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Originally posted by subz
Next time I forward you to a moderator and place you on my ignore list.
Try to stick to the topic eh?
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Originally posted by subz
From ATS T&C
2.) You will not behave in an abusive and/or hateful manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone.
Next time I forward you to a moderator and place you on my ignore list.
Try to stick to the topic eh?
Originally posted by subz
I have to respectfully disagree Seekerof. Not reaffirming the treaty is not the same as withdrawing from the treaty. The treaty is quite clear on the process of withdrawal from it.
"The Chinese space program is a military program using military hardware and overseen by the military," said Charles Vick, space policy analyst for the Washington, D.C.-based Federation of American Scientists.
For now, NASA can only watch the growing relationship from afar. A March 2000 e-mail obtained by Florida Today through the Freedom of Information Act revealed one way NASA Administrator Dan Goldin is learning about the growing friendship between the massive neighbors. The document was obtained through an appeal process after NASA first denied its release.
"When I was in Moscow last week, there was a public announcement by Deputy Prime Minister Ilya Klebanov that Russia and China are negotiating a deal for Russia to develop a manned space craft for China, and for joint use of Russia's GLONASS satellite navigation system," Jesco von Puttkamer said in his e-mail.
China sought Russian help in 1995 to jumpstart its manned space program. The Chinese Shenzhou spacecraft is a larger version of the Russian Soyuz.
China wants to launch its first astronauts next year, then build a space station. The communist program also calls for an eventual moon base. The third unmanned test of the Chinese space capsule could launch within weeks.
Complicating things further is a tense relationship between Beijing and Washington that shows no signs of changing. Russia and China have condemned U.S. plans to build a missile defense system and have stepped up relations throughout the two governments. Both have pledged to build up and improve their own nuclear weapons stockpiles.
Human rights issues and China's refusal to stop selling ballistic missiles to other nations keeps NASA from inviting the Chinese into the space station program.
Originally posted by Muaddib
Any intentions they have for a space program has everything to do with the militarization of space.
Vick said Chinese astronauts orbiting in a space station could make up for the country's lack of photographic spy satellites.
"I would expect them to be doing nothing else other than photo-reconnaissance and intelligence gathering," Vick said. "They will do some civilian and scientific work, that will be the front."
Rick Fisher, China analyst for the Washington, D.C.-based Jamestown Foundation, said China's People's Liberation Army will look to the manned program to make its missiles and rockets more reliable and to test electronics that would be used in new spy satellites.
"For its propaganda purposes, the manned space program is worth its weight in gold to the communist party," he said. "The manned space program is first and foremost a nationalist tool, which the communist party will use to strengthen its nationalistic credentials."
Statements from the Chinese government signal similar sentiments.
The government issued its space program blueprint in November 2000, showing the nation regards the effort much the way the Soviets and Americans saw their own during the Cold War: as an avenue to show off technical prowess.
Originally posted by Jamuhn
Well, if you consider building spy satellites a militarization of space, than the US is way ahead!
In October 1956, Mao Tse-tung ordered the start of China’s space program. Four years later, on 5 November 1960, China launched its first rocket, becoming the fourth country, behind Germany, the United States, and the Soviet Union, to enter space. Today China routinely launches space satellites for Western companies, including US corporations, and is increasing its share of the global space launch market. But the Chinese also use the technology and assistance gained in foreign ventures for PRC military applications. And a principal organization in China’s space effort, the China Great Wall Industry Corporation, has been identified by the US State Department as engaging in missile technology proliferation activities.
Originally posted by Jamuhn
Here's some more propaganda to back up your own:
Originally posted by Jamuhn
Obviously the weaponization of space is inevitable, but as of now, it seems the US is the only one expressing interest in immediate weaponization.
The newest battlefield for China will be in space. From a defensive standpoint China is seeking to block the United States from developing its own anti-satellite weapons and space-based ballistic missile defense systems. Beijing and Moscow, through diplomatic channels, have introduced a draft United Nations Treaty that would ban conventional and non-nuclear weapons in space. Meanwhile, from an offensive standpoint, China is developing its own weapons. The People’s Liberation Army (PLA) is experimenting with directed energy weapons that can kill satellites and in theoretical research is considering particle beam weapons that can engage missiles in flight. The Chinese military is also considering the use of “piggy-back satellites” and “micro-satellites” that can be used as kinetic energy weapons to destroy enemy satellites or spacecraft, or can attach themselves to enemy satellites to jam them.
