What We Iraqis Want

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posted on May, 21 2005 @ 01:17 PM
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Sister, you cannot prove any rapes in Abu Gahrab, and as far as the limited and short-lived Shia uprising in 1991, they did that only because G.H.W. Bush misled them into believing he was going to back them militarily. Go figure, a Bush misleading people; who'd a figured? They were quickly smashed by a force that had already been smashed.

As I have said, where were the brave fighters when their children and women were being raped by the Husseins? Cowering. Now that a civilized force is there, they feel brave. I am not impressed. Want to impress me? Let us be stupid enough to spend our money rebuilding everything, helping the government that is elected by the people train their military and police, and then let us get out. The sooner that is accomplished, the sooner we can get out.

Afterward, it is up to the Iraquis to keep McDonalds and Wal-Mart out of their country!

I never liked clowns. Never have, never will. Especially evil ones bent on global domination.




posted on May, 21 2005 @ 01:19 PM
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Sister, do you have any feeling that this is bigger than the U.S.; thatthere are sinister forces attempting to pull the world under one flag?



posted on May, 21 2005 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by Syrian Sister
Ofcource i have evidence, Just ask and i will give.
.....
but are you sure you can handle it? I doubt it, i didn't even think you'd really dare to ask me to prove it. But since you did, i shall do so in my next post! Stay tuned everyone.

In this and in other threads you always claim to have evidence and always say "just ask" but as far as I can tell not once have you provided any evidence.
Just do it.
People would take you much more seriously. If you're going to make wild claims, back them up right away. Why waste time arguing, just show this so called "evidence".

And as far as that so called evidence your provided in your next post.
1. Shave about 75,000+ people off the number you claimed were killed in the invasion.

2. You have got to come up with better sources. But nevertheless, lets say that many were killed by the sanctions and it could be proved that the sanctions were the cause. Those sanctions were put there by the UN not the US. So blame the world community. We (the US) gave the most food and aid to Iraq. (btw, the number closer to reality of the number of people who died in from the UN sanctions is around 350,000)

3. You still haven't proven the US killed more people than Saddam!
He killed thousands upon thousands of Kurds and Shi'as during uprisings, he killed thousands when he used chems against the Kurds during the Iran war, speaking of that war 1.7 million may have died on both sides, if you split that in 2 perhaps as many as 850,000 Iraqis died.



Another extremely racist comment, and people where complaining about the other guy. Are you not aware that many Iraqies studied abroad, mostly in britian, and then returned to iraq? Are you not aware that iraqies are extremely intelligent, and that most of them know better english grammer than some americans?

What are you talking about?
The person, according to the letter, has been there under both Saddam and the Americans with not a hint of leaving. If she has lived under both conditions, then she must have been locked up in a safe or something during the Saddam era, because there is no way she would have wrote all that (unless of course she's one of the lucky few in Saddam's good graces).
As far as the grammer....letters written like that, in that type of style, saying that type of stuff, end up under the false catagories on Snopes. And are usually sent via emails telling people to send it to 20 of their friends. Letter's written like that pop up all the time. Not one so far has been true. Neither is this one. There's no way that letter was not written by a western anti-war activist.



posted on May, 21 2005 @ 02:20 PM
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eveyrone knows were in iraq because our country was attacked. plain and simply put. all the other things that come out of it are the suffering syndromes that come with trying to justify bad people.


we were attacked.



posted on May, 21 2005 @ 05:47 PM
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Originally posted by Syrian Sister
Thankyou for exposing what you are also. Your version of what "iraqies" want, "McDonalds, KFC, Pizza Hut, fresh water...maybe Toys R' US?" sounds more like what the Capitalists in the US administration want. Your orwellian version of freedom is not what is going to happen to iraq. But thankyou for saying what you did Vincere, because i'm going to be quoting you with that for a long long time to come.


It's called sarcasm, look it up.



Originally posted by Syrian Sister
You see, the US doesn't really want freedom in iraq, what they want is a pro-US capitalist regime, that will sell off iraq's oil/resources cheaply and would allow big companies to loot the rest.

This is the US's Vision of iraq, thankyou For proving that fact to everyone here vincere7..


