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It Happened Once – Could it Happen Again?

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posted on May, 20 2005 @ 12:37 AM
If ever there were a reason for the world population to be concerned, the reworking of the Patriot Act by the US would appear to be one good reason. I am not an American and I cannot claim to be an authority on the subject. What I am however is an avid reader and researcher and I see parallels with the past that scare the hell out of me. If I were an American I would be watching this very carefully. The following appraisal of the act was not written by me.

To quote the proposed articles of “Patriot Act 2” the following provisions are likely to be pushed through congress;

Whereas the First Patriot Act only gutted the First, Third, Fourth and Fifth Amendments, and seriously damaged the Seventh and the Tenth, the Second Patriot Act reorganizes the entire Federal government as well as many areas of state government, under the dictatorial control of the Justice Department, the Office of Homeland Security and the FEMA NORTHCOM military command. The Domestic Security Enhancement Act 2003, also known as the Second Patriot Act is by its very structure the definition of dictatorship. I challenge all Americans to study the new Patriot Act and to compare it to the Constitution, Bill of Rights and Declaration of Independence. Ninety percent of the act has nothing to do with terrorism and is instead a giant Federal power-grab with tentacles reaching into every facet of our society. It strips American citizens of all of their rights and grants the government and its private agents total immunity. Here is a quick thumbnail sketch of just some of the draconian measures encapsulated within this tyrannical legislation:

SECTION 501 (Expatriation of Terrorists) expands the Bush administration's "enemy combatant" definition to all American citizens who "may" have violated any provision of

Section 802 of the first Patriot Act. (Section 802 is the new definition of domestic terrorism, and the definition is "any action that endangers human life that is a violation of any Federal or State law.") Section 501 of the second Patriot Act directly connects to

Section 125 of the same act. The Justice Department boldly claims that the incredibly broad Section 802 of the First USA Patriot Act isn't broad enough and that a new, unlimited definition of terrorism is needed.

Under Section 501 a US citizen engaging in lawful activities can be grabbed off the street and thrown into a van never to be seen again. The Justice Department states that they can do this because the person "had inferred from conduct" that they were not a US citizen. Remember Section 802 of the First USA Patriot Act states that any violation of Federal or State law can result in the "enemy combatant" terrorist designation.

SECTION 201 of the second Patriot Act makes it a criminal act for any member of the government or any citizen to release any information concerning the incarceration or whereabouts of detainees. It also states that law enforcement does not even have to tell the press who they have arrested and they never have to release the names.

SECTION 301 and 306 (Terrorist Identification Database) set up a national database of "suspected terrorists" and radically expand the database to include anyone associated with suspected terrorist groups and anyone involved in crimes or having supported any group designated as "terrorist." These sections also set up a national DNA database for anyone on probation or who has been on probation for any crime, and orders State governments to collect the DNA for the Federal government.

SECTION 312 gives immunity to law enforcement engaging in spying operations against the American people and would place substantial restrictions on court injunctions against Federal violations of civil rights across the board. SECTION 101 will designate individual terrorists as foreign powers and again strip them of all rights under the "enemy combatant" designation.

SECTION 102 states clearly that any information gathering, regardless of whether or not those activities are illegal, can be considered to be clandestine intelligence activities for a foreign power. This makes news gathering illegal.

SECTION 103 allows the Federal government to use wartime martial law powers domestically and internationally without Congress declaring that a state of war exists.

SECTION 106 is bone-chilling in its straightforwardness. It states that broad general warrants by the secret FSIA court (a panel of secret judges set up in a star chamber system that convenes in an undisclosed location) granted under the first Patriot Act are not good enough. It states that government agents must be given immunity for carrying out searches with no prior court approval. This section throws out the entire Fourth Amendment against unreasonable searches and seizures.

SECTION 109 allows secret star chamber courts to issue contempt charges against any individual or corporation who refuses to incriminate themselves or others. This sections annihilate the last vestiges of the Fifth Amendment.

