What We Iraqis Want

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posted on May, 23 2005 @ 05:45 AM
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thomas crowne


I can't give evidence that htere where rapes in abu Gharib thomas? ask me for evidence and find out.
It is up to the iraqi people wether or not they want to rise up against their government, it has nothing to do with you thomas crowne. It is always only up to a people.

Helping the puppet regime, which is doomed to collapse, is a silly exercise judge crowne, one which you should not waste your lifes on. The oil isn't worth it, belive me.


Sister, do you have any feeling that this is bigger than the U.S.; thatthere are sinister forces attempting to pull the world under one flag?


Yes ofcource, the illuminati.

Thats Just Weird.
Ask and you shall recieve. But you gotta ask first. It's difficult for me to just flood this board with a hundred links under every single sentence that i make. Ask, and i shall give. Take it or leave it. Besides, why do i have to be your baby sitter, you should be going out and checking wether what i'm saying is true or not. Truth seekers, hah.

850,000 Iraqis died. YEAH, because they where in a war with iran. Iranians and iraqies where killing each other, what is your point here?
The US killed more iraqies than Saddam. Full stop.

topsecretombomb
"eveyrone knows were in iraq because our country was attacked"

You where attacked, but not by iraq.
So you are saying your invasion of iraq, is some kind of revenge for something iraq never did?

vincere7
hiding your shame by claiming you were being sarcastic, tisk tisk tisk.

"what gives you the right to think or say what the Iraqi's really want"

I didn't say what iraqies want, the women who is iraqi who wrote that letter, was saying what iraqies really want. How do i know what they want, because i know my family as i know myself, and iraq is my family.

As for your talk about me being a child and that i shouldn't be talking politics but playing. Sadly in this world, alot of children are not able to play as they should. Some are out there fighting wars, some because they where pushed into it by well dressed recruiters who offered them the world, and some because they have to because they are attacked. Sadly in this world, there is not much room for children to be children.
I was born old, that's how i feel sometimes, and i know more about how this world works than people 4 times my age. They say that ignorance is bliss, but I'm not going to turn a blind eye , i'm going to fight for what is right with all my power, i'm going to defend the righteous people. And i'm going to let you know the truth wether you like it or not.

ulshadow
You say anti-american this, and anti-american that. But you don't see that i'm not anti-american do you? I'm anti the Traitors in the US administration, and i'm anti those who support it. I'm anti the illuminati that are running your country down into the garbage heap of history. SO you see, i'm actually pro american, more so than most of america.

As for you asking me to show you proof of my family, i would never ever put my family in danger, so you can forget it. Australia isn't the only place i've ever lived you know. I may not be in iraq now, but my heart is there. Besides, you don't have to listen to what i say, you have an iraqi women who is in iraq right now who is writing. Why not listen to what she has to say, instead of trying to blacken MY name?

As for if i am being paid to say this stuff, hah, we don't have money friend
it's you guys that have all the money. If i wanted to be paid for saying things, i'd go over to your side and make a mint. You question my integrity again and again, i don't care for money, i care for the truth, that is all.

philosopher
thankyou for your wisdom.
If the US left iraq, things will not go to hell as the US would have you belive. I assure you, there will be euphoria, absolute euphoria, in the streets all over iraq. Have faith in the iraqi people, they the creators of civilisation, they don't need anyone to take care of them, they can take care of themselves, if they are only left alone.

BaastetNoir


... and also wont bother coming back to this tread to read the answer, so you really dont have to reply.


I'm sorry i don't really care about you, i'm replying for the sake of others reading this thread.


so you must have been againts Saddam hussein than too right ??? he was occuping IRAQ...


Yes i was against saddam, he was a brutal dictator, like many brutal dictators the US continues to support. But Saddam didn't "occupy" iraq, how can someone occupy their own country, as john pilgar said, "that's just bizaar isn't it, how can someone occupy their own country". The definition of occupation doesn't allow it, i'm sorry, go buy a dictionary.

bikereddie


Maybe its because i actually told people exactly what they were going to view by clicking the link?


