What We Iraqis Want

Well let me see if I have this right: The USA invaded Iraq because:

Justification Truth

1. Saddam had WMD Saddam had no WMD

2. Saddam had a WMD delivery system. Saddam had no delivery syst.

3. Saddam planned 9/11 terrorism. A lie.

4. Saddam was an evil dictator Saddam was their legal Pres.

5. USA invaded to get the oil USA hasn't gotten a drop yet

6. Saddam threatned Israel guilty as charged.


For this crime 100,000 Iraqs died, 1 million Iraqs died under sanctions and 16,000 American soldiers died.

The USA has absolutely no business telling the Iraqs how to do anything. They certainly have even less moral authority speak in terms of government. It is their country, not ours. If Iraqi women want us out, we should leave, now, without further considerations. I don't care about "instability", that is another smoke screen. All that Bush cares about is pleasing god in kissing Israeli ass. This moron honestly believes that he can get to heaven by pleasing Jews. Saddam kissed nobody's ass. Ask yourself one question, which do you respect more?

Originally posted by Syrian Sister
SportyMB

If this were true it would be all over the news from every country.....

No it would not. Since Psy-ops are usually kept secret.

Do you know what Psyops qre?
sweety, Psycological operations...thats what they are...

And they are NOT kept secret. for the most part.

Example and fact, what south korea and allies will use during wartime. bowls of ramen noodles that have labels that say stuff like "come to the south and eat for free".

they have ciggarattes packs with hot nude south korean women on there to show the north how hot they are.

Loud music to piss off and irritate the bad guys.

To sum it all up Psyops can be defined as wartime propoganda....it is operations that are made to influence the enemy to come to your side, give up, whatever.

Yeah if you really think about....CIA/Mossad disguised as insurgents could be Psyops......but by that definition you being on the internet spouting all your trash is a Psyop...same for other side.

Originally posted by Syrian Sister
As for your continued instistance that i go fight in iraq, it is not up to you what i do and what i don't do. At this time, i am more usefull here. At this time.

...as for your continued insistance that the US/Allied Forces stop fighting in iraq, it is not up to you what they do and what they don't do...at this time they believe they are more usefull there. At this time.

Forschung
LOL and you call GWB a moron. Your views are just as moronic as you profess his to be.

lol, I like your pint about Saddam being the legal president LMAO. This maybe because he has either killed or imprisoned his political oppostion. Oh wait, were there any other parties aother than the Ba'ath Party ? DUH.

[edit on 24-5-2005 by rogue1]

Syrian Sister you seem to be buying into and spewing propaganda hook line and sinker which shows 2 traits which I find utterly disgusting in people and a direct threat to the human gene pool (see first quote in sig). I mean even Al-jazeera (spelling?) which is far from a pro-western/US puppet wouldn’t argue some of the allegations/defenses your are uttering. I think Iraqis have a right to fight if they feel oppress by whatever mean they can see fit, as long as they OWN UP TO IT (which they tend to unlike what you are saying) and suffer the consequences both good and bad (they are at least willing to martyr themselves).

You are on the verge of actually elivating these "people" targeting mosque and women and children at least they are willing to put their lives on the line and fight for what they belive in. A western and outspoken female (well girl in your case) like yourself would be a prime target of the governmetn these People you are defending are slaughtering left and right to create.

PS sporty MB
I think she has a very good Idea of what Psy ops is, She's engange in a pretty prolific session of it right now (check out her post through out ATS). People like her whose not even in Iraq is making me yearn for a Sherman's march through the sunni triangle and border areas where most of the these problems are originating from.

[edit on 5/24/2005 by Oblivions void]

SportyMB
, what you described are the far more innocent side of Psy-ops.
Read about the false flags, read about the kind of things the CIA did secretly through out history, the bombs that where planted here and there, the coups that where supported.
You will see, things aren’t as innocent as you imagine.

Forschung

Thankyou for your courage.

alien
It’s not up to me alien, it’s up to iraqies, and iraqies want them out. At this time alien, At this time.

Oblivions void

Your first mistake is in thinking that i like or even watch Al Jazeera. Assumptions are where most mistakes are born, don'tcha know.
Al Jazeera is an NWO piece of crap.

I live in australia, and so i am only privy to propganda of people who are pro-US. If you are claiming i am brainwashed, why have i not been brainwashed by that propoganda? Perhaps it is me who can see clearly from where i stand, perhaps it is you who has been indoctrinated, ay?

