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Why put a nuclear sub in the hands of a moron?

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posted on May, 20 2005 @ 04:11 PM
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the USS San Fransico hit a seamont at 32 knots the Capt. said there was no warning it (the sub) just stopped. well just "stopping" killed on sailor and turn the inside into wath was discribed as a slauterhouse be a dock worker. the front of the sub was torn away to the balsest tanks witch started to fill with water. when the emergency blow was hit nothing happen for almost two min. so is this where the insane taxes we pay go. to teach a capt. to command a sub or any vessle like he was in a demoletion debiey, and like he was in grandpa's caddy.




posted on May, 20 2005 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by DRAGON27
the USS San Fransico hit a seamont at 32 knots the Capt. said there was no warning it (the sub) just stopped. well just "stopping" killed on sailor and turn the inside into wath was discribed as a slauterhouse be a dock worker. the front of the sub was torn away to the balsest tanks witch started to fill with water. when the emergency blow was hit nothing happen for almost two min. so is this where the insane taxes we pay go. to teach a capt. to command a sub or any vessle like he was in a demoletion debiey, and like he was in grandpa's caddy.

With respect submarine captains are regarded as the best in the navy, they drive a boat with no windows. The submarine crew can navigate it with just a compass, a map, a stopwatch and a pencil under several hundred feet of water might I add.

This incident has ruined this captains career , I feel sorry for a man who makes one mistake and he ruined.



posted on May, 20 2005 @ 04:21 PM
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If there was no notification, it wasn't the captain who failed, it was the sonar guy or whoever it is who is supposed to monitor for obstructions. In a boat with no windows traveling underwater, you can't know what is coming without your instruments. As a captain, you can't monitor every instrument all the time, that's why there are more than one sailor on a sub. If the captain didn't get a warning, he was never given a warning, and acted as would be expected.

The telepathy and clairvoyance courses for our sub captains are still in the beginning stages.



posted on May, 20 2005 @ 04:22 PM
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should also remember that they depend on sonar to see wats out there and mountains dont make noises like man on chains. also they depended on old maps. if they go active sonar they could have seen the mountain but then they reveal themselves to possible hostile sub even in peace time. submariners are trained to be quiet and not to reveal their location ever.



posted on May, 20 2005 @ 04:49 PM
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Dragon27, Hi! This is great!

I'd thought I was the only ex-submariner here on ATS (SS476, Runner, scrapped, alas in 1973), and it looks like I have an old shipmate here!

Welcome!

I mean, you are a former submariner, right?

And you know about the three different charts that were used -- or should have been used? And you know exactly what kind of briefing CDR Mooney had, and what the state of the sea was and all the rest, right?

It sure is great that all of the taxpayers here have the advantage of your expertise to see how their taxes are misspent.

Keep up the great work, Dragon27!



posted on May, 20 2005 @ 07:39 PM
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i was a F-14 pilot. i was retied after ejecting and breaking both legs. so i can never fly agian. i respect the submariner and their job because some defend the battle group. that is why driving a sub into seamount really ticks me off and there is NOTHING YOU CAN THAT MAKES IT O.K.



posted on May, 20 2005 @ 07:44 PM
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As it is the commander is little more than navigator. The missles are under direct control of his superiors, and he has no access to targetting information, no checks, no balances. They relay their desire to press the button, he relays his desire to crewman such and such, and the button gets pressed.

I wish the 'morons' had control instead of the megalomaniacs. At least with the morons we could count on an apology afterwards, maybe a genuine feeling of remorse for wiping out half the human population.

That's just me personally.



posted on May, 20 2005 @ 07:47 PM
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I remember as a young lad entering the work force at this shipyard..speaking to a olde navy salt who served on diesel boats. He told me that they used to sit night after night off the coast of Russia...just listening ...listening and more listening. Transiting off to deeper waters to snort and charge batteries. What was so unusual to me was his tale of standing watchs in the torpedo room with a umbrella. He claimed the condensate got so bad..it was how he kept dry.
I always loved to hear these guys tell their stories. Still do.

I worked on the USS San Francisco when it was being built here. Sad to see her in such condition.
This kind of thing has happened in the Silent Service before..but not as badly that I recall.. Collisions are not a new phenomonon with the Navy. These guys were close ...very close. Looking at the pictures ..I wonder if they had weapons stuck in the tubes..and who the luckey person was who got the job of getting them out? Talk about pucker factor.

Thanks Off the STreet for your years of service to our nation.
Orangetom



posted on May, 20 2005 @ 09:00 PM
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Originally posted by DRAGON27
i was a F-14 pilot. i was retied after ejecting and breaking both legs. so i can never fly agian. i respect the submariner and their job because some defend the battle group. that is why driving a sub into seamount really ticks me off and there is NOTHING YOU CAN THAT MAKES IT O.K.


