Speculation: Jesus' DNA

Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
Sorry Marg6043 - I usually try to Deny Ignorance. I am just so Sick of people who are so sure of what is "Satanic" & what is "Godly" - they jump on the Forums & blurt out their OPINIONS without realizing the Relativity of their Perception!

Somewereinbetween just called a Jewish Ritual = "Satanic"! When I usually point out how much the Christian Religion was influenced by Judaism (as well as various Pagan Faiths) - then people like Somewereinbetween usually have nothing to say! So I just figured that I would do the same and point that out! It is usually everyone but THEMSELVES that are "Satanic" - they are "Godly" of-course!

It is what it is!

We in western society would look at the smearing of blood on others when carried out in the jungle as a pagan ritual and in the rest of the world as a satanic ritual. You can deny that all you wish, but you fool no one.

And while you may be sick of my type of perception, know that I understand your retaliation is nothing but your anger at not being able to adequately counter my statements, so instead you hope to make your mark by fatuous remarks.

You obviously do not absorb much either, and that is because you are so indoctrinated into your Christianity that you are narcissistic in approach when it comes to same and have not the ability to comprehend that which is placed before your eyes.

Let me put it to you this way; I am an equal opportunist when it comes to showing the perverse nature of any of the Abrahamic faiths, for they are all reliant on pagan, yes I state pagan doctrine, and as such will be so afforded the treatment they deserve.

You choose to take offense to my discounting of Christianity only because you have not the wherewithal to correlate that with the numerous times I stated it stems from Judaism which is from the pagan worship of the likes of Atum/Ra/Amun. Yet, you would undoubtedly be lending your acerbic fonts to the religion from which your very own was forged were it a topic, only because you have no clue as to the realtionship, and have no desire to educate yourself in that regard. So your erroneous charge that I have nothing to say when it comes to Judaism is nothing but unadulterated hogwash! for were you at all observant, you would know this, and if you do not then your barb is out of pure animosity, negligence and ineptitude.




[edit on 6/5/05 by SomewhereinBetween]

Quote: "We in Western Society would look at the smearing of blood on others when carried out in the jungle as a Pagan Ritual and in the rest of the world as a Satanic Ritual."

You crack me up Somewereinbetween! You go on to DIS Pagan Faiths, Judaism & Christianity! If you are not a Jew or Christian or Pagan then may I ask just what Faith/Religion you Practice (you call yourself a "Westerner" so there goes Buddhism & the Rest) – if any?

Let me guess you would probably call yourself a "Rationalist". Indeed like Most "Westerners" you are probably an Atheistic Materialist! Yes Money will Solve all of our Problems! Don't make me Laugh at your Delusions!
How do you know that is in fact not the REAL "Satanism"?

Originally posted by Seraphim_SerpenteYou crack me up Somewereinbetween! You go on to DIS Pagan Faiths, Judaism & Christianity! If you are not a Jew or Christian or Pagan then may I ask just what Faith/Religion you Practice (you call yourself a "Westerner" so there goes Buddhism & the Rest) – if any?

That deduction is your first mistake, and it is one based not on rationale but one based on your engrained belief that one must have a religion, and one that exists within the various so-called religious doctrines of the day. Well, if you must attribute my belief to any religion at all, you can refer to it as: Monoteism. Just so you understand me, that refers to one God, and therefore the belief in One God and one God only. And BTW, you are incorrect once more, for I did not ever label myself a Westerner, even though I happen to be one. I have a particular distaste for those whose interpretative skills are not only lacking.

Let me guess you would probably call yourself a "Rationalist". Indeed like Most "Westerners" you are probably an Atheistic Materialist! Yes Money will Solve all of our Problems! Don't make me Laugh at your Delusions!

Don't guess, as you exponentially increase your wrong ratio. Laugh at whatever you wish to laugh at. If attempting to insult another is what you brings you giggles in lieu of not being able to offer a rebuttal, then why should I bothered that you console yourself with whatever is necessary to stroke your despoiled ego?