SECTION 110 restates that key police state clauses in the first Patriot Act were not sunsetted and removes the five year sunset clause from other subsections of the first Patriot Act. After all, the media has told us: "this is the New America. Get used to it. This is forever."

SECTION 111 expands the definition of the "enemy combatant" designation. SECTION 122 restates the government's newly announced power of "surveillance without a court order."

SECTION 123 restates that the government no longer needs warrants and that the investigations can be a giant dragnet-style sweep described in press reports about the Total Information Awareness Network. One passage reads, "thus the focus of domestic surveillance may be less precise than that directed against more conventional types of crime." *Note: Over and over again, in subsection after subsection, the second Patriot Act states that its new Soviet-type powers will be used to fight international terrorism, domestic terrorism and other types of crimes. Of course the government has already announced in Section 802 of the first USA Patriot act that any crime is considered domestic terrorism.

SECTION 126 grants the government the right to mine the entire spectrum of public and private sector information from bank records to educational and medical records. This is the enacting law to allow ECHELON and the Total Information Awareness Network to break down any and all walls of privacy. The government states that they must look at everything to "determine" if individuals or groups might have a connection to terrorist groups. As you can now see, you are guilty until proven innocent.

SECTION 127 allows the government to takeover coroners' and medical examiners' operations whenever they see fit. See how this is like Bill Clinton's special medical examiner he had in Arkansas that ruled that people had committed suicide when their arms and legs had been cut off.

SECTION 128 allows the Federal government to place gag orders on Federal and State Grand Juries and to take over the proceedings. It also disallows individuals or organizations to even try to quash a Federal subpoena. So now defending yourself will be a terrorist action.

SECTION 129 destroys any remaining whistleblower protection for Federal agents.

SECTION 202 allows corporations to keep secret their activities with toxic biological, chemical or radiological materials.

SECTION 205 allows top Federal officials to keep all their financial dealings secret, and anyone investigating them can be considered a terrorist. This should be very useful for Dick Cheney to stop anyone investigating Haliburton.

SECTION 303 sets up national DNA database of suspected terrorists. The database will also be used to "stop other unlawful activities." It will share the information with state, local and foreign agencies for the same purposes.

SECTION 311 federalizes your local police department in the area of information sharing.

SECTION 313 provides liability protection for businesses, especially big businesses that spy on their customers for Homeland Security, violating their privacy agreements. It goes on to say that these are all preventative measures - has anyone seen Minority Report? This is the access hub for the Total Information Awareness Network.

SECTION 321 authorizes foreign governments to spy on the American people and to share information with foreign governments.

SECTION 322 removes Congress from the extradition process and allows officers of the Homeland Security complex to extradite American citizens anywhere they wish. It also allows Homeland Security to secretly take individuals out of foreign countries.

SECTION 402 is titled "Providing Material Support to Terrorism." The section reads that there is no requirement to show that the individual even had the intent to aid terrorists.

SECTION 403 expands the definition of weapons of mass destruction to include any activity that affects interstate or foreign commerce.

SECTION 404 makes it a crime for a terrorist or "other criminals" to use encryption in the commission of a crime.

SECTION 408 creates "lifetime parole" (basically, slavery) for a whole host of crimes.

SECTION 410 creates no statute of limitations for anyone that engages in terrorist actions or supports terrorists. Remember: any crime is now considered terrorism under the first Patriot Act.

SECTION 411 expands crimes that are punishable by death. Again, they point to Section 802 of the first Patriot Act and state that any terrorist act or support of terrorist act can result in the death penalty.

SECTION 421 increases penalties for terrorist financing. This section states that any type of financial activity connected to terrorism will result to time in prison and $10-50,000 fines per violation.

SECTIONS 427 sets up asset forfeiture provisions for anyone engaging in terrorist activities.

