What We Iraqis Want

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"THey cannot swing a majority of Iraqis to their point of view so they kill anyone who works for the elected government of Iraq. The poor souls who have bought into this kind of power grab become pawns of power hungry men who would be Hitlers and pol pots if they were given the chance. THese are not idealists fighting for freedom. They are murderers and criminals seeking power for themselves not rights and respect for their people. "


You nailed it.

These guys kill more Iraqi's than anybody else. They ARE the cause of the hardship, the killings, and they LENGTHEN the coalitions stay in Iraq. The more Iraqi's they kill, the longer the USA will stay, period.

Johannmon is 100% correct, these "freedom" fighters are nothing but common crooks taking advantage of the poor and deprived.

Originally posted by Kriz_4
This is a real live woman.

No it's not.

If it is a real woman, it's not a woman who lives in Iraq. I'd be extremely surprised if this person ever stepped foot in Iraq. Why? Many reasons including grammer, style, content, etc.



The site where that came from is also a huge hint.

The problem with the letter is that the departure of the Americans won't put Iraq back together again. The country was effectively split into three semi-autonomous zones after 1992 because of the brutal crackdowns on the other ethic groups. It will take a lot of work to keep Iraq together, regardless of whether the Americans stay or not. Without the Americans, I fear there's almost no chance and the Sunnis will be stuck without the support from the nation's vast oil reserves. If the Americans leave without having established a stable central government in Baghdad, chances are that the Kurdish and Shiite provinces will assume the oil reserves for their own governments and ally with external forces (including the US, Iran, etc.). Those regions will prosper while the impoverished Sunni areas will become a haven for terrorism.

it seems to me Syrian Sister prefers Saddam Hussein in power because he is a Sunni and supports and protects Sunnis only, Syrian Sister does care about the Kurds or Shiites who want the overthrow of Saddam. Also the chemical weapons usage, well lets say you should ask Russia about that since it seems all of Saddams weapons are Russian or maybe you should ask the Frenchies since they helped his nuclear ambitions. He got power by himself not by the CIA, if we supported him why did we support sanctions against him for over a decade? Also Saddam invaded two countries because i dink he was mad about somthin.

Originally posted by Syrian Sister

again, I'm guessing you're pro-resistance?

Yes

i am always pro the righteous people who are ridding their land of occupation. These are not the only heroic partisans i am Pro, i am also pro the resistance of france again nazi occupation, the resistance of Vietnamn against US/french occupation etc. etc.

Another question: Do you know any 'insurgents', 'resistance fighters', etc.?

Yes,

i do. I have been blessed to know them.

I notice that the willingness to resist seems to spring up now, after Saddam's brutal regime is no longer there. The mass graves are no longer being filled, the rape rooms are dormant, the cildren's prisons are empty and the plastic shredders are silent.

The "occupiers" are civil and polite; they even try and not disrespect the native customs and culture. These "occupiers" are easily stood up to. If you aren't killed in a clash, you can become a prisoner and not worry about facing any of the previously-mentioned horrors. What's a pair of underwear on the head compared to going into a shredder feet first, huh? Yeah, I'm really impressed. Pfft.
Where were the brace resistors when their children were being imprisoned, instead of being given candy? Brave, my arse.

You want us out? Here's a flash for you...I do not believe for one second that this operation was to "liberate" anyone, and I'm pretty sure that it is nothing more than an Illuminatic move carried out under the colors of "War on Terror", but the fact still remains that the Iraqi people are now free to march against there liberators if they choose. Were it up to me, they'd still be under the iron fist of Hussein and his two maniacal sons would still be enjoying their rape rooms.

Personally, I say we pull out, and pull out, now. Let the country fall into whatever situation the people of Iraq want or deserve. We have more important matters to tend to right here in our own back yard - not that our idiotic leaders will do a thing that should be done.

And, before anyone decides that I'm a cruel jerk-face, I do wish the best for them; especially the children.
I would hope that, no matter what direction they go in, it does not lead them back to the horrors committed by the likes of Hussein.

I actually partly agree with you Crowne. I don't know if this has always been your stance or whether you have had a turn around.

One thing though, Didn't the shredder ended up being a BS myth?