And i didn't? Assumptions are where most mistakes are born. You were not on the thread which it happened. Try not to make uneducated comments in your life ok? That's my advice.

sportymb

ooooooh so i make one mistake in misreading one little letter, ARE YOU GOING TO HANG ME FOR IT?
dearest, if you a quick little search of what i am saying you'll find many sources that back up what i have said, some of which are "main stream" even by your standards.

shots

Read what i wrote about propoganda, during war time and any time.
It's just about the spreading of an idea, wether by lies or truth, wether it's the right idea or the wrong idea.
Again, it's for you to check the varasity of what i say, and it's for you to decide.




posted on May, 23 2005 @ 07:19 AM
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I feel the crux of the argument is this.

Pro Iraqi side: Get out of our country, we don't want you here.

Pro US side: Hey, c'mon, at least we are better than Saddam, right?!?

Somebody said a good few links back that one letter from one woman doesn't speak for the whole country and is no more than heinous propaganda.

Yet all it took for the "Coalition of the Willing" to invade Iraq was ONE document. A rather flimsy dossier presented back in the days to the UN. Said something about, what were they called? Em, WMD? Remember those?

Yet, 2 years, 1000's of dead and immeasurable pain and suffering and no WMD.

So new justification required stat!!!! Saddam was a despot! Good that will do! We are surely better than Saddam, right? Here is a very appropriate quote from Nietzsche:



He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. When you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you.


The problem is Saddam WAS a horrible evil little man and Iraq IS better off without him. So a question to all the guys chanting USA!USA!

In a world full of horrible dictators, why this guy? Despite you setting him up and supporting him over the years? Despite the fact he was no threat to anyone? And please no "oh but 9-11, blah-de-blah, Al-Qaeda, mumble, mumble,Bin-laden,mutter,mutter, terrorists" type retorts people. All old ground, all disproved.

Mr. Crowne brushed on it a few posts back. There is a much wider picture here people. Here we are arguing over who has killed the most babies in this entire debacle (Answer: Dead babies (overall): Saddam, probably......Dead babies per annum: US by a long shot, with extra points for a couple of thousand years of still-birth and deformities thanks to DU rounds)

So while we play "My Dictator is bigger than your Dictator" certain commercial entities are making a sweet profit. People are still being tortured, raped, humiliated, killed. Nothing has changed except the wallpaper.

Is this the freedom we promised them? Is this what they want?



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 08:01 AM
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HowardRoark

Yes, i am an idealist. Perhaps if we where all struggling for the ideal, instead of accepting the injustice, this world would be a better place. Don't trust those lethargic defeatist pigs that tell you there is no hope and you might as well give up on what is just.

If being wise means losing hope howard, i'd rather live as a fool.

You cry democracy democracy, freedom freedom, but all i see from you is hypocracy. What if iraq's people democractically chose a theocracy, what would you say then? You know the resistance isn't fighting for a theocracy, they aren't fighting for any particular ideology, the resistance is made up many many ideological backgrounds, ranging from communist to theocrat. Christian to muslim. etc. etc. All the resistance is fighting for, is their freedom to choose their own path, without intervention. I have my own political ideologies, but whatever iraq finally chooses, is up to them. And i support them in there struggle for true freedom, not the orwellian version the US is selling.
(i am aware of the rhymes in the above...it was by chance i tells ya)

1. I have lived under two dictatorships, a socialist one, a capitalist one, and one which claims to be democratic but isn't really.

2. It's not just the racism, granted i don't experience much of that because of my white skin. But it's more of government oppression, you think it doesn't exist here? hah. It's just covered up better. Not a few months ago, one women, and australian citizen, was sent to a detention centre for 8 months because she couldn't produce her passport in random checks on the street. Another australian citizen, was DEPORTED and lost for 4 years, because she couldn't immediately provide her passport after she had a car accident. Peoples homes have been raided in the middle of the night, computers have been confriscated. I take a risk speaking my mind here, freedom of speech, i've never encountered it in my life. Perhaps your only free when your not saying things against the governemnt. You know a frog can willingly be boiled in water, if you slowely turn up the heat. Similarly in australian society, and no doubt in american society, your freedoms are being slowely taken away, and you don't realise because your so indoctrinated into thinking you live in a democracy.