I started off underlining those sections that caused me greatest concern. I gave up because EVERY single section as listed above has a catastrophic impact on the freedom and liberties of American citizens and anyone else that visits American for that matter. As the researcher who prepared the above pointed out the Patriot Act dwarfs all police state legislation in modern world history. ---

What can we learn from the past as this relates to our possible future? Throughout history we have been beset by wars and after each one there is a belief that this will be the last, but it never is. Often history clearly remembers the act of war, but we forget about the cause, the symptoms and in forgetting about the cause therein lies the greatest danger for mankind. We become complacent and we ignore the signals. Now of course the ‘super’ powers and in particular American promote the terrorist theory and the changes to the legislation are all about stamping this out. But is terrorism such a big threat that the civil liberties of the nation have to be eroded? If it isn’t what is the real motive behind the proposed changes? Lets us reflect for a moment what is being proposed.

Section 802 of the first Patriot Act. (Section 802 is the new definition of domestic terrorism, and the definition is "any action that endangers human life that is a violation of any Federal or State law.") Section 501 of the second Patriot Act directly connects to

Section 125 of the same act. The Justice Department boldly claims that the incredibly broad Section 802 of the First USA Patriot Act isn't broad enough and that a new, unlimited definition of terrorism is needed.

So what lesson can we learn from the past with respect to what is happening now? Let us go back to pre-Nazi Germany. The citizens of Germany felt confident that they lived in a democratic society. They had their rights and their freedoms. After all it wasn’t that many years since many had been embroiled in the First World War and everyone vowed there wouldn’t be another so why should they suspect there would.

Within the duration, of what is in the history of the world, a short span of time things started to change. All of the signs were there, just as they are now. In the case of Nazi Germany, the blind hatred of one race by another the manipulation and control of the masses. Blind hatred followed by a war-fever pitch and the erratic push for total domination. If you opposed what was happening you were taken away incarcerated and eventually killed. Thousands of Germans were whipped into a total frenzy of hatred. Other world leaders witnessed what was happening, as did academics and many German citizens themselves. They were branded lunatics or in the case of Germany’s own - SILENCED.

Those who lived in Germany and who were concerned by what they were witnessing either cowered in fear or were in denial. They stood by and watched while systematically their freedom, their rights and their possessions were taken away and by then it was too late. Many joined the Nazi party in the misguided belief that this would save them – join the oppressor the persecutor before you become the persecuted. Others actively in joining the Nazi Party became the spies. In an effort to save themselves they would spy on and report others knowing what the outcome would be. This in turn led to total distrust.

What had we learnt? Nothing. Within a few short years the memory of the ‘great war’ had faded, the lessons of the past forgotten the hatred the greed resurfaced, as history proves time and again. The attention span of the public is short, and memories are even shorter.

Today the global bully is the pillar of democracy, the land of the free the super power of peace. Today the global bully is America blindly followed by the United Kingdom and lessor countries such as my own. The message that we hear over and over is one of we are fighting for peace and freedom, whilst systemically our own and millions of others, freedoms, rights and liberties are being diminish

With Nazi Germany the hate was focused on the German Jews who were viewed as tainted and subclass, which spread to Jews across Europe but this was just a smoke screen. Now it is the ‘War on Terrorism’ and the target of this is largely the Muslims. Once again the creation of a suspect cause, leading to the deliberate vilification of people based on race with the real objective of global domination. We go about our lives in the hope that sense will prevail. History shows us that is doesn’t. We hear people say – but yes – ‘they’ are only changing laws to protect us and each time our privacy is invaded the old catch-cry of ‘but if we have nothing to hide we have nothing to fear’ - this is the voice of denial. As one country after another is threatened or attacked we are told it is in response to terrorists attacks or potential attacks. Yet, at the same time the oppressor is very selective in their desire to achieve peace and freedom as they turn a blind eye to the mass slaughter in so many other countries. But lets face it a poor farmer in a small South African nation being accused of terrorism doesn’t provide the same publicity opportunities as a Muslim (who also happens to be a small farmer) from say Afghanistan. We standby and say nothing for we are secure in our own little world.

