, which may disturb our Union, it occurs as matter of serious concern, that any ground should have been furnished for characterizing parties by Geographical discriminations, Northern and Southern, Atlantic and Western; whence designing men may endeavour to excite a belief, that there is a real difference of local interests and views. One of the expedients of party to acquire influence, within particular districts, is to misrepresent the opinions and aims of other districts. You cannot shield yourselves too much against the jealousies and heart-burnings, which spring from these misrepresentations; they tend to render alien to each other those, who ought to be bound together by fraternal affection. The inhabitants of our western country have lately had a useful lesson on this head; they have seen, in the negotiation by the Executive, and in the unanimous ratification by the Senate, of the treaty with Spain, and in the universal satisfaction at that event, throughout the United States, a decisive proof how unfounded were the suspicions propagated among them of a policy in the General Government and in the Atlantic States unfriendly to their interests in regard to the mississippi; they have been witnesses to the formation of two treaties, that with Great Britain, and that with Spain, which secure to them every thing they could desire, in respect to our foreign relations, towards confirming their prosperity. Will it not be their wisdom to rely for the preservation of these advantages on the union by which they were procured? Will they not henceforth be deaf to those advisers, if such there are, who would sever them from their brethren, and connect them with aliens?

To the efficacy and permanency of your Union, a Government for the whole is indispensable. No alliances, however strict, between the parts can be an adequate substitute; they must inevitably experience the infractions and interruptions, which all alliances in all times have experienced. Sensible of this momentous truth, you have improved upon your first essay, by the adoption of a Constitution of Government better calculated than your former for an intimate Union, and for the efficacious management of your common concerns. This Government, the offspring of our own choice, uninfluenced and unawed, adopted upon full investigation and mature deliberation, completely free in its principles, in the distribution of its powers, uniting security with energy, and containing within itself a provision for its own amendment, has a just claim to your confidence and your support. Respect for its authority, compliance with its laws, acquiescence in its measures, are duties enjoined by the fundamental maxims of true Liberty. The basis of our political systems is the right of the people to make and to alter their Constitutions of Government. But the Constitution which at any time exists, till changed by an explicit and authentic act of the whole people, is sacredly obligatory upon all. The very idea of the power and the right of the people to establish Government presupposes the duty of every individual to obey the established Government.


The Farewell Address of
President George Washington


First Inaugural Address of
President George Washington


Second Inaugural Address of
President George Washington


See how easy that was?

As to George Washington's participation in Freemasonry, how do you explain this?

Look carefully at 1794... How could William Wiiliams have done this:



If Washington had disavowed Freemasonry?

Washington as a Virginia Past Master, with Masonic Regalia and Jewels

Time to Deny Ignorance...

Masonic Monkeys, not just for good works anymore...



posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 07:07 PM
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by Mirthful Me:
Plain and simple... You can't do this... It's called plagairism (you even included the image tag for the following article on Adams :shk: ). You have copied and pasted a pre-existing work, and posted it without attributing the author. It's wrong, and it's against the Terms & Conditions Of Use. Quoted material taken from sources must be attributed to the author, placed within [quote] (BB Code uses these brackets of course: [ ] ) tags and a link given. That's just the way it's done.


Actually, I did. I first put up the link back a few posts ago and nobody clicked on it, just hounded me for proof of what I said. So I put up the quote, said where it came from, the website, the name of the tract, the date it was printed, all the information that was put up on the website telling where the information came from. Then after I put it up, I went on to say further that even though this information was "only" from a tract put out in 1900 that I still agreed with it, that that was my opinion, take it or leave it.

The stuff you've put up is very convincing, very good proofs, and I've looked at all of it. You are a wonderful poster, knowing just how to do everything perfectly. I'm really impressed.

I'm also entitled to my opinion. I think this material I've put up is worth noting, that all may not be quite as it seems with George Washington and the Masons. Knowing what I know about the Masons, I will continue to think there were some shenanagans here, and that George Washington was not in fact an enthusiastic supporter of the Masons -- maybe railroaded might be closer to the truth? At the least it's an opinion worth considering.

What do you want, only people with one opinion on this forum? Seems to me we have a forum-ful of people here to defend the Freemason opinion, and they don't need a moderator to jump in and rescue them from one person, just because I forget to put

and
before and after a short piece I put up.

So I don't see where I plagiarized anything. Seems to me the only thing I am guilty of is not putting the thing in a nice quote box. It was unintentional. So calm down.






[edit on 21-10-2005 by resistance]



posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 08:54 PM
link   

Originally posted by resistance
Actually, I did. I first put up the link back a few posts ago and nobody clicked on it


I clicked it.. i wasnt impressed.. it was a big pile of fluff and propganda, and as ML pointed out.. everything that Washington put ink to is archived as national treasures, so the supposed letters and other documents were ether written in secret, then hidden from the public untill (God be praised) they fell in the hands of this fine and fair gentlemen who posted them so everyone would know how much Washington had come to disagree with masonry... Oooor, they are a big pack of lies

On a side note, anyone know the poem on Washingtons inaugural bible?