[edit on 24-5-2005 by Syrian Sister]

wow i think i've found a winner here

cia/mossad behind the insurgency
al-jazeera (spelling again) nwo plot…

the more insight we get into your ideas the more they unravel and schizophrenic they get, at this point you’re a more of a disservice to insurgent propaganda, you seem more like a plant to discredit them at this point. There is plenty to harp and complain about the US Iraqi mess without reaching at straws and making mountains out of atoms and molecules (moles would be an exaggeration in your case).

Well, Mossad is arming kurdish insurgents (against the interests of their close ally, turkey, but who cares) since a couple of years now. Also, the CIA was involved in planning the (unsuccesful) kurdish/shiite insurgency against Saddam Hussein, in which probably 200.000 iraqis who believed the US would liberate them died. So, yes, Mossad and CIA have close ties to the iraqi insurgency (as they have to the Taleban). The MI6 instigated an (unsuccesful) arab insurgency in Iran, and the Mossad/CIA have close ties to the MEK looney-bin.

My point however, is that we should stop speaking about "democracy" in Iraq or Afghanistan. We all now it's all a pack of lies. The US can hardly be described as democratic (ex: newsweek blackmail story, rigged elections, supreme court), and the same goes for Afghanistan (UN reported failure to achieve democratic standards during the election) or for Iraq (UN reported the same thing, one thirds of the population were barred from voting (sunnis), and the CIA has created a secret police (Mokhabarat) that is not under governement control). Also how does the thought wander your mind Iran is not a democratic country ? Iran has free and equal elections, obvious loonies and CIA agents can't run for presidency of course , but people can choose between secular and conservative politicians, a right they did not have before the islamic revolution where again, a US puppet dictatorship was violently crushing all opposition.

Also, i'm sorry to see US military propaganda repeated on this board : Saddam did not perform any ethnical cleansing. He killed many people during his anti-insurgency campaigns (insurgencies that were fostered by the CIA, hence undemocratic), and he killed many iranians during the US-serving Iran-Iraq war. Under their (CIA's) strategical counselling and using their satellite pinpoint intelligence, he delivered chemical weapons on the iranian human waves, as a means of last resort. War crimes seem to be a distinctive sign of US involvement somewhere.

What else can be brought against Saddam ? His political crimes ? Now that the lies about monstrous raping-robots, supertorture rooms, particularly sadist secret police, and the overly ridiculous tales about iraqi soldiers raping kuwaiti babies (film material courtesy of the MI6) have been debunked and that the avergae US soldier has proven to be far a worse abuser than Saddam's feared secret police, the couple of thousand political prisoners of the baathist regime look ridiculous.

What else have you got ? I would be interested in a complete list of lies circulated in the US about Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan. Where do that disinformation come from ? Your media ?






[edit on 24-5-2005 by Moretti]

what you described are the far more innocent side of Psy-ops.

No. what I descibed was Psyops...straight up examples. Your Mossad/CIA theory (if that) is not not form of Psyop in anyway.

From DoD military terms

(DOD) Planned operations to convey selected information and indicators to foreign audiences to influence their emotions, motives, objective reasoning, and ultimately the behavior of foreign governments, organizations, groups, and individuals. The purpose of psychological operations is to induce or reinforce foreign attitudes and behavior favorable to the originator's objectives. Also called PSYOP. See also overt peacetime psychological operations programs; perception management.

Stress where it says "Planned operations to convey selected information and indicators "....it does not say to convey bullets and bombs. Indicators and information, as I said before..leaflets, brochures, radio, music, hygeine items with a message on them, food with messgsges written on them......And most of this is done by the masses, airdrops and disbursing, ofcourse there are other methods..these are most used. for the most part Psyops ate mant to be non-violent and most of the time are directed to civilians and low level combatants (thats where the masses come from).

Maybe CIA/Mossad bombings and bullets are considered to be Psyops in the Koran...or in the Jihad's guide to terrorism for beginners..but not the rest of the world.