How do you know that is in fact not the REAL "Satanism"?

How do I know what is not the REAL Satanism? When did I ever claim Satan to be real?

Adendum: Everything in moderation friend, I think you are caught up in the importance of yourself.



[edit on 6/5/05 by SomewhereinBetween]

Quote: "I did not ever label myself a Westerner."

From previous post: "We in Western Society would"

Close enough - you are playing a Semantics game!

Quote: "When did I ever claim Satan to be real?"

Ok so when you Accuse people of Practicing

Quote: "Satanic Rituals"

you are doing what exactly? Accusing them of Worshiping the Sky?

It is you that have the Ingrained Bias my friend - case closed!

The only one playing semantics here is you, to wit:

Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
Quote: "I did not ever label myself a Westerner."

From previous post: "We in Western Society would"

Close enough - you are playing a Semantics game!

Quote: "When did I ever claim Satan to be real?"

Ok so when you Accuse people of Practicing

Quote: "Satanic Rituals"

you are doing what exactly? Accusing them of Worshiping the Sky?

It is you that have the Ingrained Bias my friend - case closed!

Where in there is your defense to your posturing of:

Let me guess you would probably call yourself a "Rationalist". Indeed like Most "Westerners" you are probably an Atheistic Materialist! Yes Money will Solve all of our Problems! Don't make me Laugh at your Delusions!

Do you think your feeble attempt at obfuscation would actually work?

Now to address those you chose to respond to in the hopes the above would be forgotten.

I did not label myself a Westerner in the post to which you initialy responded and jumped to the conclusion that I was, since being in the Western world does not make one a westerner in the context as presented. Obviously I have not yet learned that when dealing with others, one must not assume that they are not bereft of the minutest shred of interpretative skills. Were I intent to hide my affiliation, I would not have actually admitted to same would I?

Satan- accusing others of practicing an art, in this case the art of satanism does not mean I accept satan as being real. It merely acknowledges that those with whom I debate accept same as real, where it is my pleasure to use their (your) understanding of same against them (you).

Have you any more insipid questions before you can find the muster to rebut my statements, or shall we continue this pissing contest?

Originally posted by trust_no_one
i dont think the DNA would be much diferent then normal human DNA, although what ive wonderd is if they would try to clone him if they ever found some of his DNA, or somebody who knew him's DNA

His DNA would be NO DIFFERENT from that of a normal human. Yes, Mary (aka Miriam) was "over shadowed" by the Holy Spirit, but so is everyone at the moment of conception. According to Judaism, the Holy Spirit is an Agent of Conception and is a Participant, with the couple, in the act of procreation.

The early Jewish Believers were of the opinion that Yeshua (Jesus) was the biological offspring of Miriam and Yosef, who "knew" his wife prior to their betrothal via the dowry and the signing of the pre-nuptial agreement called a ketubah. Jewish Law (Mishnah Kiddushin 1:1) specifies that a woman is acquired (i.e., to be a wife) in three ways: through money, a contract, and sexual intercourse. Ordinarily, all three of these conditions are satisfied, although only one is necessary to effect a binding marriage.

So, there was nothing technically wrong with Yosef knocking boots with Miriam and getting her pregnant -- with a little help from the Holy Spirit -- prior to the dowry being given and the ketubah being signed.

Anyway, getting back to the DNA thing.... Shades of Kahless, from the Star Trek Next Generation episode "Rightful Heir". The problem with cloning a new "Jesus", would be the same problems encountered with the cloning of Kahless.

Sure, even if the cloners were able to accurately "indoctrinate" the "Jesus clone" with what is know of him from the gospels and did so in a manner that wouldn't detract from the historical, linguistic and cultural background of the historic man himself ... he would still have memory gaps and would be "a man out of his time."