Fame Stretched her wings and with her trumpets bllew
Great Washington is near, What praise is due?
"What title shall he have?" She paused and said
Not one- His name alone strikes every title dead.


No matter what could be said about masonry.. or anything else in all of creation.. no truer words have ever been spoken then these words about the great general

[edit on 21-10-2005 by Becon of Light]



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 10:53 AM
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Heheh. Can't help but notice how completely Resistance has ignored me in this thread... I expected nothing less.


Thanks for your reply TxSecret, but I am indeed interested in what you have to say to my most recent post too.



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 12:48 PM
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Edit: blatent violation of #1 of the T&C.

[edit on 22-10-2005 by intrepid]

Edit for:

Rule #1 is as follows:

1.) You will not post any material that is knowingly false, misleading, or inaccurate.

What did I post that was knowingly false, misleading., or inaccurate? I posted information from a reputable source and then added my thoughts. What was false, misleading or inaccurate?

[edit on 22-10-2005 by XanaX]



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 12:59 PM
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I changed my mind.

[edit on 22-10-2005 by intrepid]



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 01:01 PM
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Axeman....I notice you quote Pike in your signature line...the same Pike that did this:



1840 Albert Pike builds a mansion in Arkansas where he designs plans
for three world wars and three revolutions.


Truly a great man! Plotting world wars and revolutions. A true humanitarian. I could find more info on Pike, but why bother. He was a scumbag and basically a predecessor to Hitler.

quote from:
beyond-the-illusion.com...



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 01:07 PM
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I am so sick of hering about the "Great Conspirisies," concerning blood lines. This goes for those related to the "evil masons" and the Iluminati.

Even if there were some age old conspiricy to rule the World through Satanic blood lines, none of the original orchestrators are alive to enjoy it. There all dead so get off this futile subject.



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 01:13 PM
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Let me save you guys some reading. There's only 4 references to Pike here. The first was his birth, the other three are:

1840 Albert Pike builds a mansion in Arkansas where he designs plans
for three world wars and three revolutions. Pike becomes Mazzini's
superior.

1871 Albert Pike writes "Morals and Dogma". Pike also writes a letter
on Aug 15, 1871 (until recently on display in the British museum) to
Mazzini detailing the Luciferian plan for world conquest, outlining
plans for three world wars, and detailing the destruction of both
Christianity and athiesm.

1889 Albert Pike issues a theological dogma to the 23 Supreme
Councils of the world stating that "Lucifer and Adonay are both God".

That's all on Pike in that link. I'll take money in lieu of thanks.



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 01:19 PM
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Edit to say: Never mind....answer received loud and clear!


[edit on 22-10-2005 by XanaX]



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by XanaX
Since I got no answer to my U2U...I post this question:

Rule #1 is as follows:

1.) You will not post any material that is knowingly false, misleading, or inaccurate.

What did I post that was knowingly false, misleading., or inaccurate? I posted information from a reputable source and then added my thoughts. What was false, misleading or inaccurate?


Mate, it was a lenghty u2u, took time to write. So I suggest you read it, take it to heart and stop this crap on the board.



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 01:31 PM
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i think you better find that other info Xanax, all you showed was a text file, one that you yourself could have typed.. if you plan on being taken seriously.. you need to show FACTS, not propaganda. you havent shown anything here.

while i have heard about this rumor that pike planned the world wars, it should be noted that hitler was a very VERY strong opponent to masonry, and under his leadership the nazis killed as many masons during WWII as they did gypsies and homosexuals, as did his lil buddy musolini, if you remember, Musolini was a facist, who belived in absolute control of the masses... if the masons were really this evil order that you claim it is.. wouldnt he have used it to further his goals? instead he slaughtered them by the thousands.

whats more.. if Pike had layed out all these plans.. he wouldnt have let anyone outside the order find out about it.. Pike was a genius, he could read and write 16 languages, he had been a civil war general and a lawyer, IF he wrote all of these plans for the world wars.. no one outside the order would have ever seen these documents, such things would never have been written in any language other then the royal arch cipher.. it would be far to important to risk writting in english or any other language of the outside world.

so i am inclined to think that unless you have carbon dated papers that can be verified as being in his handwritting.. you got nothing



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 01:35 PM
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Mate, it was a lenghty u2u, took time to write. So I suggest you read it, take it to heart and stop this crap on the board.


Stop this crap? Expressing my opinion is crap? I thought that was what this forum was for? I think you can let me know your opinion regarding how I broke rule #1 without threatening me. I understand what you believe I did and it won't happen again.....but in the future, maybe treat other adults like adults...not like children!....then maybe they will show you the respect you want. Respect breeds respect!

[edit on 22-10-2005 by XanaX]



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