Russia's next-generation T-95 tank

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posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 01:34 AM
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I stongly believe that tanks will start to become less important starting next decade.




posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 01:47 AM
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I read the ultimate description of a Main Battle Tank in a science fiction book, and I think he's dead on.

"The purpose of a tank isn't to take ground, or even hold ground. It's to rush forward, and get swarmed so that the infantry says 'Hey look at that stupid fool! We better go rescue him!' and proceeds to charge into battle to rescue the embattled tank."



posted on Jul, 2 2006 @ 02:58 AM
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Originally posted by Humster


Do they have any info about the Air defensive properites of this T-95 tanks?
Its seriously lacking for modern day MBTs



I always wondered that I know they can atleast in practice (VR) sims take out slow moving aircraft like helicopters with their main gun but have never heard of it in practice.

Cant they adapt something like Stingers to the outsie of tanks? Our is the range helicopters can take out tanks with hellfire missiles for example so far these systems arent practical?



posted on Jul, 2 2006 @ 03:28 AM
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well i dont think tanks are gona be outdated or diminished anytime. i mean imagine who or rather what can take their place?



posted on Jul, 2 2006 @ 05:15 AM
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Originally posted by Apollyon
81mm mortar rounds will cause sympathic detonation of era type armor once striped of the explosive armor they are easy marks.


Kontak-5 is a harder type of ERA that has an hard surface on the top to stop those type of attacks


Originally posted by Apollyon
iin combat there is always on in the pipe ....if you load wrong you can either spend the round and hope you haven't spooked/alerted the target or unload/reload, slow in auto loaders.


Have you seen the T-72 being loaded, There is no round in the breechlock already in place



posted on Jul, 2 2006 @ 04:36 PM
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A kinectic energy missile will kill it(including frontal strike).

The Line of Sight Antitank is a dedicated antitank weapon system capable of providing a high volume of accurate fires at ranges exceeding those of current tank main guns. The LOSAT Weapon System consists of an encased missile, missile shipping and storage containers, Fire Unit, support structure, reload system, Electro-Optical System (EOS), Target Acquisition System (TAS), Fire Control System (FCS) and Pulsed Laser System (PLS). The LOSAT will be mounted on an armament carrier, HMMWV (M1113), will have a three man crew, and carry four ready to fire Kinetic Energy Missiles (KEM). The KEM, a long rod tungsten penetrator, accelerates up to 5000 feet per second and has FIVE times the kinetic energy of current tank rounds. Time of flight to maximum range is less than five seconds.
www.globalsecurity.org...

LOAST was cancelled but the other two will easily kill it even in a frontal shot lol!!!


Newer KE penetrators like the US M829A2 and now M829A3, have been improved to defeat the armor design of Kontakt-5. The M829A2 was the immediate response, developed in part to take on the new armor bricks. The M829A3 is a further improvement of this as well and designed to fight future armor protection methods.
en.wikipedia.org...


BGM-71F TOW 2B The TOW 2B is the newest version of the TOW missile which will provide additional capability against future armored threats, starting production as an engineering change proposal to the FY 1990 production contract. The TOW 2B Missile incorporates new fly-over, shoot-down technology. The TOW 2B entered production in late 1991.
The TOW 2B was designed to attack targets from the top. The missile's trajectory places the missile slightly above the target when its two warheads explode downward. TOW 2B features a dual-mode sensor and a new armament section equipped with two warheads substantially different from those used in other TOW versions.
Earlier TOWs are direct-attack missiles with nose-mounted warheads that fire forward. The TOW 2B is designed to fly over the top of a tank and destroy it from above, where is is less heavily armored, by simultaneously detonating the missile's two Explosively Formed Penetrator (EFP) warheads downward. The fly-over shoot-down flight profile permits the attack of targets in defilade or protected by berms or other fortifications.
TOW 2B resembles the TOW 2A, with a six-inch diameter warhead section in front, but without the standoff probe. Similarly, with only software modifications, the TOW 2B is compatible with all TOW 2 launcher platforms and equipment already in the field.
www.globalsecurity.org...


A soft launch ejects the missile from the launch tube to give a low-recoil shoulder launch. The soft launch enables firing from inside buildings or covered positions. Once the missile is clear, the larger propellant in the second stage is ignited and the missile is propelled towards the target. The weapon has two attack modes, direct or top attack.