It is worth mentioning that those most prone to supporting the senseless wars of aggression are those with Jewish and Christian traditions. It is easier for us hate someone of another religion whom we see as the aggressor not registering of course that it is the other way around. Lets get them before they get us. As someone pointed out recently - like the Nazis’, many Americans think that God is clearly on their side, and that whatever they want as the, “superior race” is what the world should immediately give, or face the consequences of war and mass death. Like early 1940’s Germany, America imagines that it can both make the rules by which the world should live, and simultaneously break them whenever it is convenient. The Brits and many, many others ably bolster America in this belief.

We have seen it all before the tactics used by despots throughout history - that of propagating false or created threats to ‘legalise’ the mass murder of millions, to justify the removal of people rights, to eliminate or change legal protection and the capricious cancellation of international treaties. The cancellation of which most certainly leads to economic disaster for many and control for others. As history repeats itself we see the balance move from one to the other as we forget the lessons of the past. So the upholders of truth and morale virtue in time themselves become the aggressors and the fascists, through the holding of those very same corrupt and greedy values of, “my benefit before yours” mentality. Through their fear and their bigoted self-interest they create yet again the repetition of the catastrophes of history, in the name of nationalism and self-protection.

So back to where I started and that was to ask the question what lesson can we learn from the past with respect to what is happening now? Well let us reflect for a moment. In Nazi Germany dictatorship started with the public persecution of intellectuals and those of opposing views with respect to politics. The government passed legislation which increasingly made dissent of all kinds a grave offence against the, “best interests of the people”. The start of divide and conquer and control and all in the name of “nationalism”. This meant that the dictatorship was now legalised. After this there was the menacing build-up of both military and domestic police forces to “enforce” the new “regulations” and stifle the “activist” or for that matter anyone “unpatriotic” enough to voice any noteworthy opposition to government policy and spend. At the end the Nazi’s engaged in the wholesale arrest, incarceration and finally slaughter of millions of Jews and anyone else who opposed them.

What is the relevance of this part of our history to the modern day? These are exactly the trends we see set in motion through such legislature as the Patriot Act, the Department of Homeland Security, the gutting of the national treasury for the sake of private, corporate benefit, widespread government corruption, utter contempt for real democratic process, the rigging of elections, the huge enlargement of the prison system and population, the continuous erosion of civil liberties and the due process of law. Worst of all, we find that the American public and most people of the western world has become too brainwashed by the media, to understand what is really going on, or which is more frightening really care. They just don’t see what is happening right in front of them.

Additionally, the current U.S. government serves to;

Continually erode all environmental protections and international treaties for the sake of corporate profits.

Supply arms and weapons of mass destruction to countries around the world. American is the biggest supplier of these materials the world has ever known. This also includes supplying arms to countries they are now at war with

Threaten the international community with war or economic measures in the event that they seek to act in any way that is contrary to Washington’s demands, through the use of “pre-emptive” war, nuclear weapons and trade sanctions. Recent dealings with NATO and the UN prove this point beyond a doubt.

Bribe foreign officials with the tax money of American citizens, so as to achieve their political and imperial aims, such as in the case of the “foreign aid package” now being offered to Turkey, in exchange for its’ compliance as an Iraq battle-front.

Usurp and otherwise install puppet regimes throughout Central and South America, for the sake of exploiting those country’s natural resources.

Silence dissenting voices through the cancellation of funding

Pass legislation which is transparently geared to give free handouts, such as enormous tax breaks and legal loopholes to big business, even in the midst of the biggest national budget crisis in history, while simultaneously forcing states to raise their taxes as a burden to the people.

Impose an increasingly police-state version of martial law, in the huge bloating of “law enforcement” s agencies such as the DEA, Homeland Security, the FBI, the CIA and a whole host of minor agencies, all working to keep the public under their scrutiny and control. In addition to this the United States already has the largest per capita prison population in the world, and there is every indication that they intend to build even more prisons, and imprison even more people.

Spend by far the most money for the military than any country ever known, and whose total exceeds the military budgets of the next 12 largest countries in the world in total. This expense is staggeringly in excess of 500 billion dollars a year, and continuously growing.