3. you expose your indoctrination again, arranged marriages are a commen practice in Syria? This is a falacy. Do i have relatives that where forced into prearranged marriages? Ofcource not. Let me tell you something, in my religion, no one can by married by force, no one. It is written many times, you have to have written concent from both parties who are in the marriage. In the hindu religion yes, it is forced, but not in my religion. I understand it's some kind of cultural thing in india. But it certainly isn't part of Syrian culture.

4. Again here you think that somehow the Iraqi resistance is fighting for theocratic rule? This is yet another falacy. I know that there are christians in the resistance, just as there are many other ideological groups. They aren't fighting for any political agenda, they are fighting for their right to survive, because howard, "live free or die".

5. You think the US government is benevolantly out to free people, and your calling me hopelessly naive? That is not true howard. The same people who i ideolise do share my view, that is WHY i ideolise them. The same people who perpetrated the atrocities against there people are being put back into power by non other than the US, many former ba'athists are making up the new intelligence and security forces. Look it up, it's the truth, just like they put the nazi's into power. Or ask and i'll give you evidence. You see, once a traitor, always a traitor. It's not what race or ideology that you belong to, bathist/kurd etc. that makes you a traitor, it's who you are intrinsically. I find it ironic also, that ONE MINUTE YOU CLAIM the resistance is made up of entirely religios THEOCRATS who have that as their only agenda, and the next minute who claim they are entirely made up of SECTERIAN (socialist) BA'ATHIST, hell bent on that agenda. There is a contradiction between these to agenda's, are you not aware?
It's not what group your a part of that makes you a criminal and an opportunist, it's who you are. The resistance are the true patriots of iraq, they are the same people who always fought for what was right from the very begining.

6. They do make an effort to protect civilians. The resistance is fighting with their lives to protect the civilians, the resistance would not hurt their own families, you think about it, it's illogical. There has been alot of false flag operations going on to defame the resistance. The people who would benefit most from reducing the support base of the gorrilla army are behind these false flag operations. But as you can see from the above letter, (which actually adresses this fact), the iraqi people are not fooled.
As for my impationed "HELL NO" i don't see how that is inconsitant with the fact that i live in a western country and have aquried some of your traits.

7. I did not evade the question, my answer is right there. And you find it curious that i am only a teenage girl and i use the word false flag ops? Thankyou for the compliment, i know that i am intelligent and know quiet a bit about the way the world works. But only a minute ago you where talking about how idealistic and naive i am because of my age. Why this contradiction?
I have no reason to lie to you about my age or my location. If i wanted to lie to meet my agenda, i would have told you i was from iraq.

8. Despite our differance in age, i think i can safely say, that it is i who has seen MORE of life than you. I have seen alot in my few years. Besides, wether or not you have faith in the iraqi people, or wether you don't think "they can complete it alone" is NON OF MY CONCERN. Who do you think you are, that you have some kind of authority over wether or not iraq can do it on their own? That you will inforce "what you think is best" for iraqies? Before you accuse me of hypocracy, note that we both may have an opinion on what is best for them, but your the only one trying to IMPOSE YOUR OPINION. On an unwilling people, and you claim to be democratic. Who do you think you are, that you have any parental autority of iraqies, you are not world police! They created civilisation while your country was thousands of years from even being created. So i suggest you take a seat and learn before you try to teach.

9. I told you, false flag ops. And the badr brigades, who are trying to incite ethnic tensions are an anti-resistance group sponsered by the US and it's stooges in the puppet regime. The resistance, and the iraqi people remain united. Don't under estimate how much iraqies love their country, and how much that love brings them together.

10. I don't know? Are there? bring them out when the resistance is victorious, i'm sure we can sort everything back to the just order.

11. Again with the theocrats. I say "iraq would be free", and you say "which would never happen if the theocrats take controll". But what if iraq freely chooses a theocracy, would you deny them their choice? personally i don't really care very much for that ideology. But if that's what iraq wanted, then that is up to them. Because unlike some people, when i talk about freedom, i mean the real thing.