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In the view of People’s Liberation Army defense experts, “whoever has control (or ‘hegemony’) over space, will also have the ability to help or hinder and affect ‘ground’ mobility and air, sea and space combat.”[xvii] And while calling for the “peace-loving nations and peoples of the world to oppose the “weaponization of space,” The PLA continues to “heed the call of Communist Party Central Military Commission Chairman Jiang Zemin for China to become a strong military technologically.
Originally posted by Jamuhn
But, instead of of spreading false accusations, just tell the truth.
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Originally posted by Muaddib
You don't think the Chinese have spy satellites in space?
There are some US corporations that even have deals with the Chinese to launch their satellites...
Propaganda?... how exactly is it propaganda?
Really?
Excerpted from.
www.heritage.org...
Military thinkers in China are probably correct--the weaponization of space is inevitable. The communications and reconnaissance satellites in orbit have already militarized space. Probably the most effective global ballistic missile defense system that could be deployed will be dependent on space-based interceptors and lasers. The outlines of Beijing’s draft treaty prohibiting the deployment of weapons in space and attacks on space bodies is merely a delaying action to limit the effectiveness of United States ballistic missile defense programs.
What in the world are you talking about? Where did i not tell the truth? Care to enlighten us where I lied and provide evidence?...
Originally posted by Muaddib
Any intentions they have for a space program has everything to do with the militarization of space.
"For its propaganda purposes, the manned space program is worth its weight in gold to the communist party," he said. "The manned space program is first and foremost a nationalist tool, which the communist party will use to strengthen its nationalistic credentials."
Statements from the Chinese government signal similar sentiments.
The government issued its space program blueprint in November 2000, showing the nation regards the effort much the way the Soviets and Americans saw their own during the Cold War: as an avenue to show off technical prowess.
Originally posted by Muaddib
So the Chinese are not communists? How in the world is that propaganda?
Do i think for myself? sure i do.
How can you not see it... the PLA it's the military, the Chinese have no intentions of only having a peaceful use for space...
If the US military was making a military space agency, like the chinese, you think they wouldn't be trying to weaponize space, or to use this program for any military use?....
It seems that you are the one not thinking clearly here Jamuh.
Originally posted by the_oleneo
Subbie, your anti-American rhetoric is known to be abusive and hateful, with the tendency to harass, threaten or attack pro-American sentiments here.
they should be working together for the betterment of the whole human race.
Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe
What a pity that countries can't spend a tenth of this effort on making their citizen's lives better. Imagine the US and it's allies vs. Russia and China and their allies, vs. the European Union, vs. African Nations, etc. all desperately trying to be the world leader in public health, education, standard of living, human rights, etc. What if the military and black budgets were used to fund hospitals and drug research, entice the world's leading minds to our universities, and fund research on clean energy?
What a concept. Nah, I'm just kidding myself. It's much better to rule the world by force and fear of reprisals. Then if anybody starts to look too smart or well fed, we can just kill them.
Originally posted by subz
I'd like to see you prove any of that rant the_oleneo, I really would. You seem to think you can post sweeping statements like that with no evidence. Well try and sully my reputation as much as you like but until you can back it up with evidence I respectfully ask you to keep your accusation to yourself.
Originally posted by subz
The NPT is also a relic of the Cold War eh? Or what about the Geneva Convention? People want to see both those scrapped. Why not? If we can scrap one treaty why should another treaty be valid? The ABM treaty was scrapped for the very same reasons some advocate the scrapping of the OST. Why is it that people can claim that their governments are more trustworthy than any one elses. Absolute power corrupts and power corrupts absolutely. That applies to dicatatorships AND democracies.
Space weapons report prompts evasive moves
Bush spokesman says new policy is likely to focus on protecting U.S. systems in orbit
The White House distanced itself Wednesday from a report that it was considering developing new weapons in space, but left open the possibility of future programs to protect U.S. satellites.
The somewhat contradictory stance came as the Bush administration works to finish a draft of a new national space policy. Spokesman Scott McClellan said the policy would take into account "the threats and challenges" to maintaining U.S. space capabilities.
"The policy that we're talking about is not looking at weaponizing space," McClellan said. "I expect it's likely to continue to emphasize the sovereignty of space systems and the right of free passage of those space systems."
www.chron.com...