The round consists of the Javelin missile and the ATK (Alliant Techsystems) Launch Tube Assembly. The range of the missile is 2,500m. Javelin is a fire-and-forget missile with lock-on before launch and automatic self-guidance. The missile is equipped with an imaging infrared seeker which is based on a cadmium mercury telluride (CdHgTe) 64 x 64 staring focal plane array in the 8 to 12 micron waveband. BAE Systems Avionics is providing the infrared seekers for the British Army's missiles. The tandem warhead is fitted with two shaped charges: a precursor warhead to initiate explosive reactive armour and a main warhead to penetrate base armour. The propulsion system is a two-stage solid propellant design which provides a minimum smoke soft launch.
www.army-technology.com...

Now i woouldn't take this tank too seriously now since the US's latest penetrators/ATGM's will go through!


[edit on 2-7-2006 by urmomma158]

[edit on 2-7-2006 by urmomma158]



posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by chinawhite

Originally posted by Apollyon
81mm mortar rounds will cause sympathic detonation of era type armor once striped of the explosive armor they are easy marks.


Kontak-5 is a harder type of ERA that has an hard surface on the top to stop those type of attacks


BS, so now you're saying that it can distinguish between normal HE and a shaped charged HE. Where's teh link to this information and don't pretend you read it in a book somewhere.



posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 07:57 PM
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Even a light anti-tank weapon like the Javelin will go through ERA, it has a dual warhead to take out the ERA and to kill everything inside the tank.


The FGM-148A flies at altitudes above ground of up to 50m (160 ft) for the direct attack or 150 m (490 ft) for the top attack mode. The Javelin's IIR (Imaging Infrared) seeker with its staring focal plane array will guide the missile to the target, and the tandem shaped charge warhead detonates on impact. The warhead section consists of a precursor warhead to defeat ERA (Explosive Reactive Armour) and a main warhead to penetrate up to 800 mm of conventional armour.

Link



The CLU is reusable, the 35 pound missile and launch tube are used once. The Javelin contains a dual shaped charge warhead, mainly to defeat reactive armor. The missile comes in from above, hitting thinner top armor as well.

Link


[edit on 3-7-2006 by WestPoint23]



posted on Jul, 4 2006 @ 02:50 PM
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no tank can take a maverick miiisle(125lb shaped charge with a diameter twice as big as hellfire). Hellfire has a tandem warhead to defeat reactive armor and when fired from longer ranges has a steep dive which means hellfire will hit the thin upper armor. It's trajectory and steep dive make it deadly not necessarily the warhead which is a common misunderstanding. I doubt any tank could take a hit from the javelin either since it too like the hellfire is a top attack munition with tandem warheads!
Maverick
www.designation-systems.net...

Hellfire www.globalsecurity.org...

Gives you good info on it's trjaectory and from what ranges it will hit the thin top armor of the tank.

Brilliant anti armor munitions for the MLRS.This can take out a few armored collumns.
www.globalsecurity.org...





I've seen some video's of hellfires being launchd from long range and I can tell you it hits the armor at almost 90 degress.Video's of Hellfire doing that are rare and you can probably only see it on futureweapons. Im saying this just incase the globalsecurity link doesn't work(sometimes the site has problems) It hits at around an 85 degree angle. that's why hellfire is so deadly.

info on it's size length diameter etc(BAT). ..... www.raytheon.com...




[edit on 4-7-2006 by urmomma158]

[edit on 4-7-2006 by urmomma158]



posted on Jul, 4 2006 @ 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by Stealth Spy

Originally posted by deltaboy
armor.vif2.ru...

There is also an interesting artist's impression :


[edit on 21-5-2005 by Stealth Spy]


Thats a funky lookin tank. The US is making a new one which will be short and stealthy. Russians wouldnt be able to dectected it unless they see it with their eyes.



posted on Jul, 14 2006 @ 10:51 PM
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Originally posted by rogue1
BS, so now you're saying that it can distinguish between normal HE and a shaped charged HE.