First off, you're a teenage girl from Australia that should be doing teenage things, not discussing politics with adult potatoe chip eating, computer hounds.

What gives you the right to think or say what the Iraqi's really want or anyone who doesn't live in Iraq for that matter. You are certainly no authority for those people, you're not even an authority over yourself. Go back to school, get a good education, and stay away from adult forums where discussing politics is no place for a child. You can only accomplish frustration on a forum like this when you do not understand the very responses, simply because you're too young. Thee are plenty of things for a nice your girl to do in Australia why spend time on a forum with old, angry men and women? Go live girl, when you're older there will be plenty of time to be pissed off at the world and the super powers thereof.



posted on May, 21 2005 @ 06:17 PM
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vincere7 is right, SS you don't even live in iraq, i bet you never even live there, how would you know what's it's liek there? you keep claiming that you know exactly whats going on. you said that you have a family there, prove it. give me a letter from them and let's see what they really said.

of course you could very well be paided to speard Anti-American crap cause thats all you know how to do. in every post you have Anti-american and in every thread you have Anti-american even ones that don't even related to america. infact thats all i see, all your postes are alll Anti-american.

Username Syrian Sister (Send U2U) (Add to Buddies)
Registered 5/6/05 (34.61 messages per day)
Posts 548 (0.04% of total posts.)

you have posted so much, about 34.61 message a day? don't you ever have homework to do? i heard schools in Australia are pretty hard. Are you sure you are a teenager? Are you paid to speard anti-american stuff?



posted on May, 21 2005 @ 07:49 PM
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What strikes me most about this thread is the general and shocking level of ignorance that is displayed by people here. I have to say, that having read the thread i can see that Syrian Sister is LEAGUES ahead of ANY of you who are trying to challange anything that she says. I want to quote some of the things that have been said here on this forum and show my opinions of each of them.

I wouldnt want to ask where everybody is from and what newspapers and news stations they read because that would be rude of me. But anyway, i shall start at the end of this thread and i'll start my own little war on Errorism.


Originally posted by Bikereddie
She speaks of torture and loss of limbs etc.

Take a look at this link, It is Extremely Graphic and contains images from Saddam's reign, and what he did.
Do not look at the images if you are sensitive to seeing people dead, gassed and tortured.

members.cox.net...

[edit on 03/12/04 by Bikereddie]


Hey there! great going on the source! Dont those pictures just speak a thousand words? The site managed to string together 20 pictures of people who got gasses, maybe this isnt even in Iraq! There is NO source of the pictures at all. But lets say it is, fantastic you've pointed out something that we all knew, Saddam was a brutal dictator and he killed his own people. A useless source.

And next.


Originally posted by SportyMB

The website you reference this to is not a credible site...where is the mainstream news sources you spoke of?


So is it just the mainstream sources that are accurate? This website is all about denying ignorance, which mainly comes from one sided mainstream media. The total number of people who have died due to the "official" iraq invasion, that is when America actually invaded iraq, not from the unofficial bombings that have been taking place in iraq everyday for since the end of the first iraq war. This has been documented on the BBC in cheap programme called "Holidays on the axis of Evil" Look it up because im not going to do it for you.

Infact i cant even be bothered to continue with proclaiming peoples cultural and political prejudices.

What america has to face up to, and Britain, is that it was wrong for us to go to war. Yes a Dictator has been removed, but he was no more of a tyrant that Americas occupation has been. The crimes that go on at Abu Ghraib would be an embarrasment to a country as civil as Russia let alone the "freedom Fighters" in America, the one true democracy.

www.antiwar.com...

These are just the documented pictures, despite you wanting evidence on what really goes on then it becomes difficult to get evidence that would impress any ameircan, because the testimonies of the prisoners that have been released there are deemed usless by your media. Is it that these people simply accuse you of these crimes because they have an irrational fear and hatred of americans due to Propogana?

The attrocites that go on at Abu Ghraib will never be justified and its victimised will never get Justice becuase of your sea of yellow tape and fear tactics.

I'm very sorry if this seems like Anti American slander, but it is infact Anti-American Politics slander.