Create laws that are designed to be followed only by the great mass of the working public. These same laws do not apply to the rich, nor do they apply to the United States government. This government has made it perfectly clear that it is bound by no laws at all, or only those which are deemed momentarily convenient, for the sake of domestic or international advantage.

Creating programs like “TIPS” which encourage people to spy on each other, to report any “suspicious behaviour”. This where the guy who reads your electric meter can look into your window and report you for having politically incorrect books on your bookshelf, or where the person sitting next to you on an airplane doesn’t like the comment you just made about the government, or that you simply “look nervous”.

So perhaps rather than talking of World War III as the global war, it should be in the internal war. This is a war that we MUST win if we are to take back our freedom, our rights and liberties. A war waged against ignorance, self-interest, hatred and division. A war waged against big business that exploits the less fortunate. A war waged against the so called leaders who only serve themselves and lead us not down the path of freedom and peace but into suppression and poverty and worst still possible destruction. This is not a war that we will win sticking our heads in the sand and turning a blind-eye. This is not a war we will win remaining silent.

Let us remember the lessons of the past. It may not be too late.

*added link to source*

[edit on 20-5-2005 by dbates]

posted on May, 20 2005 @ 12:50 AM
Good heavens THIS is a FABULOUS post! well written and researched!

Thank you for educating me.

WAY ABOVE to Lady of the Lake...........great job!

I have read this, and am heading for bed......scared about out of my mind now tyvm.............

Any Canadians out there willing to adopt a 42 yr old woman and her 12 yr old son who want to ex patriate??????

hey I can bait a hook and clean a fish............

posted on May, 20 2005 @ 01:26 AM
Well i voted this post for post of the month . After reading this it sure is scary stuff , glad im not in the us , this also goes to show why many ppl i know over here in germany think the same way and will probably never ever visit the us. Imagine no wrong doing yet they still cart you away never to be found again.

Imagine if they start using those laws

Section 501

posted on May, 20 2005 @ 01:27 AM

You have voted Lady of the Lake for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month.

You deserve all my votes this month, great post!

This IS scary. I live in the U.S. but I'm English and thinking VERY hard about moving back. BUT is Britain gonna go down a similar path?

posted on May, 20 2005 @ 02:02 AM
Hello Lady of the Lake. I voted you a Way Above for this effort. Great to read. I also took some liberties with what you have done.

I hesitate to post a quote, as I have had my hand slapped twice for lengthy/utterly worthless Excessive Quoting (Sorry Mods... )

However, I sent the following to my Senator and Congressmen with your post attached. Thanks for all your obviously incredible effort.

Dear Sir,

I know you are an extremely busy man, and I hesitate to bother you, but am finding that I am questioning the positions and actions of our Federal Government.

I am enclosing a rather lengthy post from a website I frequent. It is written by a non-American, but that person feels that our Patriot Act "Follies" are going to begin impacting foreign visitors, perhaps most severely.

I would ask that you read this, if you have a little time, and then mayhap tell me what part of this does not frighten you, at least a little bit.
I am not entirely sure that Patriot Act II is working in the best interest of us, the common citizens of the US.

Thank you for your consideration, and please read below. It will take a few minutes, but I would love to have comments from someone in the know.
Dan XXXXXX (Name omitted to protect the guilty on this forum.

posted on May, 20 2005 @ 02:08 AM

Originally posted by ANOK

This IS scary. I live in the U.S. but I'm English and thinking VERY hard about moving back. BUT is Britain gonna go down a similar path?

Yes, I think they will in fact I think they have started. I also see similar things happening in Australia. Our country is being sold out from under us. Our freedoms are being slowly but surely taken away.

posted on May, 20 2005 @ 02:28 AM
patriate act II does make one question weather it may become dangerous to travel to the states. i guess all will have to weigh the benfets of such travel against the risks that will now be taken when traveling there. it is most unfortunate that america the good is rapidly becomeing america the dangerous.

posted on May, 20 2005 @ 03:23 AM
Hasnt this bill already passed in the senate? Just recently?

I'm trying to verify this, but just yesterday Drudgereport was talking about it.. Now the report is "gone"..