[edit on 24/5/2005 by SportyMB]

What you've just been describing is really the most innocent side of psy-ops (another terminology is agit-prop), food with messages on it, mickey mouse hiding in the breakfast cereals, lol. The more insidious side would be things like provocating a terrorist attack, agitation/instigation of a insurgency, or stirring sectarian hatred (ex: us attempts to stir shia/sunni civil war in iraq, divide and conquer) these are also psy-ops, with a lot of blood in their hand. Psy-Ops can also include assassinations and framing in another party in order to create a war f.ex. , or the blackmail/influence of regime-critical journalists in the US. The currently most sadly reknowned case of us/israeli psy ops are probably the systematic lies and demonization against muslims, that lead to the "war on terrorism".


[edit on 24-5-2005 by Moretti]

Moretti, you're right, I agree.....but CIA/Mossad agents in disguise as insurgents (and there are many of them) would not be considered as psyops. why? because if that were true...it would be as obvious as the sky is blue and would not have the desired effect. Because people, all Iraqis and US troops would have figured it out by now....people are stupid but not that stupid.

What about all the US troops over there?....they would have noticed by now if the resistance were not Iraqis/muslims/arabs.....And im sure at least one out of the many thousands of americans there would have already spoke up on TV, CNN, the todays show, oprah..something....

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
ECK, are you saying that sodomizing a prisoner with a broomstick is an act that has been commited and sanctioned by the administration? This is something that is factual, and not just an opinion of the author?

It is an act that has been documented. [The book is not an author writing on a subject. It is two sets of analysis on the use of torture, the memos from A-Z (seeking authorization and justification then implementation of new rules governing interrogations), several reports (including the ICRC and Taguba reports), afadavits, etc.]

So, no. It is NOT an opinion of an author, but facts of what has occurred.

Sodomizing someone with a broomstick, if you'll recall, isn't something someone just pulled out of the air. Remember the case in New York several years back, now, of the cops sodomizing a young man they were holding in custody? Unfortunately, there are some among us who feel that that kind of abuse is merited. I personally think those fuc**rs oughtta be strung up for being inhumanely perverse.

You ever heard of "Monster?" He's a Specialist over there who they turned to when they really wanted to freak a detainee out. I was reading yesterday of an account where he whipped his pecker out and rubbed it against a male detainees face - telling him he'd rape him if he didn't tell him what he wanted to know. Sick fu**.

Here's an article that mentions him:

Specialist Damien M. Corsetti, a tall, bearded interrogator sometimes called "Monster" -he had the nickname tattooed in Italian across his stomach, other soldiers said - was often chosen to intimidate new detainees. Specialist Corsetti, they said, would glower and yell at the arrivals as they stood chained to an overhead pole or lay face down on the floor of a holding room. (A military police K-9 unit often brought growling dogs to walk among the new prisoners for similar effect, documents show.)

"The other interrogators would use his reputation," said one interrogator, Specialist Eric H. Barclais. "They would tell the detainee, 'If you don't cooperate, we'll have to get Monster, and he won't be as nice.' " Another soldier told investigators that Sergeant Loring lightheartedly referred to Specialist Corsetti, then 23, as "the King of Torture."

A Saudi detainee who was interviewed by Army investigators last June at Guantánamo said Specialist Corsetti had pulled out his penis during an interrogation at Bagram, held it against the prisoner's face and threatened to rape him, excerpts from the man's statement show.
www.nytimes.com...

What has/is happening at Gitmo, Bagram, Abu Ghraib and other detention facilities is nothing less than sociopathic. These practices should never have been condoned and codified. Intelligence experts agree that the use of torture (as we're seeing it applied in the here and now) is anything but useful. Quite the contrary. It's gonna come back and bite us on the collective a double s with a vengeance.

This is not what the USA is about. We can either call atrocities what they are and hold the responsible parties accountable, or we will be partners in this madness.


[edit on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]

hey Syrian Sister if it was Mossad or CIA, it be them who be committing suicide attacks on Mosques or funerals. since i dont see how Americans or Israelis in their past history commit suicide for their country since its better to serve the countries alive and continue fighting. if u seen Mossad's past they be assasinating and planting bombs in terrorists own cell phones, the CIA use predator drones and snipers. not commit suicide by blowing themselves up. the only people who committ suicide are the Jihadists aka "freedom fighters" who considered Shiite Muslims as heretics. so they are willing to kill Shiites because some Wahabbis believe it makes Allah happy to commit martyrdom on heretics like the Shiites.

Originally posted by Syrian Sister
Shots.

I never said it was a dictionary did i?