12. The iraqi resistance, are iraqies, they have no reason to kill their own family. But like the french resistance, the iraqi resistance rightfully and justly executes collaborators, i don't really know if you can call a collaborator iraqi, i think perhaps they are stripped of that privelage.

----------------------------------------------------

As for your answers to my questions.

1,2. I guess that means you where not aware. Go out an educate yourself in that case. No "secret documents", just plain history.

3. Yes, it shows how much you condemn the actions, you go out and do worse. Two wrongs don't make a right. And it shows how much you condemn dictators, when you continue to support them around the world. That doesn't mean you should invade everyone either howard, it just means you shouldn't support dictators, and then claim you invaded a country ot give them democracy. If your belive your government was acting to give iraq democracy, and not for their own profit, oil and agenda. Then i'm not the one who is hopelessly naive.

4. Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordon. Some you helped into power, Pinochet, heard of him?

5. The point is, why wheren't you kicking up a storm, at the time when saddam gassed the kurds, why this delayed memory of the event? Perhaps it's to suit your own agenda that you are bringing it up so much now.

6. I'm merely exposing your hypocracy. You shouldn't act at all, you should keep your nose out of things, because it has nothing to do with you. A people, and only a people have the right to bring down their governments, a people and only a people have the right to choose their own fate. Enough of your meddling, you have caused to much trouble bringing dictators into power, you have caused to much problems meddling with the right of iraqies. Why is the US blamed for the rest of the worlds problems? because you stick your nose in things and cause problems.

7. This time YOU evaded the question, are you aware of the fact that phsycological operations are carried out or not?

8. It was the US who was the first who put sanctions on iraq, and it was the US who then pressured the rest of the world to follow it's, it was your resolution to put sanctions on iraq that pushed in the UN. And it was you who kept that resolution in place. Don't you deny it now. As for what you say that my claims are suspect, Madoline Albright acknowledged those claims, infact she went further and said that the death of 500 children under 5 was "worth it". www.cflweb.org... .
1.5 million till 1995, how many died in the 6 years after that howard. How many died? Was it worth it howard?

9. Most didn't.

10. You say no ofcource not, but your administration doesn't think so, they say that "collatoral damage" is acceptable.
The resistance does not kill civilians.
Half of the police are actuall pro-resistance infiltrators, meaning they work for the resistance, some of them are just collaborators, and they are and should be executed like all collaborators, through out history.
No, it is not possible that there ultimate aim is not for freedom but total control of everything. Because if total controll of everything was their aim, they would be working with the occupation.

11. Again it YOU who has evaded the question. You did not answer wether or not oyu would resist. You merely said "try it and see" as if might makes right, and since you don't think it will ever happen to you, you don't have to question wether or not it's a peoples right to fight back. IS that is Howard, does might make right? Just because you can occupy people, does that mean that you should?
I am asking you howard, and if you evade this question again, you would have backed down from a challange. If your country where occupied, would you resist?
I bet you wouldn't, do you know why? Because as the end of nazi germany showed us all, There is a difference between a TRUE PATRIOT and a flag waving zombie. There are only very few True patriots in america left, the rest are flag waving zombies, who will wave any flag you put into their hand. Opportunists who don't care what they do so long as it benefits them. You see, wether your a true patriot or a traitor and opportunist, isn't about which group you belong, it's who you are.


[edit on 23-5-2005 by Syrian Sister]



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 08:06 AM
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I know you don't like me but.


I just want to compliment you on your quote by nitzche.

Many years ago, when i first read that quote, i didn't quiet understand, but after i saw what i saw, then i finnally understood. What he said we must steadfastly hold on to, untill the end of our days. We do not win, if we become what is we hate.

i wrote that quote on this board myself not two or three days ago.... maybe people are listening...



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 08:13 AM
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Originally posted by Syrian Sister

I know you don't like me but.


.... maybe people are listening...



Sorry if I gave you that impression! I quite admire you actually.

The thing is I agree with BOTH sides, and disagree with BOTH sides....sort of a very icky grey area called the real world. Not a like or dislike issue.

People are listening. In between the noise and shouting contests, people are listening and learning. Keep posting, we'll keep listening!!




posted on May, 23 2005 @ 08:19 AM
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Thankyou howmuchthisdodgy. I quiet admire you from your above post too!