Like the clone of Kahless, he might eventually serve as a figurehead for whatever following he might gain, but ... he'd have to find his own way and in the end ... given all the crap that's been piled on the historical Jesus (aka Yeshua) down through the centuries ... he'd have detractors and enemies at every bend and turn.

Further, the majority of Christians would want him to muster up to THEIR perceptions of the "Jesus" espoused by THEIR sect. In the end, he wouldn't measure up to THEIR expectations.

[edit on 6-6-2005 by smadewell]

Have you any more insipid questions before you can find the muster to rebut my statements, or shall we continue this pissing contest?

Ah, the wonders of religion. The total destruction of this planet will be over some theological disagreement.


P.S. The more expansive vocabulary you use, the less likely you are of getting a good (relaxed) arguement. We can all show off.

Originally posted by Monkfish

Have you any more insipid questions before you can find the muster to rebut my statements, or shall we continue this pissing contest?

Ah, the wonders of religion. The total destruction of this planet will be over some theological disagreement.

"We have just enough religion to make us hate, but not enough to make us love one another." - Jonathan Swift

"We are the world in small. A nation is a human thing; it does what we do, for our reasons. Surely, if we’re civilized, it must be possible to put the knives away. We can make peace. We have it in our hands." - King Henry II of England (played by Peter O'Toole) in The Lion in Winter (1968)

Satan sits back and laughs, taking another drag off his turkish pipe....

How he loves to sow needless arguments... to distract you from love (which translate into the higher truths)

[edit on 6/6/05 by EastCoastKid]

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Satan sits back and laughs, taking another drag off his turkish pipe.... How he loves to sow needless arguments... to distract you from love (which translate into the higher truths)

Brother, you said a mouthful! Ain't it the truth!? Why must these forums degenerate into such pointless pursuits as name-calling and back-biting? Come on now! Let's all hug the person next to us and hold hands and sing "Kumbaya". Time enough for anger in the grave. Life's too short.

Originally posted by smadewell
Brother, you said a mouthful! Ain't it the truth!? Why must these forums degenerate into such pointless pursuits as name-calling and back-biting? Come on now! Let's all hug the person next to us and hold hands and sing "Kumbaya".

Time enough for anger in the grave. Life's too short.

Amen, brother, Amen.

Many spend to much time looking for salvation that they forget to make their lives a meaningful ones.

And end up figuring out that it was not that salvation eluded them it was just that they were looking in the wrong places.

Always outside and never within themselves.

[edit on 6-6-2005 by marg6043]

Originally posted by smadewell
Brother, you said a mouthful! Ain't it the truth!? Why must these forums degenerate into such pointless pursuits as name-calling and back-biting?

As toes are stepped on verbally, people lose focus of what is most important. Attacking each other for disagreeing is all too human.

Seems like we'd try and rise above that, especially when discussing the PRINCE OF PEACE.:shk:

OK lets continue! Would you mind telling us how/why you became a "Monotheist" Somewhereinbetween?

You do Realize that Judaism is a Monotheistic Faith - do you not? Jews also only Believe in "One God" = the Creator (although He does get Pissed pretty easily - then becomes the "Destroyer"). So then why are you talking Negatively about fellow Monotheists - just because you find their Rituals "Gross"? Is this really any of your Business? Are you a Xenophobe?

Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
OK lets continue! Would you mind telling us how/why you became a "Monotheist" Somewhereinbetween?

