Why put a nuclear sub in the hands of a moron?

Major Discrepancy posts,

"Right or wrong, U.S. military officers are seldom criticized in public by their peers. I am loathe to do so myself, even when warranted. There is a "code" which is adhered to, occasionally to the detriment of the services."

I agree with Major Discrepancy's post. We were not there. It is difficult for us to accurately and fairly speculate on what exactly happened.
We as the public will not be in on the hearings when they happen.

I will say this about the accident. Looking at the photos..the damage is very extensive and also close to fatal. This means that the crew did a marvelous job in damage control and monitoring the situation all the way home. If you have ever seen these guys train...it is quite impressive. This is where it pays off. The long hours of work and then standing watchs when one is dead tired...this is where it pays dividends. I salute them.

There have been and will be more accidents ..in the Navy..It is the very nature of this buisness. The worst I can recall was the collision of the USS Belknap and the carrier USS John Kennedy. The ships collided and the Kennedy sheared off most of the top of the Belknap with her aircraft elevator back in about 1975. This was a horrible horrible accident. There will be others. Not our position to second guess what happened or who is to blame..this is the job of the boards.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by DRAGON27
i was in VF-111 until 1995 then i was sent to VF-103 on the BIG E until i ejected on Aug. 11 2000.

there no such thing as bad ploting anymore. Capt. Mooney just didnt follow the proper protocalls and check the up to date satalite maps. and crusin at 38 knots when at war is just not that stealthy. he screwwed the pouch and just gets to retire. and to add insult he is getting his pention.

I guess the requirements for a Naval Aviator diminished after my time in the Navy.

Plotting
Didn’t
Protocols
Satellite
Cruising
Screwed
Pooch
Pension

I know it’s tough to utilize a spell check program while bashing a fellow officer, but it will bolster your argument.

Egress Monkeys, not just for the black and yellow handle anymore…

Originally posted by DRAGON27
i was a Sundowner for my whole to short time in Navy. ive been to a few combat zones but i dont really talk about that.

I don't mean to be rude, but the way in which you type and the language which you use makes me think you were never part of the Navy. Not to be rude, but... in England you have to well...be able to type in English. :|

DRAGON27's profile
Last active: 26/6/2005 at 19:50

Just wondering when you would stop by and clear up a few things, trivial details really.

After all, after such a vociferous attack on a fellow officer, one would think that an explanation of your own discrepancies would be a minor affair.

Waiting Monkeys, not just for major discrepancies anymore...

Well, I am glad to see things haven't really changed since I went out to sea...

First off, I thought there was an anti-flame rule here.

Second-

CDR Mooney was using the charts he was told to use. The requirements for those charts was that they did not need to be updated. That's bad on the Navy. We should always use the most up to date charts, but sometimes it can't be avoided. Not all of the ocean has been charted. Things change, and you can't use pictures of the ocean surface to make a chart of the bottom.

As to SONAR finding the seamount, going that fast, SONAR just isn't effective.

Is CDR Mooney responsible? You bet. Is it his fault? No. Thats just how the Navy works.

There is a very long line of people who are involved in this. There are the QM's who mark the chart, the Nav and A-Nav who review the chart, the XO and CO who also approve the chart, the Defense Mapping Agency the makes the charts, and so on and so on.

Also, as was previously stated, their planned movement was already approved by higher authority. So, where is the blame for that?

As to the boat holding together and making it back to the surface, that is a testament to SUBSAFE and the USN QA program working.

After going 30+ knots to 0 in about 3 seconds, with only one fatality, while a crappy deal, is still good odds. You have all seen the pictures, that boat was messed up. And to think, the only thing keeping the water out of the people tank was a sight glass on a torpedo tube!

Well, thats my two cents for now, maybe more to come. (Depends on what kind of replies I get)

So Dragon 27 is one of those sad individuals who pretends to be fighter pilot while he shovels fries into the Supersize cartons. His grammar was indeed highly suspect.

That's pretty shameful

However, back at the thread - Did I miss something, I thought the Captain of that sub had been exonerated and that inaccurate oceanography maps had been held to blame.

Did the subsequent investigation find him guilty of negligence ?

The last *I* had heard was that he was removed from command during the investigation, which was later made permanent. No charges were brought against him, he was just removed from command, and probably had his career ended.

Now that is the real question.

i dont think that that capt should be fired... its not just him its the whole crew... if some1 does something wrong then it all goes to crap

But the ULTIMATE responsibility for the safety of the boat, and the crew lies on the captain. If a seaman first class does something wrong and damages the boat, it's the responsibility of the captain. If the boat rams an undersea mount and kills a crew member, it's the responsibility of the captain.

i know i know... lol seaman... hah but if some1 miss heard some1 else?? i dont think that people in the same room comunicate with stuff like text messages....

No they don't, and I agree that there are times when the Capt shouldn't be held responsible, but....

but yea he is in charge... so if anything happenes then he is in trouble...