All i ask is to be heard.

i will try to keep it up
( i don't mean this thumbs up the way it is meant in arab culture, i mean it in a good way
)

[edit on 23-5-2005 by Syrian Sister]



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 08:45 AM
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There are numerous accounts of systematic sexual abuse of local populations by american soldiers, in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere. They didnt even refrain from raping elderly women.



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 08:56 AM
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Originally posted by Syrian Sister
Thats Just Weird.
Ask and you shall recieve. But you gotta ask first. It's difficult for me to just flood this board with a hundred links under every single sentence that i make. Ask, and i shall give. Take it or leave it. Besides, why do i have to be your baby sitter, you should be going out and checking wether what i'm saying is true or not. Truth seekers, hah.

lol, you're making excuses.
Not once has anyone asked you to flood the board with hundreds of links, just provide at least one! I have asked you. Others have asked you. I'm asking you again.
Why are you so reluctant? Just do it.

And I have searched to see if there was any truth to all your claims. There doesn't seem to be, that's why I'm asking you to provide proof of your claims, since you believe so much that it's the truth.



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 09:12 AM
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There are numerous accounts of systematic sexual abuse of local populations by american soldiers


You got proof?

You are hyping this up.....yeah there probably has been a very small number (maybe like 2 or 3 hell maybe even 8) of cases invloving sexual abuse/rape done by American troops to the local populas in Iraq

You are making out to be like it's a wide spread problem thats infecting all troops..it's not. There are a few bad nutshells in all armies/populations from all countries...and the ones found guilty should be severely dealt with.



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by Syrian Sister
shots

Read what i wrote about propoganda, during war time and any time.
It's just about the spreading of an idea, wether by lies or truth, wether it's the right idea or the wrong idea.
Again, it's for you to check the varasity of what i say, and it's for you to decide.



No you didn't wikipedia did and kindly note the spelling of Propaganda.

en.wikipedia.org...

That is also and encyclopeia not a dictionary.

Here from one of the two definitions I used and I can assure you both have similar discriptions Note the first words following the numbers one and two. Perhaps that may help this time around.



1. The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause.

2. Material disseminated by the advocates or opponents of a doctrine or cause: wartime propaganda.


As you can see one is Systematic the other is Material. You are using the defintion under systematic which is the broadest of terms.

Bettter get off that computer and into school.



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 09:20 AM
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Originally posted by Moretti
There are numerous accounts of systematic sexual abuse of local populations by american soldiers, in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere. They didnt even refrain from raping elderly women.


Can you prove it as fact? Source please.

Amazing how many new members signed up in the past few days that immediately jump in on this one specific thread isn't it and they are all on SS side no less


Also note they are online immediately after or before SS


[edit on 5/23/2005 by shots]



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 10:50 AM
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Summary of this and other similar posts:

America is evil.

I have proof.

But you must ask for it.

OK, I will supply the proof.

Just wait, it is coming...

Soon, it will be in my next post...

Hang around, it is coming soon...

Don't go away...(let's see how long I can string these guys along
)

( If they lose interest, or back me into a corner, I will merely start another thread. )
****************

Pathetic.


:shk:



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 10:55 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
Summary of this and other similar posts:

America is evil.

I have proof.

But you must ask for it.

OK, I will supply the proof.

Just wait, it is coming...

Soon, it will be in my next post...

Hang around, it is coming soon...

Don't go away...(let's see how long I can string these guys along
)

( If they lose interest, or back me into a corner, I will merely start another thread. )
****************

Pathetic.


:shk:


dont forget to post up the pics ok.



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 11:09 AM
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OK, as soon as I get this PhotoShop stuff down pat...I want to finish the Ronald McDonald faces on the troops...



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 12:22 PM
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Sister, if you have evidence that there are rapes and other abuses going on, not only do I suggest that you give it here, but that you also forward it to the proper authorities. As it has been proven time and again, we actually punish those guilty of such crimes; we do not honor those who commit atrocities, as the opposing side does.

