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Why do some people feel the need to post outright lies about Masons and Masonry?

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posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 09:05 AM
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Khonsu -- You said: Us Masons don't worship Baphomet or any other "god" for that matter as it is not a religious body or institution. Admittance requires the belief in a god or supreme being, however that supreme being is never specified nor required to be disclosed. Thus we all do believe in a "God" and I will leave it at that.


The ones at the upper levels know full well who they worship. And anybody who professes to believe in God, professes Christianity, will never GET to the upper levels.

And whoever turned me in for a one-liner above, thanks. You guys really know how to play hard ball, don't you?




posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 09:19 AM
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Well, it occurs to me that most people (especially the ones who are at ATS) fear that knowledge kept from them usually involves some plot/conspiracy.
Since Masons are a very old organization, it is linked not only to new conspiracies, but old ones too.
I am not a member, and therefore have no direct knowledge of the group.
I have a friend who is a mason and his is his description of what they are all about.

It is an organization which donates $ to needy organizations. It is a place where men can meet and be men, in fun and fellowship. Think about family gatherings like Christmas and such, most of the guys end up in a group talking and being bugged from the ladies present that they are not being social able.



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 09:45 AM
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Originally posted by resistance
The ones at the upper levels know full well who they worship. And anybody who professes to believe in God, professes Christianity, will never GET to the upper levels.

Oh lord, are you still on this? You have enough ATS points to show that you must have read a bit about stuff here, so you should know all of the following. I'll restate it anyway, though.

1) There are no 'levels' in masonry past the third degree of master mason. There are degrees of the Scottish Rite which are numbered, from 4-32, with an honourary 33d degree. However, anyone who chooses to join the Scottish Rite can receive the 32d degree in little time. In addition, the highest degrees in the York Rite (they're not numbered like the Scottish Rite) not only accept Christians, but require that its members accept Christianity.

2) There are plenty of 32d degree masons on this board who can assure you that they do not worship Baphomet. But, of course, they'd all lie anyway, those evil masons, so I guess that's a moot point.

3) Baphomet is, in fact, made up.



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by Lexicon
3) Baphomet is, in fact, made up.


Well, yes and no...

I made a post about it here, and as you will see by reading the description, it is exactly as Khonsu said.

All it takes is a little study (not directed at you, Lexicon).



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 07:33 PM
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Axeman -- Your quote by Pike in your signature:

The laws of God are not obligatory on us because they are the enactments of His POWER, or the expression of His WILL; but because they express His infinite WISDOM. They are not right because they are His laws, but His laws because they are right. From the equilibrium of infinite wisdom and infiniteforce, results perfect harmony, in physics and in the moral universe.


It occurs to me that Mr. Pike is not describing Jehovah God here but Lucifer.

Lucifer is concerned with power, control, and knowledge or cunningl.

God is concerned with love, freedom and holiness.

So if you substituted the word holiness for wisdom and infinite love for infinite force then you would have the Christian God.

Satan is the one who is looking to know it all and to control everything, force people to bow their knee to him and serve him. Satan is a god of hate, destruction and force. He's crafty and cunning but he's a liar and the father of all lies. He comes only to lie, kill and deceive. Satan offers money, wealth and fame to his devotees, but it comes with a heavy price.

You guys need to quit the Masons and get into church.



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 08:28 PM
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Originally posted by resistance

*snip*

It occurs to me that Mr. Pike is not describing Jehovah God here but Lucifer.


He's describing Venus?!? *shrug*



Lucifer is concerned with power, control, and knowledge or cunningl.


Who would've thunk it?!? Venus, The Morning Star, Lucifer being concerned with power, control and knowledge.....

I really think you need to re-read the quote and follow the rules of punctuation this time.....



God is concerned with love, freedom and holiness.


Yep, amongst other things.....but please enlighten me God being concerned with "freedom".....Seems to me that the "Big 10" kinda infringe on what some would call freedom...ie telling what you can't do.



*snip some more*
Satan is the one who is looking to know it all and to control everything, force people to bow their knee to him and serve him. Satan is a god of hate, destruction and force. He's crafty and cunning but he's a liar and the father of all lies. He comes only to lie, kill and deceive. Satan offers money, wealth and fame to his devotees, but it comes with a heavy price.


What!?!?!? Satan a god?!?!? I as a Christian would never refer to satan as a god....There is only one God and satan certainly isn't it....



You guys need to quit the Masons and get into church.