What you think is wrong. You have killed people for nothing, and have covered up your reasons to go to war with lies and fabrication. You have been bombing Iraq since the end of the first Gulf War, it is estimated that over 100,000 people have died from your airstrikes. Your invasion and occupation HAS caused AT LEAST 21,195 Iraq civilians. Do not even begin to try and claim that you can justify these deaths because saddam killed more, please do not forget that he has been in power since the 1960's and can we therefore look at this in a more objective deaths per week ratio if we are going to argue numbers.

Also, if you dont think your capable of bombing a country for years and no-one finding out about it we only have to look to your past to realise that you have done this before and gotten away with it before. Laos is the most bombed country in the world. I'll give a prize to the man who can tell me who it was doing the bombing. yeah you guessed it, USA! USA! USA!

Off topic i know, but you carpet bombed Laos during the "anti communist" Vietnam war. Of course on paper you were never there and never admit to being there. But im pretty sure that on my visit to Laos last year i sat at a table made of bomb shrapnel, sitting on a stool made out of bomb shrapnel, eating with a fork made out of, you guessed it, bomb shrapnell.

You have left yourself in such a ridiculous situation in Iraq that pulling out will leave Iraq in complete Turmoil with the insurgents gaining power in a fashion that would be similar to Saddams regieme, or you could stay in iraq and be bombed day in day out by extremists who dont want you there leaving the iraqy death toll to rise and rise and rise.

Your liberation of iraq has astounded me, what a true inspiration to the planet you really are, you're core values of ignorance, bigatry, racism, capatalist money laundering and violence have urged me on to believe theres hope left on this planet..................oh no wait.

USA!USA!USA!



posted on May, 21 2005 @ 08:06 PM
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Originally posted by Phil0s0pher
I have to say, that having read the thread i can see that Syrian Sister is LEAGUES ahead of ANY of you who are trying to challange anything that she says.


Seeing that you just registered yesterday, your credibility based on your statement, has flown out the _ Are you syrian sister under a new name? Or perhaps a mustachioed, middle aged syrian, with a scimitar to grind? Another round here please.



posted on May, 21 2005 @ 08:18 PM
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Nice to see you've come up with a classic and lazy response. The character defemation! Brilliant! you'd know all about it after what happened to Bill Clinton! Excellent work on figuring that i did indeed register yesterday, but if you really must know that i simply registered with a different name under the same Email.

Secondly the fact that you think i am a syrian and i'm also a "covert" syrian sister speaks volumes about you.
I'm actually a 19 year old student from England. But if it floats your boat to think that i'm a middle aged syrian then who am i to deny you your little fantasy.

And how does the fact that i registered yesterday deny me on any counts credibility. What do i have to do to have a credible opinion? Id be more than happy for you to explain that to me.

[edit on 21-5-2005 by Phil0s0pher]



posted on May, 21 2005 @ 08:24 PM
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Originally posted by Phil0s0pher
Nice to see you've come up with a classic and lazy response. Excellent work on figuring that i did indeed register yesterday, but if you really must know that i simply registered with a different name under the same Email.


Do you use a different name then? Where are you from originally? Since we are discussing Iraq, and syrian sister, whom you agree with, likes to pretend she knows what Iraqi's are thingking, please share why you agree with our australian teenie bopper. Have you lived in Iraq or are you muslim and have a muslim point of view? They are not bringing me a beer, give me a minute will you.



posted on May, 21 2005 @ 08:30 PM
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Originally posted by Syrian Sister


again, I'm guessing you're pro-resistance?


Yes
i am always pro the righteous people who are ridding their land of occupation. These are not the only heroic partisans i am Pro, i am also pro the resistance of france again nazi occupation, the resistance of Vietnamn against US/french occupation etc. etc.



Another question: Do you know any 'insurgents', 'resistance fighters', etc.?