I'll keep looking..

Guess I was wrong.. Drudge linked this article:

Then swiftly removed it..

[edit on 5/20/2005 by QuietSoul]

posted on May, 20 2005 @ 04:07 AM

Originally posted by Lady of the Lake

Originally posted by ANOK

This IS scary. I live in the U.S. but I'm English and thinking VERY hard about moving back. BUT is Britain gonna go down a similar path?

Yes, I think they will in fact I think they have started. I also see similar things happening in Australia. Our country is being sold out from under us. Our freedoms are being slowly but surely taken away.

Lady Of The Lake i agree with u

posted on May, 20 2005 @ 04:57 AM
Absolutely GREAT post!

Maybe you should write something about 9/11 and how it changed America and brought the Globalists one step closer to a police state and martial law.

posted on May, 20 2005 @ 05:21 AM

Originally posted by QuietSoul
Hasnt this bill already passed in the senate? Just recently?

This week:

PATRIOT Act Renewal Bill Would Expand FBI Powers . Reuters reports that Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Pat Roberts (R-KS) plans to introduce legislation that would not only reauthorize sunsetting provisions of the USA PATRIOT Act, but also expand the government's investigative powers to permit the FBI to demand health, library, and tax records in intelligence investigations without judicial approval. Today the committee had planned to hold a closed hearing to vote on whether to send the legislation to the Senate floor. The hearing was cancelled, but is expected to be held next week. For more information, see EPIC's USA PATRIOT Act Sunset page. (May 19, 2005)

posted on May, 21 2005 @ 12:24 AM
Is there a way to get to the complete documentation on the Patriot Act 2?

If a New World Order comes about, I guess they would want to take over the whole world.

Lady of the Lake, what kinds of things are happening in Australia related to freedom? I'm trying to get a reality on what is happening worldwide? We've had silly things like displaying a Christmas tree is becoming a problem.


posted on May, 21 2005 @ 12:32 PM
I'll tell you what, anyone who thinks all's well with America would do well to read about that on (I know that's the source--I'm a regular visitor there).

And if anyone thinks you'd only have to worry if you're a Muslim or look like one, think again.

You know, since I became a conspiracy theorist, I've had less and less time for entertainment. I'm busy educating myself when I'm not taking care of my family.

posted on May, 21 2005 @ 09:20 PM

Originally posted by cybertroyLady of the Lake, what kinds of things are happening in Australia related to freedom? I'm trying to get a reality on what is happening worldwide? We've had silly things like displaying a Christmas tree is becoming a problem.Troy

Cybertroy, these are issues that I feel we should start doing our research on and to determine exactly what this might mean for us.

As you rightly pointed out we have already had the suppression of our religious heritage placed under pressure. Recent events with respect to dress code in schools as challenged by a young Muslim teenager (and the subsequent decision surrounding that challenge) has already highlighted that minorities are usurping their supremacy supported by our government. Our Australian culture is under treat. We no longer have the same rights as the indigenous population and now the Muslim population. We are no longer free to express our religious beliefs for fear of offending others.

The de-industrialisation of Australia by international interests is removing forever ownership and control of our country. This is ably promoted and supported by government. This also includes the mass selling off government business enterprise. These are assets owned and paid for by taxpayers. We have no right of reply, we lose the asset to private enterprise (often for a fraction of the real value) and then we pay inflated prices for less service. That really makes a lot of sense. It also means that systematically our ability to invest in our infrastructure in the future is being eliminated. In essence removing our freedom for self determination.

The proliferation of cameras under the guise of our protection should be a concern to all. The banking system and the hidden agendas of large money grabbing banks an example the NAB, reporting record profits yet at the same time announcing the lose of another 2000 jobs. The banks own us.

posted on May, 21 2005 @ 11:24 PM
Sounds like you may be having the same religious issues we are having. I respect another mans religion. If a man want to celebrate Hanaka, fine with me. All it took was a few gripes, and Christmas trees and the word "Christ" was a problem. Does it not have a biblical prophesy kind of nature to it? (Attack on Christmas and the word Christ) I'm wondering if this religious thing is happening worldwide, and is it just with Christianity?