You know what, we ceretainly agree on something, other than the belief that there is an international group of wealthy elite that is attempting to conquer the world, and is using the militaries of the U.S., G.B., Aus. and a few others, to accomplish it. We also agree that the Iraqi people aren't worth a single dead American, Brit or Aussie.

As I pointed out, and you agreed in a round about way, these people seemed to be content to live under the threat of the plastic shredders, rape rooms and other cruel and oppressive tactics of the Husseini regime. They didn't resist at all, so they must have wanted it, right? That being the case, who in the world do we think we are, interfering with their desires?
these people do not understand the worth of a human life or the value of freedom and we delude ourselves into thinking that once they experience it, they'll recognize it and fight to keep it. I'd lay odds that if we pulled out right now, it wouldn't even take six months before either another Husseini-type took control or an Islamic theocracy took control.

AS far as your "evidence" of rape, here's a major difference, even if it has happened. We do not condone such acts. Hussein did. As a matter of fact, it was his family's policy and procedure, along with torture and murder. Such acts aren't limited to the Husseini regime, are they?

Here's what needs to happen, we need to pull out, and pull out now. We do not belong there, and, as I said before, there is much more to this than the official government position.
But, before we do, you need to leave the comforts of Australia and join the hoards of Syrians, Saudis and Iranians who have seen fit to go to Iraq and fight against the Western liberators. See for yourself, rather than listening to the war stories.



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 12:29 PM
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In reply to your comment sister.
I was only answering your question and giving some advice.
you, as always chose to see it a put down of you. That was not my intention, and cannot for the life of me see where that implication lies.

This was my reply.....

"I'm not sure why your "graphic images" were censored Sister and mine wasn't.
Maybe its because i actually told people exactly what they were going to view by clicking the link? I do know that one of your pictures was changed to a link because it contained profanity. Thats all i can think of. Maybe you ought to ask the mods via U2U?"

This was yours....

"And i didn't? Assumptions are where most mistakes are born. You were not on the thread which it happened. Try not to make uneducated comments in your life ok? That's my advice."


I suggest you try to stop making uneducated replies too, and see advice and help when it's offered. OK, i was'nt on the thread, but i did offer advice. Maybe i should have flushed that advice down the pan along with the nasty, personal and vindictive remarks you have made against me.

You have any issue with anyone here, then take it to the mods. If you have an issue with my help, then take that to the mods as well.
Basically speaking, your just not worth the effort any more.



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 12:32 PM
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Originally posted by topsecretombomb
eveyrone knows were in iraq because our country was attacked.


9-11? There is absolutely NO evidence that Saddam and Iraq had anything to do with the attacks of Sept. 11.


I can't believe anyone, at this point, could be so gullible as to believe that horseh**t.



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 12:38 PM
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ECK, there is some foreign intel that Hussein's bunch was involved indirectly, in a minor way. However, as there are other countries that are more supportive of those who conducted the terrorist operations, one has to wonder why Iraq was targeted so quickly and the logical targets have not.



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Sister, if you have evidence that there are rapes and other abuses going on, not only do I suggest that you give it here, but that you also forward it to the proper authorities


It happened and I'm sure its still happening. Here's a book that lays it all out. I suggest everyone take a look.



The Torture Papers
The Road to Abu Ghraib
Edited by Karen J. Greenberg
Joshua L. Dratel
Introduction by Anthony Lewis

The Torture Papers document the so-called ‘torture memos’ and reports which US government officials wrote to prepare the way for, and to document, coercive interrogation and torture in Afghanistan, Guantanamo, and Abu Ghraib. These documents present for the first time a compilation of materials that prior to publication have existed only piecemeal in the public domain. The Bush Administration, concerned about the legality of harsh interrogation techniques, understood the need to establish a legally viable argument to justify such procedures. The memos and reports document the systematic attempt of the US Government to prepare the way for torture techniques and coercive interrogation practices, forbidden under international law, with the express intent of evading legal punishment in the aftermath of any discovery of these practices and policies.
www.cambridge.org...



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
ECK, there is some foreign intel that Hussein's bunch was involved indirectly, in a minor way


TC, that source (Curveball) was discredited.





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