Hrmm I've not seen any Masons refering to satan as a god......think about it...

Ok in keeping with the topic of this thread "Why do some people feel the need to post outright lies about Masons and Masonry?"

I ask you resistance....why do you feel the need to post outright lies about Masons and Masonry?

Many of the things you have posted have been hashed out many many times, and you have yet to bring one shred of evidence or proof to the table...just make baseless accusations....Is it to get more points so you can get the Conspriacy Decoder Ring in the ATS Store?!?

Remember....with out proof you might be "bearing false witness" And correct me if I'm wrong.....but isn't that one of the "Big 10"?


Edit: Spelling (and I'm sure I didn't get them all)

[edit on 18-10-2005 by Golfie]



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 09:11 PM
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Originally posted by resistance
Axeman -- Your quote by Pike in your signature:

The laws of God are not obligatory on us because they are the enactments of His POWER, or the expression of His WILL; but because they express His infinite WISDOM. They are not right because they are His laws, but His laws because they are right. From the equilibrium of infinite wisdom and infiniteforce, results perfect harmony, in physics and in the moral universe.


It occurs to me that Mr. Pike is not describing Jehovah God here but Lucifer.

Lucifer is concerned with power, control, and knowledge or cunningl.

God is concerned with love, freedom and holiness.

So if you substituted the word holiness for wisdom and infinite love for infinite force then you would have the Christian God.

Satan is the one who is looking to know it all and to control everything, force people to bow their knee to him and serve him. Satan is a god of hate, destruction and force. He's crafty and cunning but he's a liar and the father of all lies. He comes only to lie, kill and deceive. Satan offers money, wealth and fame to his devotees, but it comes with a heavy price.

You guys need to quit the Masons and get into church.


God isnt conserned with power because God IS power..

you say it is lucifer that is concerned with power.. and control, and knowlege, and cunning.. where in your quote of Axeman's sig does the words control, or cunning apprear?

Nothing.... NOTHING in Axe's signature says anyting about cunning, or control.. or even knowlege..

but it does talk about Wisdom, equilibrem, and harmony.. do these things sound like the work of satan?

and can we please get off this thing of calling the biblical satan lucifer? if you knew half as much as you claim to you would know that "lucifer" is a latin construct with no hebrew equivilant, it is the product of poor translation, and anyone who has any intent on making a strong debate of the bible and the devil should avoid the term.. thats like telling jews that they should worship jesus.. when any jew can tell you that there was no one named jesus.. but there was a fella named Yeshua, who preached the word of God and was put to the cross by the pharisees.

resistance, you have twisted words to suit your purposes.. you have stated things that are clearly not true.. wether or not this was your intent i can not and will not speculate on, but if you intend to be taken seriously on these forums, you need to get your game together.. cause right now, all you are doing is making yourself look like ether a fool, or a propagandist.. nether of which is appreciated or respected here on ATS.

[edit on 18-10-2005 by Becon of Light]



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 09:25 PM
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Originally posted by resistance

So if you substituted the word holiness for wisdom and infinite love for infinite force then you would have the Christian God.



Are you suggesting that God is not full of wisdom? or that he is not capable of infinite force? or maybe your suggesting that the most holy and perfect of beings is incapable of both infinite force and infinite love?

God is all things.. Force... Form.. and Spirit, Wisdom.. strength.. Love

you say that "Lucifer" is conserned with knowlege, and that suggests that you think that God isnt... God is equally conserned with knowlege.. but where as satan is conserned with knowlege for the power it brings.. God is conserned with knowlege for the wisdom it brings



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 09:33 PM
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Originally posted by resistance

The ones at the upper levels know full well who they worship. And anybody who professes to believe in God, professes Christianity, will never GET to the upper levels.



Here we go again with this "upper level" non sense. It's always funny to me how those on the outside of Freemasonry always claim to know so much more than those on the inside. Upper level this and upper level that, its rediculous! The very fact that you and many like you are non initiates, have never stepped foot in a lodge, have never spoken at length with 32nd and 33rd degree Freemasons, Grand Commanders, Grand High Priests, Grand Masters, Worshipfull Masters etc. regarding the craft, and the teachings of the craft, but yet claim to know so much about the inner workings and supposed secrets and alterior motives of those in the "upper levels" is absolutely rediculous and insulting to not only a highly educated and well studied Master Mason such as myself but one who has been an initate of many orders my entire life and whos family has has many 32nd degree Masons in its bloodline. The greatest truths and teachings of Freemasonry are found within the original craft degrees, any Mason will tell you this.