And let's name off the crazy things that are happening simultaniously.

- Crazy weather
- Attack on Christmas Trees and the word Christ
- Patriot acts (possibly altering the constitution)
- "Legal" drug pushing commercials by the drug companies (it's on tv commercials)
- Melting ice caps
- Confused animals
- etc.

What does all this stuff mean? Prophesy, maybe? Just a crazy bunch of things happening at once?

I do feel whatever is the case, man is not bound by prophesies of the past, but is capable of making his own decisions on how his life should be, and can create his own future. For a man to blindly accept "fate" is giving up his own controll over his own future. I feel that we can do better than that.


posted on May, 22 2005 @ 04:58 AM
Lady of the Lake you said Australia is selling much of its companies to foreign nations, could you please explain what you mean/what companies are going.

I know our Government sold our main telecom Telstra.

posted on May, 22 2005 @ 07:14 AM
hmmm......about this blurb

Lady of the Lake
The proliferation of cameras under the guise of protection
should be a concern to all.
............... ................. ........ ......The banks own us.

that word 'guise' is totally a loaded word.

all those cameras are fine by me, if i don't want recognized i'll buy
costumes, switch license plates, wear contacts, silicon faux-fingerprints
or any number of ways to outwit surveillence ops.

in-the-meantime, i will have proof & evidence for my alibi's,
Rodney King is probably an advocate for camera use too? / still?.

- - - - - there's a whole can-of-worms in there, & i'm just a 60 second man....

as for the Patriot Act 2 meme/post:

I reckon all new laws are received as confining-restraining-prohibitive , to more than a few SomeOnes !!

I prefer to look at the whole PatriotAct 1&2, as belated and 'same as usual'

the same-old-same-old
might be better understood if we recognize that
there is THE LETTER of the Law..........and there is THE SPIRIT of the Law.

and the PA 1&2, and future riders & ammendments,
will eventually find its own EQUILIBRIUM in our society.

This neo-con, dominionist, salvationist, far-right administration & regime
is only a passing phase in the character of this democracy (republic)
Maybe by next election cycle, the POSITIVE-TECHNOLOGY zealots will have seized the reigns of power from the Fundamentalists & born-agains.

me, heck this is therapy, its not a vocation or advocation or a springboard

posted on May, 22 2005 @ 04:31 PM

Originally posted by aelphaeis_mangarae
Lady of the Lake you said Australia is selling much of its companies to foreign nations, could you please explain what you mean/what companies are going.I know our Government sold our main telecom Telstra.

Foreign companies now own a very large percentage of our mining, agriculture and utilities, even traditional companies such as Arnott’s (manufacturers of biscuits, among other things) are owned by Campbell’s. Icon companies such as Dryza A Bone the maker of Australia’s traditional clothing is now UK owned. Asian based residents are scooping Real Estate up in a big way particularly in Queensland.

American companies own large tracks of our beef and cotton industry Even the funeral industry in Australia is by and large owned and operated by American companies. I could go on an on. The next big test will be the sell off of Telstra, which is partly privatised.

posted on May, 22 2005 @ 04:38 PM

Originally posted by St Udio
hmmm......about this blurb

that at word 'guise' is totally a loaded word.

all those cameras are fine by me, if i don't want recognized i'll buy
costumes, switch license plates, wear contacts, silicon faux-fingerprints
or any number of ways to outwit surveillence ops.

Yes, it is a loaded word. Take a look back in history and you will see clearly that often 'controls' that are introduced under the pretext of protecting mankind have been used at a later stage against mankind. Use against us also to raise revenue in the case of speed cameras.

All is OK whilst whilst we have comfort in our leaders but we are fast approach a time when we need to question on which side they are and I suspect it is often not ours.

"Buyer' be ware. Buy the message that is being given off but you might find we pay a very high price in the future.

//ed to correct BB code//

[edit on 22-5-2005 by DontTreadOnMe]


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