Yes,
i do. I have been blessed to know them.


hhmmm... so you must have been againts Saddam hussein than too right ??? he was occuping IRAQ... he wasnt elected ...he just LANDED and made himself at home...my opinion is that Iraquis should have been left alone with Saddam ...let him rape them, murder them and test bio-quemical weapons on them like he always did...Iraqis seems to be happier that way


so says the Syrian sister and her "Iraqi woman" letter

oh btw ..you are in Australia...did you forget to mention the Austaralian troops?? they are in Iraq as well you ... and also wont bother coming back to this tread to read the answer, so you really dont have to reply

[edit on 21-5-2005 by BaastetNoir]



posted on May, 21 2005 @ 08:44 PM
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so she's a teenie bopper, Vincere7 im beginning to wonder about your so called "credibilty". Does you mean to say that because she is a well read intelligent person we must fob off her opinion because she is a "teenie Bopper"

You also think that i'm a muslim, again you therefore by definition have prejudices, because obiviously if someone is spouting Anti American sentiment they must be either A) Muslim or B)" have a muslim point of view". Just to set the record straight i have met Buddists in Laos who spout anti american "propganda" Come to think of it, im pretty sure there are christians that also spread anti american sentiment.

Justifying you're telling and horribly worded question with an answer is in itself an injustice, but if you look back at my original post im pretty sure i highlighted a fair few of the reasons that i agree with Syrian Sister. Just incase you cant be bothered reading (something that i sense happens to you quite often) i shall highlight some basic reasons.

1) You've done it before in Laos and Northern Cambodia and got away with it (Air raid and cover it up) This is just one of many places.
2) Iraqs stability has taken, if im not mistaken, a pretty large nosedive since around march 2003, and i cant for the life of me think what happened on that date.
3) You have killed around give or take 25000 innocent people in the official war alone. Not to mention the sanctions, or the unofficial air strikes. Can you justify this? No, but PLEASE feel free to try.
4) Abu Ghraib
5) In Guantanamo Bay your breaches of the Geneva Convention every time you parade a prisoner outside demonstrate your lack of interest in international law.
6) She is well spoken and intelligent and backs up her claims with information, unlike most people here who throw back at her nothing but pre conceptions and false information
7) Commen sense, are you seriously, in your heart of hearts telling me that Syrian Sister has no reason to feel contempt towards the USA and what they have done to a country she cares about?

I think that will do for now. Hey could you get this guy a beer? He's starting to get irrational.



posted on May, 21 2005 @ 08:57 PM
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Originally posted by vincere7

Seeing that you just registered yesterday, your credibility based on your statement, has flown out the _ Are you syrian sister under a new name?


Sure raises some doubts doesn't it? Especially since PHIL has made very few posts and conviently picks this topic to start posting in.

Better make that two rounds ::::: breaks out Peanuts popcorn and crackerjack.



posted on May, 21 2005 @ 09:18 PM
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Originally posted by Phil0s0pher
so she's a teenie bopper, Vincere7 im beginning to wonder about your so called "credibilty". Does you mean to say that because she is a well read intelligent person we must fob off her opinion because she is a "teenie Bopper"


I does mean to say Absolutely.


Originally posted by Phil0s0pher
You also think that i'm a muslim, again you therefore by definition have prejudices, because obiviously if someone is spouting Anti American sentiment they must be either A) Muslim or B)" have a muslim point of view". "


It was a leading question, used to draw out information. You're not a muslim and cannot understand the muslim cause.


Originally posted by Phil0s0pher
Just incase you cant be bothered reading (something that i sense happens to you quite often) i shall highlight some basic reasons."


Thanks, I've got a couple in me. I prefer the highlights as I don't go back over drivel.


Originally posted by Phil0s0pher
1) You've done it before in Laos and Northern Cambodia and got away with it (Air raid and cover it up) This is just one of many places..


Yes it's called air superiority.


Originally posted by Phil0s0pher
2) Iraqs stability has taken, if im not mistaken, a pretty large nosedive since around march 2003, and i cant for the life of me think what happened on that date...


You're off by about a decade, but who's counting? Of course there unstable - were in a war smurfette.


Originally posted by Phil0s0pher
3) You have killed around give or take 25000 innocent people in the official war alone. Not to mention the sanctions, or the unofficial air strikes. Can you justify this? No, but PLEASE feel free to try....