As for your perposterous claims I challenge you and the moderators: Either submit proof to back them up or cease to speak of them. I would hope the moderators would encourage such behavior as they always do.



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 09:41 PM
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Dear Beacon -- God is Almighty. He's all-powerful. He's not all-forceful. He's not out to bully anybody or run them like a robot, despite what the Calvinists may say. God speaks with a still, small voice. Jesus is God and He said it -- I am meek and lowly of heart. God is no bully. God does not possess people.

Satan on the other hand likes to take over, come in and run the show whether you like it or not. Satan only cares about one thing -- himself.

God cares for all. God beckons. He doesn't force.

The Illuminati love their secret knowledge about mind control, how to turn people into zombie slaves, break and splinter the minds of their poor victims into a thousand pieces, divide and conquer, use lies and evil and torture and murder to gain this power. Force these people to be your slaves. Eventually, just like the phyramid on the dollar bill and its capstone with the eye of Horus all will be under the control of one man. We'll be as John Lennon said, All one.

But torturing and murdering innocent little kids to force them to comply -- this is evil, pure evil. Satan may sit on his throne at the top of the heap, but nobody serves him from love. It's fear and as you say "force."



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 09:42 PM
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Secrecy breeds suspicion. I don't like "lies" but what is a "lie"? Often it seems that it comes down to opinions and what book the "proof" is published in and whether "us" or "them" consider that a reputable source, which is like trying to learn about government corruption from government publications OR positive things by a person who keeps his philanthropy a secret.

I think the intrigue and speculation about freemasonry occurs because there ARE the degrees, levels, rites, levels, and observation decks. Where is the definitive word? The local lodge, the grand lodge, the southern or northern territories, is it in France or England, is it in Egypt, is it in private meetings of a group of three or 13 or 33 or in whereabouts unknown?

Prove to someone that the Loch Ness Monster doesn't exist. No one can because every unknown cannot be eliminated, even if all sightings are proven to be false. It could exist without one sighting whatsoever. The lake would have to be drained and even then the possibility exists that the creature could have burroughed underground or disappeared into the night.

If someone said the Pope smokes pot, I'd say (as a Roman Catholic) "Ok. That's not impossible so maybe it's possible." even though I've never read or seen or believe that the he does. I know I'm not reinventing the wheel, but I believe that is an extremely important thing to remember. Among other organizations, I was a Sigma Tau Delta member in college which is a national university English fraternity. If someone said that "On my campus, STD members worship Grimace the McDonalds character and burn copies of all William Shatner books", well maybe they do on that campus. Sometimes for a hypothetical we need to put some of our own experiences and opinions aside. For what reason would the Pope smoke pot? How would he do it? Where would he get it? What would he eat afterward...pizza?

I don't mean to say that this board needs any "liers" or posters of obvious factual misinformation or disinformation, but I've seen a lot of good threads that came out of that kind of thing as well. So, go away most of you liers. But not all of you. We need a few around.

[edit on 18-10-2005 by 2nd Hand Thoughts]



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 09:58 PM
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Originally posted by resistance
Dear Beacon -- God is Almighty. He's all-powerful. He's not all-forceful. He's not out to bully anybody or run them like a robot


Is that your deffinition of force? to be a bully? your certainly not a scientist are you

First off "ALL-forcefull" was never mentioned in my post.. once again you twist words to suit your purpose.. and for that i say THANK YOU.. you have just proved what i have said about you is true

what i said, was infinite force, that being without limit in the ammount of energy that may be applied in a specific manner.. but if you want a proper deffinition.. try this

Main Entry: 1force Pronunciation: 'fOrs, 'fo rsFunction: nounEtymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from (assumed) Vulgar Latin fortia, from Latin fortis strong
1 a (1) : strength or energy exerted or brought to bear : cause of motion or change : active power (2) usually capitalized
b : moral or mental strength

so then, is God not ALL of these things? and if so.. is He not infinite in his capacity for such things?



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 10:20 PM
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Becon -- Strength is not measured in how much one chooses to push others around. God's power and strength are awesome and beyond understanding or comprehension.

A weak person can still force others to do their will through lies, trickery, by threat, extortion, manipulation, blackmail, bribery, all kinds of ways. This is in fact how Satan works, and also how the Illuminati, Skull and Bones, Freemasons, Mafia and KKK get their way in the world -- the persuasive squeeze.