Let me see if I can recall:

At first I was sitting in my cave asking myself how to make this T-rex more appetizing to my man, the one who killed same. While contemplating this and in between picking lice from my hair, I was rubbing two sticks together when they suddenly ignited. Obviously the fire answered me, because the sound it made was so not what I had ever heard before, and manifested itself in a puff of smoke that looked like nothing I had seen before. So I tossed the side 'o' T-rex ribs onto same, the old man came home after an exhausting day of mah-jong with the boys, looked at it and asked; 'what is this?' Thinking on my bare and calloused feet, I quickly replied: 'a burnt offering dear.' He bit into same, no, more like tore into same, (I just could not teach him table manners) complimented me for the new flavour and declared same; 'out of this world.' As the news spread from cave to cave, the other women wanted to know how I created this magic, and being the intellect I was even in my first life, I responded..."ga, ga, ga...duh!' Not too long after though, my neighbour being the jealous wretch she was, and not to be outdone, noticed that in the noon day sun, a bundle of dried sticks caught fire. She then ran to the three adjoining caves in our city and declared she found the real...'ga, ga, gad.' which was not sticks but that bright shiny thing that caused our skin to burn. Being in awe, all 70 of us on the whole earth, 2 from my cave, 20 from another, 34 from another, and 14 from the last one in our city, called that bright thing 'ga, ga gad.' By the time we were 226 people, the young uns, you know how those young uns can be defiant and introduce their own slang? decided to just shorten it to..'gad.'

And I've been faithful to Gad since. Therefore monotheist. But then again maybe you prefer I tell your version? Oui? Oui!

Back in the land called Egypt where we have the oldest recorded history of man, there were these people who looked to Gad and decided it was to be called Amun. They figured that since it was so bright and warm, it had to be the cause of their creation, and so being auspicious in nature decided to create symbology, carve same into stone and tell us all these stories about Gad, this made them very powerful because they seemed to know what others did not. Well, wouldn't you know? As the population increased, some people just could not stand the thought that others were smarter than they, and so, they rebelled, formed what we know today as politics and gathered followers. Of course, this Gad had to be usurped, so they created this new generation as well as their own gad and named him Ra, by virtue of their followers after a rousing speech, who shouted; ra! ra! ra!. This Ra then, needed to be reinvented, and reinvented he was, because as the people moved from caves to mudhuts, they became smarter and demanded to know why ra was better than Gad.

The leaders were way ahead of them and created all these stories about their river, the animals,why the snake is deadly and why there is light and darkness, and giving everyone some never before heard name for each. As time went on, and the people started asking even more questions, like, why should we listen to you? the stories became more emboldened, and the leaders created all sorts of fantastic tales that they were the offspring of these wonders in the heaven and earth and only they can know the mysteries but were willing to part with the directives only of these things now called gods (It was an accent problem.)

A lot of years later, some wisecracker decided that he did not want to be just a follower, he wanted to lead, and that meant creating his own gods, so he roused the paupers, incited them to riot and demanded he and they be allowed to seperate, (Quebec has nothing on these folk). Whereupon, he and his father-in-law, seeing that the multitude were being recalcitrant, decided there and then to create their own gods. This wisecracker disappeared into the hills and came back declaring that he found the real god who spoke to him, and made all sorts of promises of a brighter future, and if the masses did not believe in this god from the hills, he, the god, who was really the wisecracker, would kill 'em just as soon as look at 'em, which he supposedly did. But all he did was take the gods of old and in their names create a new god. Not a soul challenged wisecracker's interpretation, and they were 'sore' afraid, because they gave up all of their metals to this god who decided to form same into swords and weapons of mass destruction, and to boot test their sharpness against a few thousand of his people, I mean enemy.

Well, after a couple thousand years of this, the leaders , busy trying to outwit the questions of the citizenry, came up against two others who had their ploy all figured out, some guys named Paul and Clement. These two used the history of the leaders from wisecracker omnward against the current, created yet another god from that history, and as luck would have it, god has a new moinker, some Roman name.

You do Realize that Judaism is a Monotheistic Faith - do you not? Jews also only Believe in "One God" = the Creator (although He does get Pissed pretty easily - then becomes the "Destroyer"). So then why are you talking Negatively about fellow Monotheists - just because you find their Rituals "Gross"? Is this really any of your Business? Are you a Xenophobe?