It doesn't distinguish anything. Its a extra layer of armour to defeat APS rounds not HE rounds



posted on Jul, 15 2006 @ 08:26 PM
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Originally posted by chinawhite
It doesn't distinguish anything. Its a extra layer of armour to defeat APS rounds not HE rounds



Newer KE penetrators like the US M829A2 and now M829A3, have been improved to defeat the armor design of Kontakt-5. The M829A2 was the immediate response, developed in part to take on the new armor bricks. The M829A3 is a further improvement of this as well and designed to fight future armor protection methods.

en.wikipedia.org...

Already taken care of!!!



posted on Jul, 16 2006 @ 12:18 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite

Originally posted by rogue1
BS, so now you're saying that it can distinguish between normal HE and a shaped charged HE.


It doesn't distinguish anything. Its a extra layer of armour to defeat APS rounds not HE rounds


Gawd, you said that it won't be detonated by mortar rounds, however will magically work when struck by a sabot
So obviously you think it can distinguish between chemical and kinetic energy. Which is completely wrong.



posted on Jul, 16 2006 @ 01:05 AM
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Originally posted by rogue1
Gawd, you said that it won't be detonated by mortar rounds, however will magically work when struck by a sabot


I gather you dont know how the Kontak-5 in comparison to the standard ERA

It does not work on kinetic instead the percising of the dense exterior which triggers the explosive off. And i doubt a mortar round (like you claimed) would precise the exterior shell which is meant to stop a APS round

[edit on 16-7-2006 by chinawhite]



posted on Jul, 16 2006 @ 01:23 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite

Originally posted by rogue1
Gawd, you said that it won't be detonated by mortar rounds, however will magically work when struck by a sabot


I gather you dont know how the Kontak-5 in comparison to the standard ERA

It does not work on kinetic instead the percising of the dense exterior which triggers the explosive off. And i doubt a mortar round (like you claimed) would


ERm nada. I gather you don't know what Kontact-5 is or how reactive armour works, or the how string the pressure exerted by High Explosives. What is this dense interior you talk about ? do you even know or are you just using quotes off some forum you've read as usual ?



posted on Jul, 16 2006 @ 02:33 AM
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Originally posted by rogue1
ERm nada. I gather you don't know what Kontact-5 is or how reactive armour work What is this dense interior you talk about ?


I dont know what Kontakt-5 is??. You cant even spell it right. I gather from the above two comments you dont know what your talking about

LOL...Your digging yourself deeper. Talking about something you dont even know about and then trying to continue


Kontakt-5 ERA

In addition, thanks to their heavier (15 mm hard steel) front plate, the Kontakt-5 elements are harder to trigger by the precursor charges of tandem warheads, forcing the producers of tandem ATGMs to allocate more mass to precursor charge and, making an MBT more resistant to tandem HEAT warheads, as well.

It is very important to note that while light ERA containers are completely destroyed in the process of detonation, Kontakt-5 sections are not, as their detonation is contained by the outside armor plates. Therefore even after detonation Kontakt-5 sections continue to provide some applique protection.

Link

Also the article forgot to mention the improved Kontakt-5 which has been fitted with a mixture of tungsten and other elements

EDIT: wrong HTML code



[edit on 16-7-2006 by chinawhite]



posted on Jul, 16 2006 @ 03:19 AM
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Erm right obviously you don't know the difference of lughtweight precursor charges to mortar rounds. A precursor charge woulg have a couple of hundred grtams of HE, whilst mortar rounds contain kg's.
I also fail to see how 15mm of armour will stop the penetration of a precursor shaped charge


I know all you can do is regurgitate articles, not understand them and not think about statements made which may or may not be factual. Just because an article says something does not mean it is so.



posted on Jul, 16 2006 @ 04:42 AM
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Now tell me the difference between a shaped charge and a mortar round??????. A mortar round is not going to have the same effect as a shaped charge.

eg. Concentrated blast vs a unconcentrated blast over a wider area. About 300 grams in a 1cm^2 area vs 900 grams in a 10cm^2(generous considering mortars are a lot more splatter damage)

Its your turn to provide something about a mortar defeating Kontakt-5

And 15mm of hardened steel shatted APS rounds, how is a "Few hundred" grams of HE going to penerate 15mm of steel?. And considering the armour is put on angles of more than 45 degress it at least gives it more avabile armour. eg the famous T-34 armour on a slope




Just because an article says something does not mean it is so.


