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Ohio legislators propose total abortion ban

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posted on Sep, 30 2005 @ 09:52 AM
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I'm sure if loggers could get ELF terrorists to stop spiking trees by injecting painkillers in tree stumps, it'd be worth it.

That effort doesn't bother me.




posted on Sep, 30 2005 @ 10:03 AM
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Originally posted by Tinkleflower
You can't really refer to someone as a murderer ...
and pretend that's not being judgemental, you know?


I used that term once on this thread, and it was in a specific reference
to those who kill preborn children, while knowing that they are indeed
children who feel pain, in an effort to make money.

My quote -

When preborn children who feel pain are murdered for $$$
and then their body parts are sold to pharmacutical plants for
more $$$ then it's everyone's problem in America


I did not give a blanket statement that all persons who commit abortion
are murderers.

Most people who commit abortion do not understand that the child
feels pain and are not part of the money making process. (I mean
that they don't get paid for having an abortion.) Therefore
even though people who commit abortion do indeed kill another
human being, (the child's heart stops though their action, this is killing)
their knowledge of doing so isn't there so they couldn't be called
murderers - at least as far as I can tell.

The dictionary definitions of murder are
- the unlawful killing of a human being with malace of forethought
- to kill or slaughter inhumanely or barbarically
- to spoil or mar through incompetence

At this point it is lawful to commit abortion. I don't see that ever changing.
At this point it is also unlawful to kill or slaughter inhumanely or barbarically
- which is what abortion does when it kills a child who feels pain - and thus
the term 'murder' can fit in many instances.

Usually in a court of law a person wouldn't get 'murder' charges unless you
could prove intent. A lesser change of 'manslaughter' is used when
someone dies and the person who killed didn't intend to kill or didn't
realize that what he or she was doing would end up in the death of a
person.

But then again I'm not a lawyer so I have no idea of legalities in this and
what would be the legally appropriate phrase to use.



[edit on 9/30/2005 by FlyersFan]



posted on Sep, 30 2005 @ 10:06 AM
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Originally posted by RANT
ELF terrorists to stop spiking trees by injecting painkillers


huh?

People really do that? What's it based on? I'm not being a
smart a$$. I'd really like to know. Is there something that
botonists have found that say that trees feel pain? How are
they measuring it? I'm curious.



posted on Sep, 30 2005 @ 10:09 AM
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No, no, no... sorry.


I just meant if two opposed sides could agree on something that didn't make a bit of difference one way or the other, what's the harm?



posted on Sep, 30 2005 @ 10:30 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
I used that term once on this thread, and it was in a specific reference
to those who kill preborn children, while knowing that they are indeed
children who feel pain, in an effort to make money.


I'm not responding much, but I am reading this thread and I know you have accused people who have abortions of murder many times earlier. Here's just a couple. There are more...


Originally posted by FlyersFan
Most women excercised their right of 'choice' when they had sex and got pregnant. There is nothing 'slavery' about disallowing murder.



Originally posted by FlyersFan
The baby she refused to murder has grown up. She's ALIVE.


I only bring this up because what Tinkleflower said is true. People (especially people who have had abortions for whatever reason), don't take kindly to being accused of murder. And they're not likely to even entertain your point of view.

And do you have a source on the pain a fetus feels? I recall the study that there is no pain until the thier trimester:
Here
But I'm not sure about your constant claim that abortion is a painful death.



posted on Sep, 30 2005 @ 10:59 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
But I'm not sure about your constant claim that abortion is a painful death.


Understood (and I know you're talking to FF here), but what I'm saying is if they wanted to model abortion clinics after dentists that offer all kinds of elective natural versus "pain free" procedures, who cares?

They could open up smoke and voodoo Catholic Abortion Clinics for all I care where if they can't talk you out of it in 30 minutes or less, the abortion is free, both you and your mastocyst get high, last rites and a nice urn for carry home, then on your way out the door you get forgiven and loaded up with hillbilly heroin for your trouble. Sounds like a nice spiritual molestation free experience to me and the Church makes a little cash on the side while saving souls and preventing pain. Why not?

It's really not the formal cooperation in "evil" that's the problem. It's that they don't run it. Let 'em compete. This IS America.



posted on Sep, 30 2005 @ 11:12 AM
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The pain thing still does not elevate the fetus to the same status as a grown woman.. the only ones that could benefit from that argument are drug companies.



posted on Sep, 30 2005 @ 11:21 AM
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Originally posted by RANT
They could open up smoke and voodoo Catholic Abortion Clinics for all I care ...


Ahhh, I love the smell of heresy in the morning!


I hear you, RANT. Loud and clear.



posted on Sep, 30 2005 @ 02:49 PM
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Hey while digging on the "Fetus pain". . .Does anybody pro lifers here knows what is next in their agenda?

I imagine that now that the fetus pain is an issue and one reason to ban abortions. . . I wonder if the next step is to ban natural birth due to the inhumane way new born babies are brought to this world.

After all they get their heads squeezed like watermelons while they are born.

Any thought on that or is OK to cause traumatic damage to new Born's head and feelings, because after all the are been keep alive. Right?

Forceps, suction and the most inhumane of all cesareans are all causing pain to the unborn child.

I don't see anybody complaining about this.



posted on Sep, 30 2005 @ 03:30 PM
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marg, you little rebel, you!


Actually I brought this up in another thread and it seems pain is acceptable as long as the baby lives. So...