I didn't kill them and the figures are way higher than that. Only morons justify bombing civilians with a government who never declared war.



Originally posted by Phil0s0pher
4) Abu Ghraib


Yes it's a prison where things of dis nature and things of dat nature go on in a prison.


Originally posted by Phil0s0pher
5) In Guantanamo Bay your breaches of the Geneva Convention every time you parade a prisoner outside demonstrate your lack of interest in international law.


Actually it displays our lack of interest in having jihad waged on us and lack of concern about international law in the equation when jihad is being waged on us.


Originally posted by Phil0s0pher
6) She is well spoken and intelligent and backs up her claims with information, unlike most people here who throw back at her nothing but pre conceptions and false information.


If she is who she claims to be, a teenage girl from australia, her claims and facts are media reports and propaganda, seen from the view of a kid who is yet to understand the world.


Originally posted by Phil0s0pher
7) Commen sense, are you seriously, in your heart of hearts telling me that Syrian Sister has no reason to feel contempt towards the USA and what they have done to a country she cares about?


I think as a teenager, she should do teenage things, and enjoy life. Maybe she should care more about Rwanda, and Sudan, but this is all political and if you want to pick up a gun don't be afraid to take a bullet.


Originally posted by Phil0s0pher
I think that will do for now. Hey could you get this guy a beer? He's starting to get irrational.


I only get irrational after drinking a fifth of Absolut. Welcome to ATS, Phil.

Hey shots budweiser ok?



posted on May, 21 2005 @ 10:35 PM
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Syrian Sister, I actually admire your idealism. Many of us have turned cynical after watching the human drama over the course of our lives. We find the kind of idealism, tinged with youthful innocence that you display reminds us of our own youthful outlook when we were young.

With experience, however, comes wisdom. You will see.


Originally posted by HowardRoark
So do you have any direct experience with life in Iraq under Saddam?



Originally posted by Syrian Sister
1. Something similar yes.


Please elaborate, if you want. It might help make your case.


Originally posted by HowardRoark
Do you want to move from Australia, a modern, tolerant, society to Iraq?



Originally posted by Syrian Sister
2. Australia, tolerant? HAH


Care to provide some back up for that statement? something related from direct experience perhaps?

Oh, I have no doubt that Australia has its share of boors and garden variety racism. Every country, every culture does. I am talking about a much more pervasive level of oppression. The mere fact that you can post on the internet is a classic example of the freedoms and tolerance granted you at this point. Do not assume that those same freedoms would be accorded you under a theocratic rule.


Originally posted by HowardRoark
When you finish growing up, do you want to have a job and some sense of independence, even if you marry, or do you want to become a virtual slave to your husband with no hope of education, or independence?




Originally posted by Syrian Sister

3.First of all, your question is based on alot of misconceptions, infact i feel insulted when you pose it to me, because i know what kind of underlying propoganda is underneath it. Infact, i don't even know wether or not i even plan to get married, and it is non of your bussiness thankyou.



Fine, you are right it is none of my business. Fortunately you are no longer living in Syria or anywhere else in the Mid-east where arranged marriages are still in common practice. I bet you are glad about that. (that is, if your really are who you say you are.

Let me ask you this: Do you have relatives that were forced into prearranged marriage?



Originally posted by HowardRoark
If you are a muslim, what particular branch of islam to you follow (i.e. Sunni, Shiite, etc.)?




Originally posted by Syrian Sister
4. I don't support the cleansing of any race or people from anywhere, and neither does the resistance. My version of islam, i have no version of islam, i am just muslim thankyou. And besides religion has nothing to do with it, the women who wrote the letter is christian, there are christians in the resistance too you know.



You know, I somehow doubt that very much. The christians in Iraq know full well what would happen to them under a theocratic rule.


Originally posted by HowardRoark
Do you support the ethnic cleansing of Iraq of those that do not follow your particular version of Islam?

Do you support the ethnic cleansing of Kurds from Iraq?




Originally posted by Syrian Sister
5. As i said, i don't support the cleansing of any race/religion etc, from anywhere.