And your same argument would apply to a article written by a expert in his field?. Theres his website, why dont you go debate him and Mr. Robb McLeod who is a expert in tank armour and munitions


Here is something i wrote before hand, as a matter of fact this very post was directed towards you...LOL



Actually its third generation.

First one were the israeli ERA brick type blocks which were basic explosives which defeated Heat or other chemical rounds.

Then russian Kontakt-5 which were like the brick ERA but had a thicker denser outside to try break the tip of a APFSDS round and gave it extra protection which was mildly better.

Then there is this new Kaktus type of interweving armour which is a lot thinner and looks like it doesn't contain a lot of explosives or maybe none at all. Im just assuming this is just going to be used to defeat APFSDS rounds

Comparision



As you can see a lot thinner. And possibly the armour arrangment is a clam shell one as well

Here is a good read about ERA
Modern Explosive Reactive Armours



I feel Tanks are no longer useful, but Russia's most advanced Tank



[edit on 16-7-2006 by chinawhite]



posted on Jul, 16 2006 @ 08:03 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite
And 15mm of hardened steel shatted APS rounds, how is a "Few hundred" grams of HE going to penerate 15mm of steel?. And considering the armour is put on angles of more than 45 degress it at least gives it more avabile armour. eg the famous T-34 armour on a slope


Yes a few hundred grams of HE in a shped charge configuration can easily penetrate 15mm of armour, nothing new there.
You cannot provide any informsation whatsoever that an exploisve charge won't trigger the exploisve in the armour. It's called sympathetic detonation, the shockwave will be transferred from teh mortar round to teh Armour's explosive. Simple scientific fact, there is no explosive in teh world which is that insensitive.


[edit on 16-7-2006 by rogue1]



posted on Jul, 16 2006 @ 01:39 PM
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Tanks will be with us for a while. It's a natural cycle. Anti tank missiles are not silver bullets, and they are far from making a tank concept obsolete.

All kinds of anti-tank missile defenses already exists, and more are in the pipeline.

Arena, Kontakt, etc already provide protection against modern missiles, and next gen will also protect against sabot perpetrators.

Next logical step is active ECM and direct energy defenses such as microwave and laser. Lasers are already used to confuse missile targeting and to blind chopper crews and their sensors.

T-95 is moving in the right direction. Logically space saved by the unmanned turret will be occupied by a AAA system such as Tunguzka. Such configuration will merge two systems into one and provide nonparallel protection to the MBT from air attacks.

It is clearly the direction the Russians are going in. TOR for medium range SAM cover, T-95 type with Tunguska module, all protected from infantry and RPG crews by BMPT-2 Tank Assistance Combat Vehicle.

This configuration provides multiple levels of protection from ATGMs launched both from and and from the ground.

TOR takes care of the first stage, what ever it misses is taken care by 155mm main gun launched missile as a second stage, third stage is the 9M311 missile of the Tunguska module, fourth stage 4X30mm Tunguska module guns together with the 30s of the BMPT-2, fith stage active ECM, sixth stage thermal/laser smoke grenades, seventh stage Arena APS and eight stage Kaktus ERA.

That is a LOT to go through, especially considering that TOR and 9M311 are DESIGNED to intercept guided weapons of all kinds. That includes cruise missiles, guided missiles and guided bombs.

Such a totally independent mobile group configuration is already capable of more then defending it self, and with added support of BUK or S300, armored group concept is far from being obsolete to modern ATGM.

Further more, there are already concepts like short range rocket propelled flare dispensers to be used in conjunction with smoke dispensers to completely spoof IR fire and forget ATGMs.

TOR in its various models is fully data-linked with other platforms, so is Tunguska. Modernisation of Russian armor is focused on data-linked GPS and FCS integration. That means ALL units, not just SAM and AAA will prioritise targets on the bases of theater wide SA.

That in turn means that even now, TOR units communicate with Tunguska units, along with upgraded models of T80s, BMPT-2s and BMP-3s, thus creating a unique ring of armor protection.

That's not even including data-linked S300, BUK, air and artillery support, so getting close to launch an ATGM will require a major effort, and even when the weapon is released, it has to breach at least 8 levels of defenses before detonating its payload.

Tank era is far from being obsolete, its only the beginning.

BMPT-2
www.modelpoint.us...
www.warfare.ru...





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