When and with which squadron(s) did you fly?

We may know some of the same folks.



posted on May, 21 2005 @ 07:42 AM
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i was a Sundowner for my whole to short time in Navy. ive been to a few combat zones but i dont really talk about that.



posted on May, 21 2005 @ 12:46 PM
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Originally posted by DRAGON27
i was a Sundowner for my whole to short time in Navy. ive been to a few combat zones but i dont really talk about that.


When did you fly for them? Like I said before we may know some of the same people.



posted on May, 22 2005 @ 08:16 PM
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My knowledge of this situation isn't up to date in the least so I have a few questions. Most importantly, has there been any public release of information which clarifies the question which was initially raised about the sub possibly hitting a new terrain feature created by the earthquake which caused the infamous tsunami?

If somebody did a bad job of plotting the course or of tracking the ships position then oh well- somebody needs to lose their job. If there is some chance that terrain or navigation was affected by the earthquake and tsunami though, then there are much bigger questions for the navy to look at.



posted on May, 22 2005 @ 10:50 PM
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i was in VF-111 until 1995 then i was sent to VF-103 on the BIG E until i ejected on Aug. 11 2000.

there no such thing as bad ploting anymore. Capt. Mooney just didnt follow the proper protocalls and check the up to date satalite maps. and crusin at 38 knots when at war is just not that stealthy. he screwwed the pouch and just gets to retire. and to add insult he is getting his pention.



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by DRAGON27
there no such thing as bad ploting anymore. Capt. Mooney just didnt follow the proper protocalls and check the up to date satalite maps. and crusin at 38 knots when at war is just not that stealthy. he screwwed the pouch and just gets to retire. and to add insult he is getting his pention.


What?

He was following a course that was pre-approved for his use. His high SOA was also approved.

Satellite maps would not have been much use to him where he was travelling.

Virtually every ship CO that has been involved in a collision has been allowed to retire with pension, how is that adding insult to injury. The man made a mistake and the cost was pretty high. Does that erase all of the previous service he has done?



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 05:22 PM
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Satellite maps would not have been much use to him where he was travelling.

Never know when those high definition sat pictures of the nude beach are going to come in handy.....



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 06:04 PM
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Originally posted by DRAGON27
i was in VF-111 until 1995 then i was sent to VF-103 on the BIG E until i ejected on Aug. 11 2000.


I was going to stay out of this, the poor grammar and spelling (the Navy wants the best minds for it's fighter squadrons, and it's submarine fleet as well), the vagueness, but a dates a date. There wasn't a recorded incident on the date you provided, nor the squadrons you claimed to front seat for.

For those that doubted reading pleasure.

www.anft.net...

Please spare us any "the aircraft wasn't lost" convolutions, no driver, no landing.

As for VF-103, they were reassigned to the Eisenhower in 1997, and then on to the Washington in 2000.

www.globalsecurity.org...

Naval Monkeys, not just for bellybuttons anymore…



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 11:04 PM
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Monkey, you beat me out again!

there were four aircraft from VF-103 lost; note the dates:

162914 F-14B VF-103 12.02.1994
161601 F-14B VF-103 13.09.1993
161430 F-14A VF-103 21.01.1991
162913 F-14B VF-103 31.07.1998

Dragon, it's not just your execrable grammar, spelling, and sentence structure/organization, although they were a dead giveaway; Mirthful was right.

What busted you was your attitude toward defense in general as well as toward a real naval officer.



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 11:07 PM
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Cool Hand, does the name Theo Hnarakis ring a bell with you? I believe he's a four-striper now.



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 11:36 PM
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Vagabond says:


My knowledge of this situation isn't up to date in the least so I have a few questions. Most importantly, has there been any public release of information which clarifies the question which was initially raised about the sub possibly hitting a new terrain feature created by the earthquake which caused the infamous tsunami?


I never heard about the seamount being a new terrain feature, but I doubt it's the case; although there is a brand new escarpment caused by the plate slippage in December '04, the earthquake was a couple thousand miles southwest, in the Indian Ocean, at the Andaman-Sumatran Subduction Zone; the actual escarpment was only about 65 feet high, and was at a sea depth of (I believe) several thousand feet.



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by Off_The_Street
What busted you was your attitude toward defense in general as well as toward a real naval officer.


Right or wrong, U.S. military officers are seldom criticized in public by their peers. I am loathe to do so myself, even when warranted. There is a "code" which is adhered to, occasionally to the detriment of the services.

DRAGON27, your claim of being a U.S. Naval Aviator was in poor taste and poorly executed, veracity is incumbent upon any poster, and the attempt to bolster the credibility of your position within a thread you initiated is unconscionable and a violation of the T&C.

If the General gets wind of this, your goose is cooked.

Dismissed.



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