I really didn't think that you did. My point is that the very people that you are idealizing don't share your views. many of these so-called resistance fighters were the same people that perpetrated atrocities against their own people a few short years ago. If you fail to even acknowledge that fact, then your are hopelessly naive.


Originally posted by HowardRoark
Do you accept the premise that it is acceptable to kill innocent civilians in the process of launching terrorist attacks?




Originally posted by Syrian Sister
6.HELL NO! And nor does the resistance.


Then why have they made no effort to protect the civilians?

In fact, many insurgent attacks have been deliberately conducted to do more damage to the civilian population, especially the children, then they have against the coalition.

Again, you are hopelessly naive if you don't think that a many of the attacks in Iraq have nothing to do with the coalition. There are a number of blood feuds being waged out there now.

Also, I find your use of the phrase: "HELL NO!" to be inconsistent with your supposed persona. Are you being honest with us about who you really are?



Originally posted by HowardRoark
Do you think that it is right to cut a man's head off in cold blood?



Originally posted by Syrian Sister

7. in cold blood?
i mean, do you mean me to answer you differently if you posed the question, "in hot blood"? The resistance has been under defamation due to false flag ops and what not, many belive the berg video was a CIA creation. I do not agree with the execution of any POW, anywhere anyhow, So long as the person counts as a POW under the geneva convention.


Nice attempt to evade and dodge the question, but we all saw the Nick Berg video.

Again I find it curious that a teenage girl whose first language was probably not english would use a phrase like "false flag ops."




Originally posted by HowardRoark
Syrian Sister, What do you think would happen in Iraq if those who are conducting the insurgency were to suddenly gain power?

Do you think that they would have free elections?



Originally posted by Syrian Sister
8. Yes, ofcource. I have faith in the iraqi people.


I wish that I could share your faith, but having seen a bit more of life than you have (if you really are a teen aged girl), I have to say that it would be a difficult and dangerous path that I don't see them completing alone.


Originally posted by HowardRoarkDo you think that they would allow relegious freedom?



Originally posted by Syrian Sister
9. Yes ofcource, there are christians as well as muslims in the resistance, and christians and muslims have been living together peacefully in iraq for the last 1400 years.


Yeah right. They are busy trying to kill other muslims because they don't agree 100% on matters of faith. (which is another excuse for power). There is little hope that christians would be spared the same sort of animosity.


Originally posted by HowardRoark
Do you think that they would restore land and property seized by Sadam back to their original owners?


Originally posted by Syrian Sister
10. Has that not already happened? how will they do it again?


So, all the cases have been cleared up and settled by know? Even those where the records were deliberately destroyed? there are no cases in dispute?



Originally posted by HowardRoark
Do you think that they would allow young ladies like yourself access to the internet?

What do you think would happen?



Originally posted by Syrian Sister
11. Iraq would be free.


Which will never happen if the theocrats and criminals take control.


Originally posted by HowardRoark
How many innocent Iraqis would die in the ensuing bloodbath?



Originally posted by Syrian Sister
12. That depends on how many innocent iraqies the US occupation will kill out of spite and anger, the same kind that MasterGallo showed.


So you don't think that Iraqis are above killing each other?



Originally posted by Syrian Sister
Now howard Roark, if i may, i have my own questions for you, and i hope that you can answer them in the same manner which i answered you.

Are you aware Saddam worked for the CIA?


Are you aware, that the US helped to put saddam into power?


I suppose that you have seen the top secret documents that prove this, right/

Please. Saddam was a sociopath. Sociopaths work for one person and one person only, themselves.

How convenient it is to try and blame everything on the CIA (or was it the KGB
)

Saddam was a home grown Iraqi creation from start to finish.



Originally posted by Syrian Sister
Are you aware, that the US supported him, gave him weapons, some of which he used to kill kurds?



Most Americans are aware that our support of Saddam during the Iran/Iraq war was a mistake. We freely admit that. That doesn't mean that we condoned or supported his actions against the Kurds. To suggest otherwise is disingenuous of you. Saddam was a sociopath. Sociopaths are quite skilled in manipulating the situations to their own advantage to the detriment of others.



Originally posted by Syrian Sister
Do you support the fact that the US is still supporting despotic regimes around the world?