You see this is a prime example of why you are not in my league. Islam is monotheistic, do you believe in that religion? And no, the rituals are not gross, they are dispicable! I share nothing with you in monotheism, for your one-god comes to you not from within but from a 6,000 year old teaching of multiple gods which was ingeniously morphed into one over time. And I really don't care how much you think your fantasy of a destroyer becomes pissed, he will never materialize.

[edit on 6/7/05 by SomewhereinBetween]

I musta missed something! We went from DNA and cloning "Jesus" to Satanism and Monotheism? Weeeeee! Fasten your seat belts. It's going to be a bumpy ride. :bnghd:

Originally posted by smadewell
I musta missed something! We went from DNA and cloning "Jesus" to Satanism and Monotheism? Weeeeee! Fasten your seat belts. It's going to be a bumpy ride. :bnghd:

I hearya!

Jesus, save me from your followers!
:shk:

[edit on 6/7/05 by EastCoastKid]

OH OK - I get it now - after all of that Psycho Babble! Your "ONE GOD" is a DIFFERENT "GOD" than everyone elses "ONE GOD" - Genius! Brilliant - why didn't I think of that!

Like I said Dude - Delusion! WEAK very WEAK!

P.S. Who said that I was a Jew/Jewish? I am not! I just don't see the use of Dissing them in a Public Forum!

Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
OH OK - I get it now - after all of that Psycho Babble! Your "ONE GOD" is a DIFFERENT "GOD" than everyone elses "ONE GOD" - Genius! Brilliant - why didn't I think of that!

Correct! Because you cannot.

Like I said Dude - Delusion! WEAK very WEAK!

That would be dudess, and the only think weak I see is your rebuttal.

P.S. Who said that I was a Jew/Jewish? I am not! I just don't see the use of Dissing them in a Public Forum!

I have no idea. Did someone say you were a Jew slash Jewish?

Quote: "Did someone say you were a Jew slash Jewish?"

-> Quote: "for your one-god"

Quote: "

Quote: "Your "ONE GOD" is a DIFFERENT "GOD" than everyone else’s "ONE GOD" - Genius! Brilliant - why didn't I think of that!"

Correct! Because you cannot."

Do you Realize that "GOD" is supposed to be Omniscient, All-Knowing,
All-Powerful, Universal Source of ALL? Do you not Believe that all Living Sentient Creatures that have Existed since the Beginning of Time had/has some sort of Connection to this "GOD Force"?

Why do you treat "GOD" like your Personal Pet "DOG"?

Hence my mentioning of Delusion. Wouldn’t you want to give it more Credit? I sure do!

I will do my best to work through your posts and discern between what you quote and to what you respond.

Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
Quote: "Did someone say you were a Jew slash Jewish?"

-> Quote: "for your one-god"

Should I bow out now knowing that the one with whom I am engaged in debate is not up on monotheistic religions? Why, I never knew that Jews hold the copyright to a one-god philosophy, where referring to "your one-god" means you must be a Jew. I think I hear the collective gasp of over 2 billion Christians at your losing argument.

Now the rest is like a jigsaw puzzle, and I am too lazy at present to review previous posts to try and place your current to which I reply in any semblance of discernible order.

Quote: "Your "ONE GOD" is a DIFFERENT "GOD" than everyone else’s "ONE GOD" - Genius! Brilliant - why didn't I think of that!"

Correct! Because you cannot."

But I do know that the following derelict and incomprehensible language is not anything that would register from my keyboard, therefore it is yours and I presume so correctly, no?:

Do you Realize that "GOD" is supposed to be Omniscient, All-Knowing,
All-Powerful, Universal Source of ALL? Do you not Believe that all Living Sentient Creatures that have Existed since the Beginning of Time had/has some sort of Connection to this "GOD Force"?

Why do you treat "GOD" like your Personal Pet "DOG"?

Hence my mentioning of Delusion. Wouldn’t you want to give it more Credit? I sure do!

You are trying to relate what exactly?



[edit on 6/13/05 by SomewhereinBetween]