Satan rounds up his followers at the point of a gun. God walks forward and people are drawn to follow Him because of his goodness and mercy. God gave himself for man. Satan only takes what he can steal, and take by lies, death and destruction.

Golfie you said:


Who would've thunk it?!? Venus, The Morning Star, Lucifer being concerned with power, control and knowledge.....


You are using the Illuminist scriptures to give the name of Jesus to Satan. Only the good old King James, which is the real Bible btw, speaks the truth about Satan and calls him by his true name that he had when he was in Heaven before he fell -- Lucifer. The Morning Star is not the name for Satan. That is God's name, the name for Jesus, the bright and Morning Star.

Just because the Illuminati and Masons run the entire world, and we know they do, and were able to get all these evil counterfeit "bibles" to confuse the words meant for Jesus with those of Satan Himself, does not mean that you can trick me with these counterfeits. They are just more lies, brought about by bribery and trickery as Satan was able to twist people's arms to get them to do his bidding (as he usually does.)



Satan is a liar and the father of all lies (says Scripture). God is Truth. Satan is slavery. God is freedom.

[edit on 18-10-2005 by resistance]



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 10:27 PM
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Originally posted by resistance
Becon -- Strength is not measured in how much one chooses to push others around. God's power and strength are awesome and beyond understanding or comprehension.



AGAIN YOU TWIST WORDS!!

when in my posts... ANY OF MY POSTS.. did i say God pushes people around? and if you are making the assumption of my sayiing this from the following deffinition of force (1 a (1) : strength or energy exerted or brought to bear) then again i say you are no sceintist

either your grasp of the english language is beyond horrible.. or you are just the sort of propagandist that i have mentioned before.. and either way.. i am done acknowleging you.. and honestly i dont know why i ever bothered to acknowleged you. everyone here knows you have no clue as to what your talking about

[edit on 18-10-2005 by Becon of Light]

oh oh.. look at that.. i hit ignore and all the ignorance goes away

[edit on 18-10-2005 by Becon of Light]



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 10:38 PM
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I'm not twisting words at all. The word "force" usually means to make someone do something against their will. And Satan has many ways of forcing people -- blackmail, bribery, threats, trickery, diabolical weapons like drugs and hypnosis and sorcery, murderous weapons, all sorts and kinds of things like this. Satan is the master of the good 'ol boys club -- you cover for me and I'll cover for you; don't tell on me and I won't tell on you.

Yep. Satan is very forceful as you and your beloved Grand Master Pike say. Very forceful.



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 10:48 PM
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This dialog has gone way off course and has turned into a deranged religious crazed accusation fest. I motion for this topic to be closed.

NEXT!!!!!!



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 11:34 PM
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Geez.... Long but interesting thread. Got a lot of things I'd like to expound on concerning all this but I'm going to leave you all with a link which pretty much sums up what I think of masonry and any of its "variants" (LONG read but good)

www.bibleprobe.com...

Please read ALL of it before you start trying to disect it.



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 11:36 PM
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Originally posted by Khonsu
This dialog has gone way off course and has turned into a deranged religious crazed accusation fest. I motion for this topic to be closed.

NEXT!!!!!!


Why is your signature so religious if you are so adverse to religion?

To make this more than one line, I will point out that I'm only commenting on things you put in your own signatures -- like Pike's quote that originally started this discussion. Does ATS allow people to have "exclusve" secret topics for "members" only? Maybe you need a secret society posting thread so you can keep people like me off.



Becon you said: "and can we please get off this thing of calling the biblical satan lucifer? if you knew half as much as you claim to you would know that "lucifer" is a latin construct with no hebrew equivilant, it is the product of poor translation, and anyone who has any intent on making a strong debate of the bible and the devil should avoid the term.. thats like telling jews that they should worship jesus.. when any jew can tell you that there was no one named jesus.. but there was a fella named Yeshua, who preached the word of God and was put to the cross by the pharisees."

I want to capture your quote here because I'm going to "tell on you" on the other board , the new one just opened up defending Masons, where you claim you're not a Mason. Boy, you guys like to lie a lot "Becon of Light." (And I think you spelled your name wrong -- it's Beacon not becon.)