I keep telling you again and again shots. Propoganda is just the spreading of an idea. Wether by truth or by lie. Wether it’s the wrong idea or the right idea. That is for you to decide.

Wiggle wiggle SS. You said here is the defintion of propaganda and that was not a defintion, you get defitions from Dictionary's not Enclyopedias or didnt' you know that?

Wiggle wiggle SS

LMAO

So SS, according to your "definition" of propoganda, the selling and advertising of girl cookies is propoganda. Syrian Sucker...you use that word way too loosely. There is a reason why it is a funny sounding word....because it is reserved for certain things...it is not meant to be used for everyday casual talk.....passing ideas.

Hey Bob, I think your tie is stupid.

is that propoganda? according to you it is..

[edit on 24/5/2005 by SportyMB]

What is propaganda?

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.


Propaganda is a specific type of message presentation aimed at serving an agenda. At its root, the denotation of propaganda is 'to propagate (actively spread) a philosophy or point of view'. The most common use of the term (historically) is in political contexts; in particular to refer to certain efforts sponsored by governments or political groups.
en.wikipedia.org...

I remember looking up propaganda in an american dictionary a couple of years ago, and it said something like : communist method of planting lies in order to influence political decisions.

read another interesting article on the subject, gives the shia point of view. This guy, Al-Sadr, is great, he's working for the unity of the iraqi people against the occupier's divide&conquer strategy.

www.aljazeera.com...

Anti-U.S. cleric Muqtada al-Sadr emerged Monday for the first time since his fighters clashed with American forces in August, delivering a fiery speech demanding that coalition forces leave Iraq and that Saddam Hussein be punished.

Al-Sadr, the Shiite cleric whose army fought U.S. forces in Baghdad and Najaf last year, held a press conference in his father's home in the holy Shiite Muslim city of Najaf, 100 miles south of Baghdad. Al-Sadr criticized the American-led occupation and called for an immediate withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq.

He also demanded punishment for Saddam, who suppressed the Shiites during his three-decade rule and is being held in a U.S. military detention facility in Baghdad awaiting trial on war crimes charges.

"I demand several things, including punishing Saddam and calling on the Iraqi government, religious movements and political factions to work hard to kick out the occupier," al-Sadr said. "I want the immediate withdrawal of the occupation forces."

Al-Sadr's reappearance coincides with mediation efforts involving Deputy Prime Minister Ahmad Chalabi to get murder charges against the cleric dropped. An Iraqi judge has issued an arrest warrant charging al-Sadr and his key lieutenant, Riyadh al-Nouri, in the 2003 assassination of moderate cleric Abdul Majid al-Khoei.

Al-Sadr also accused the United States of trying to foment a sectarian conflict, and he demanded the coalition release all detainees.

"The occupier is trying to make up a sectarian war between the Sunnis and Shiites," al-Sadr said. "It is not acceptable to direct the allegations of ugly acts committed by the occupier against the Shiites, to the Sunnis, we also condemn and denounce all the “terrorist” acts." [\quote]


[edit on 24-5-2005 by Moretti]

[edit on 24-5-2005 by Moretti]

Originally posted by Syrian Sister


That's funny rogue, because in the third geneva convention article 4. It clearly states that a people have full right to to resist occupation. And that resistance fighters are acceptable under geneva. EVEN THE US ADMINISTRATION ADMITS THAT THE IRAQI RESISTANCE IS COVERED BY THE GENEVA CONVENTION. UNLIKE YOUR MERCENARIES!

The resistance doesn't hurt civilians. they have no reason to hurt their own family, the very thing they are fighting for.

SS Kindly quote the exact Text of the convention that you seem to think applies. I want to make sure I am addressing the very same text before I reply to that.

As for the resistance doesn't hurt civilians that is and out and out lie and you know it. It has been proven over and over to you, you just do not want to admit it is true because you have been so brain washed.

Exact quote ? What a strange method of trying to discredit someone you don't agree with. Is your only purpose here trying to disrupt intelligent conversation ?

The Geneva Conventions stipulate the humane treatment of prisoners (soldiers and civilians) in times of war. The Bush administration lawyers have been thinking hard to find the following argumentation to "legalize" the widespread systematic torture methods : These guys are fighting us, so they aren't civilians. They don't wear uniform, so they arent soldiers. Hahaha! The geneva convention only covers soldiers and civilians, so we can do anything to them we like.


[edit on 24-5-2005 by Moretti]