Pain + baby dies= Bad
Pain + baby lives= Good

So, if I remember my algebra, the pain in each equasion can be canceled out and the final formula is:

baby dies = Bad
baby lives = Good

Hmmm... we're right back where we started.
Seems the pain was just a gimmick to make abortion seem even less morally acceptable.

As far as the next appeal? Who knows? Maybe the mother's emotional health?



posted on Sep, 30 2005 @ 03:38 PM
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orr...how about, I want the baby to adopt, or hey, look at our national debt, if women don't start having kids, mine will have to pay it!! or how about I am getting old, and there's not enough kids to support me in my old age, or how about there's just not a big enough labor force, we're gonna have to pay out the arse soon for our labor, or ship more jobs overseas, or import more (yuck) aliens. how about the great....white educacted women are refusing to have babies so now the poor black and hispanics are becoming the majority..

seriously, I find myself wondering how much of this movement (at least the gov'ts participation in it is really concerned about the live of the children....they don't seem too concerned later, when that child needs healthcare and there's no money for it, and how much of it is really related to all the above issues...
women have more babies, or the financial repercussions will affect us!

We want our slaves back!!!



posted on Sep, 30 2005 @ 08:15 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
marg, you little rebel, you!


Actually I brought this up in another thread and it seems pain is acceptable as long as the baby lives. So...

Pain + baby dies= Bad
Pain + baby lives= Good



See you are right it goes back to the same issue as long as the fetus is safe pro lifers care less what happen to the new born child and the mother.



posted on Sep, 30 2005 @ 08:20 PM
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Originally posted by dawnstar
how about the great....white educacted women are refusing to have babies so now the poor black and hispanics are becoming the majority..



You are right, but did you heard the outrageous comments of former Education Secretary William Bennett for remarks linking the crime rate and the abortion of black babies.

I tell you some around have very high priorities.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

I find the entire Bennett affair borders in the "supremacy kind".

Disgusting.



posted on Sep, 30 2005 @ 11:01 PM
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the guy must be suffering from a severe case of foot-in-mouth now. actually, if you hear the whole clip of what he said, someone called in and suggested trying to justify banning abortion using the argument that the less abortions that are done now, the more will be contributing to social services later.....of course, the less troops we had dying in Iraq now, the more we'd have to pay later, but you probably wouldn't be hearing this guy suggest bringing the troops home.....the they guy kind of gave that remark about aborting the african american babies to reduce crime, but he did say that this would be a really bad, immoral thing to do.

My main gripe is that some go into debates like this...divorce is another on they'll do it with,....and well, it's like women are evil, they'll abort their offsping if we give them a chance, so we must clamp down and not give them that chance, don't worry, if they claim that they will die if they give birth, they are just lying, or there won't be enough of them to matter any ways....
well, to the women involved, I think it might matter, for the children and other family members that they might leave behind, I think it might matter. We can debate all day long about weather abortion is a right to all women, and won't come up with an answer. since, most do feel that sometimes women abuse that right. but the issue here isn't that, it is weather or not any women......even those that may die if they carry the child full term... should have that right.
like I said before, if a women doesn't have the right to protect herself by aborting a baby that is threatening her life, then a nation doesn't have the right to go to war with another nation on the basis that they might, maybe be a threat to them.....THEY ARE HYPOCRITS! willing to deny others the right to self protection while killing thousands protecting themselves from imaginary threats!



posted on Oct, 3 2005 @ 12:48 AM
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Originally posted by xpert11
Its not the governments job to impose morals on society women should decide if abortion is right or wrong. The Ohio Constitution Party must be a fan of big government.




I was just going to say that the constitution party is all about supporting the constitution, yet the hypocrisy lies in the proof of them trying to legislate morality.

You can be pro life like I am but also respect the fact that others should be free to make the choice of having an abortion because thats what freedom means. It can't be a double edged sword, no matter how much this topic makes YOU cringe...

YOU don't have that right in a free country to tell other people what to do. That's what dictator's and big centralized government do.



posted on Oct, 3 2005 @ 07:48 AM
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Originally posted by TrueLies

You can be pro life like I am but also respect the fact that others should be free to make the choice of having an abortion because thats what freedom means.


Those are the best worlds so far I have read today, True lies.





YOU don't have that right in a free country to tell other people what to do. That's what dictator's and big centralized government do.



Exactly. . . when you take away one right the problems lies when it span to more than one issue.

The repercussions of one action will affect many others, people need to step outside the box and see the whole issue of abortion as part of female choices.

Many are so consumed in the "fetus Rights" that ignore the rest because that is how they have been worked out to do, by the leaders and pushers of the agenda.

See it as women rights firsts, the fetus rights is just the bait.



posted on Nov, 10 2005 @ 02:17 AM
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I lived in Ohio when I was a kid. Hated it.

Im glad I dont live there now. I am thankful I live in a civilized region of the country where for the most part, the government minds its own biz and stays the hell out of peoples personal lives. Out here, we tend to fight them alot more when they try to impose ridiculous laws. Sometimes we fail, like with this ridiculous smoking ban.

But I love the western US. Out here, we dont have the religous right wing whack job fundies in any signifigant number or any signifigant force. Maybe thats why more people move out west than move back east?

Anyway, I highly doubt that Ohio will successfuly have this law passed. Despite the huge number of Religous nut jobs out in woods, Ohio does have signifigant populations in its major cities of more reasonable, intelligent folks who will help balance out the crazies and keep abortion the private choice between a woman and her doctor.




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