Examples?




Originally posted by Syrian Sister
Where were you when Saddam gassed the kurds?


Are you denying that he did it? What is the point of your question?



Originally posted by Syrian Sister
Are you aware that the US betrayed the Shia uprising in 1991?


You are naive if you think that the U.S. unilaterally withdrew support from the uprising. The fact is, there was little support from the world at large, and the rest of the mideast especially in that regard. Why is it that the U.S. is blamed for failing to act, then blamed for acting? Why do you blame the U.S. for the rest of the worlds problems?


Originally posted by Syrian Sister
Are you aware of intelligence pyso-op operations?


Do you have a point here? Do you even know what "pyso-op" means?



Originally posted by Syrian SisterDid you support the sanctions on iraq, which up to 1995 led to the death of 1.5 million iraqies, 2/3rds of which where under the age of 5 ?


Well to begin with, I would like to point out to you, my U.S. hating freind, that the sanctions were not imposed by the U.S. but by the U.N.

In addition, Your claims are somewhat suspect:

"The idea that sanctions in Iraq have killed half a million children (or 1 million, or 1.5 million, depending on the hysteria of the source) took root in 1995 and 1996, on the basis of two transparently flawed studies, one inexplicable doubling of the studies’ statistics, and a non-denial on 60 Minutes." More



Originally posted by Syrian Sister
If a people do not want to be occupied, would you still occupy them?


If a majority of Iraqis want the U.S. out, then why did they vote in the election?




Originally posted by Syrian Sister
Do you think that the lives of civilians are merely "collatoral damage" in war?


No, of course not, yet the prospect of killing iraqi civilians has not deterred the so called resistance from killing Iraqis?

Why do the so-called "resistance fighters" target the iraqi police?

is it possible that their ultimate aim is not freedom but total control of everything?



Originally posted by Syrian Sister
If your country where invaded and occupied, would you resist?


Try it and see



posted on May, 22 2005 @ 06:47 AM
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evanfitz.

Not to me he didn't.

Shots

This is the correct definition of propoganda.


Propaganda is a specific type of message presentation aimed at serving an agenda. At its root, the denotation of propaganda is 'to propagate (actively spread) a philosophy or point of view'. The most common use of the term (historically) is in political contexts; in particular to refer to certain efforts sponsored by governments or political groups.


en.wikipedia.org...

Now propoganda is the propoltion of an idea, it could be lies (which happens alot during war time), it could be truth, it could be the wrong idea or the right idea. That is for you to decide. But you better base your decision on alot of research.

The letter is ofcource the womans point of view. I never said otherwise. And the woman is only one woman. But she is iraqi, and is somewhat a representitive, especially from the group she is a part of, the christians.


Amethyst

I totally agree with you.


My question is...was Saddam the bad guy he's been portrayed as here, or is it just propaganda/manufacturing a "good" reason for invasion? My husband always says, believe half of what you see and none of what you hear.


Saddam was just as bad as any other dictator. Just as bad as the dictators the US is still supporting this minute. Ofcource he was bad, but also there has been much exageration by people who have an agenda, i suggest you have a read of this, you will be suprised i'm sure. It is written by a iraqi Shi'ite.

www.albasrah.net...

Your husband is a very wise man
. I can tell you that there is a difference between a TRUE patriot and a flag waving zombie. A flag waving zombie will wave any flag you put in their hand. But a true patriot will stand up for their country, even in the face of being called a traitor. For instance, there where many flag waving zombies in nazi germany, but there was a true patriot, general von stauffenberg. He thought that hitler was running germany into a hole, and blackening it's name in history. So he tried to assasinate hitler. He was sent to the firing squad as a consequence, and died shouting "long live germany". There is a difference between loving your country, and following your government.

I agree with all that you said, you have sound logic.

Sporty.


"Sporty appologised if i miss understood."

"It's all good "


I wasn't appologising sporty, i was explaining to bikereddie that YOU appologised. I am still ademant that i did not missunderstand you.