[edit on 18-10-2005 by resistance]



posted on Oct, 19 2005 @ 01:05 AM
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Originally posted by TxSecret
Geez.... Long but interesting thread. Got a lot of things I'd like to expound on concerning all this but I'm going to leave you all with a link which pretty much sums up what I think of masonry and any of its "variants" (LONG read but good)

www.bibleprobe.com...

Please read ALL of it before you start trying to disect it.



Ooooohhh Mmmmyyyyy Ggggooddd!! what a bunch of propaganda fluff... all that was, was the same anti-mason retorich collected from the four corners of the internet put on one page.

I'm not even a mason.. but i know well enough that the story of Hiram Abiff has nothing to do with the secret name of God.... and if that page sums up what you think of masonry, you havent done any real reseach yet..

Hiram Abiff was not killed for the loss of the secret name of God, he was murdered by 3 laborers who tried to force him to give up the secrets of the master mason (a builder and stoneworker in this context), so that they could demand better wages

This is stated many times in many many masonic texts, and anyone that has done any real reseach knows this.

Whats more.. as any mason or student of the order could tell you.. the illuminati was a bavarian shindig, and Pike would not be telling them what to do. Pike might have been the big man in america.. but in Europe, he was well respected but by no means the man calling the shots.

and now that i have read the page.. it wreaks of the stench of david icke, and anyone who puts an ounce of faith in his progaganda is more gullible then those supposedly "duped" masons that they claim to be tring to bring back into christiandom



posted on Oct, 19 2005 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by resistance
Axeman -- Your quote by Pike in your signature:

The laws of God are not obligatory on us because they are the enactments of His POWER, or the expression of His WILL; but because they express His infinite WISDOM. They are not right because they are His laws, but His laws because they are right. From the equilibrium of infinite wisdom and infinite force, results perfect harmony, in physics and in the moral universe.


...

You guys need to quit the Masons and get into church.

It occurs to me that Mr. Pike is not describing Jehovah God here but Lucifer.


Ummmm... No.


from: Morals and Dogma, pp. 224-225

The Mason regards God as a Moral Governor, as well as an Original Creator; as a God at hand, and not merely one afar off in the distance of infinite space, and in the remoteness of Past or Future Eternity. He conceives of Him as taking a watchful and presiding interest in the affairs of the world, and as influencing the hearts and actions of men.

To him, God is the great Source of the World of Life and Matter; and man, with his wonderful corporeal and mental frame, His direct work. He believes that God has made men with different intellectual capacities; and enabled some, by superior intellectual power, to see and originate truths which are hidden from the mass of men. He believes that when it is His will that mankind should make some great step forward, or achieve some pregnant discovery, He calls into being some intellect of more than ordinary magnitude and power, to give birth to new ideas, and grander conceptions of the Truths vital to Humanity.

We hold that God has so ordered matters in this beautiful and harmonious, but mysteriously-governed Universe, that one great mind after another will arise, from time to time, as such are needed, to reveal to men the truths that are wanted, and the amount of truth than can be borne. He so arranges, that nature and the course of events shall send men into the world, endowed with that higher mental and moral organization, in which grand truths, and sublime gleams of spiritual light will spontaneously and inevitably arise. These speak to men by inspiration.


(Bear in mind that not every Mason agrees with another's personification of God.)

The belief in a Supreme Being can be whomever the man worships and has always worshipped. All faiths more or less see God in this way, so it becomes unnecessary to restrict membership to any certain one, and the decision can be left up to the brother himself.

I think that you are Christian, judging by your attitude, and that's fine and good. So, tell me, you tell we Masons to "quit the Masons and get to church," so am I to assume I can replace the word "Masons" in yor statement and replace it with the phrase "different faith than mine"?

That's what it sounds like to me.

Your answer is sure to be yes, or rather I should say it would be from most Christians who hold this viewpoint, and that's well and good. Good for you for following your faith; but didn't Jesus Himself say "Cast them not away" and allow people from other Faiths come and hear Him speak and break bread with Him? Of course he did. And do you know why? Because He spoke the TRUTH, and the TRUTH transcends Faith. "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Light," He said, right?

Did you ever consider that maybe He was speaking metaphorically, as in "Use me for your example?" As if to say "This is the WAY you should live, I speak the TRUTH, and the Truth leads to LIGHT; And my following my example, you can render yourself worthy of the Kingdom of my Father"?

Does this seem unreasonable to you?

You seem to be speaking from a very narrow viewpoint.

And as to your other comments, frankly, I don't really see a need to respond to them.

Fiat Lvx




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