"And I even said that his comment was false....that he was stereotyping. "


No, you did not say that it was false, you said "wether it's true or not, it should not be said out of 'common courtesy'.
You are right it is stereotyping and racial vilification, what he said is UNTRUE about any race.
But what you said wasn't that it was untrue about any race, but that it shouldn't be said of of "common courtesy".



"The website you reference this to is not a credible site...where is the mainstream news sources you spoke of?"


I gave you a link from CBS!!!! that's an american channel is it not? I agree with you that it's bias, but i would say it's pro-US bias and i would think that you would accept that.



"Again, please provide good sources...www.firethistime.org is not one of them. "


How about try the source of your own memory, think back a bit, it was not that long ago, you can do it.



"They were combatants...just like the US troops, and they were also responsible for thier share of Iraqi deaths....were they not"

Not. Now i agree that collaborators are rightfully executed, but the iraqi resistance never kills innocent iraqies. Those bomings are false flag ops aimed at defaming them. But the iraqies are not fooled as it seems.


"I don't see how people can justify Saddam and his henchmen....CIA empowerment or not...he is/was an evil man that commited many atrocites and was directly responsible for many deaths. And he and his goonies should dealt with for thier crimes.."


I agree, SEND RUMSFELD AND CO TO THE HAGUE!


Bikerredie.

I don't follow where the hypocracy lies, the women never spoke well of saddam, he did torture and kill people. But so did the US, and they did equal, if not WORSE.

I posted links to graphic images of depleted uranium deformaties on another thread, and i warned that they where graphic, only my images where sensored. Why this double standard moderators? Now there is hypocracy for you bikerredie.

Realist05
We the arabs are one people. We have made mistakes yes, but they pale in comparison to the mistakes of others.
It is you who is denying your own faults against us, it is you who is running from your guilt, from what you have done to us.

[edit on 22-5-2005 by Syrian Sister]

[edit on 22-5-2005 by Syrian Sister]



posted on May, 22 2005 @ 06:59 AM
link   
I'm not sure why your "graphic images" were censored Sister and mine wasn't.
Maybe its because i actually told people exactly what they were going to view by clicking the link? I do know that one of your pictures was changed to a link because it contained profanity. Thats all i can think of. Maybe you ought to ask the mods via U2U?

You might also want to fix your post above. Its one big link. Looks like you typed within the link.



posted on May, 22 2005 @ 07:54 AM
link   
double post..sorry

[edit on 22/5/2005 by SportyMB]



posted on May, 22 2005 @ 07:56 AM
link   

Originally posted by Syrian Sister


Shots

This is the correct definition of propoganda.


Propaganda is a specific type of message presentation aimed at serving an agenda. At its root, the denotation of propaganda is 'to propagate (actively spread) a philosophy or point of view'. The most common use of the term (historically) is in political contexts; in particular to refer to certain efforts sponsored by governments or political groups.


en.wikipedia.org...



Again you are using it in general context, but we are not talking in general context here we are talking during war time.



From American Heritage Dictionary

prop·a·gan·da (pr¼p”…-g²n“d…) n. 1. The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those people advocating such a doctrine or cause. 2. Material disseminated by the advocates of a doctrine or cause: the selected truths, exaggerations, and lies of wartime propaganda.




from answers.com
1. The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause.

2. Material disseminated by the advocates or opponents of a doctrine or cause: wartime propaganda.


It is one of the most troublesome words in the English language. To define it clearly and precisely, so that whenever it is used it will mean the same thing to everybody, is like trying to get your hands on an eel. You think you’ve got it-then it slips away.





[edit on 5/22/2005 by shots]



posted on May, 22 2005 @ 08:49 AM
link   

Originally posted by Syrian Sister
I gave you a link from CBS!!!! that's an american channel is it not? I agree with you that it's bias, but i would say it's pro-US bias and i would think that you would accept that


No, your link was for CBC...stress the "C" not the "S" at the end of "CB". Two totally sites. Do you think we do not notice your lies and the way you manipulate the truth(if that). As you like to say, HAH, sweety you are wrong.

Here's the link for you again

There is a difference in the two....yes CBS is American, Im glad you know this, but CBC is Canadian....notice the .ca....thats means Canada.

[edit on 22/5/2005 by SportyMB]





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