If you ever read the Bible, "pulling out," generally got you in trouble for a generation or so. What we know Iraqi's want:

McDonalds, KFC, Pizza Hut, fresh water...maybe Toys R' US? A university equal to Harvard or Yale and all the respect internationally that comes with it. To wake up, drink some tea and let their kids go to school, not having to worry wheter they will return or be kidnapped. That their country will not be a cesspool of car bombs, and international pissing contests for their commodities... maybe?

What we know Iraqi's don't want:

Car bombs to blow up their kids as they go to the market.
Marines to .50 cal a housing complex where 30 families live because the first shirt says there are a couple bad guys in there. When the first shirt says, "Fire for effect," you fire for a f%$$in effect.
Whitey Bush America to control their black gold.
They don't want Sadaam back, or his pervert kids.
The elected government is a joke - Iraqi's want results not statistics from military occupied green zones where it's safe for Halliburton to construct.

If we're gonna go all the way with the girl - don't be surprised if she don't want you to pull out.

hegemonyrules.net...

And those 2% are the people who are gaining money and power from collaborating. You know, hitler claimed to have "liberated" Poland when he invaded and occupied it. Yes he used the very words "liberated".


SportMB.

"This comment is pretty dam racist, wether it's true or not it should not be said out of common courtesy."

G... you really didn't try to hard your inner feelings very much did you sport? Common courtesty HAH!, that's one for the record books.

KiwiDave

Thankyou for your vote and your compliment! You are a really clever guy, and i agree with you about the short memory of the west, i know because i live in the west. However arabs remember the history from thousands of years ago... that is quiet a difference.
I hope i have been helpful to you Kiwidave.

elevatedone and Shots
Like i said to someone else from the very begining, propoganda by definition is the spreading of an idea, wether it's the wrong idea, or the right idea is up to you. However, the letter and women is real, and it is a first hand source into the minds of iraqies. It has nothing to do with me, the author, who does love a good arguement now and then.

mpeake

They are only abused because the US abused them.

ThatsJustWeird

You have NO evidence to back up that ridiculous statement because that is just an outright lie.

Ofcource i have evidence, Just ask and i will give.

I challange you to come up with just one piece of evidence to support your statement.

but are you sure you can handle it? I doubt it, i didn't even think you'd really dare to ask me to prove it. But since you did, i shall do so in my next post! Stay tuned everyone.

What a load of bull. Your credibility was already shot (not just from this thread), why are you making it worse?

I have met these refugees, who came to australia, and i spoke to them, and they where in abugharib when saddam was in power, and they where also in it when the US took power, they said the torture under saddam was not as bad as the torture under the US. That was what i heard from a first hand source. Take my word for it, or leave it. It's entirely up to you.

If it is a real woman, it's not a woman who lives in Iraq. I'd be extremely surprised if this person ever stepped foot in Iraq. Why? Many reasons including grammer, style, content, etc.

Another extremely racist comment, and people where complaining about the other guy. Are you not aware that many Iraqies studied abroad, mostly in britian, and then returned to iraq? Are you not aware that iraqies are extremely intelligent, and that most of them know better english grammer than some americans?

skippytjc
The French resistance against the Nazi occupation, executed many of those who collaborated with the nazi's, that includes those in the puppet vicci french government that was set up by the nazi's. There is absolutely nothing wrong with killing collaborators during an occupation.


vincere7

Thankyou for exposing what you are also. Your version of what "iraqies" want, "McDonalds, KFC, Pizza Hut, fresh water...maybe Toys R' US?" sounds more like what the Capitalists in the US administration want. Your orwellian version of freedom is not what is going to happen to iraq. But thankyou for saying what you did Vincere, because i'm going to be quoting you with that for a long long time to come.

You see, the US doesn't really want freedom in iraq, what they want is a pro-US capitalist regime, that will sell off iraq's oil/resources cheaply and would allow big companies to loot the rest.

This is the US's Vision of iraq, thankyou For proving that fact to everyone here vincere7.




MOST IMPORTANTLY, CROWNE

Though i don't agree with you about the other things your said, I agree with the most important thing that you said.

Iraqies deserve to be left alone, to choose their own fate.

Whatever they choose i don't mind at all, ofcource i hope that they make the right choice, but i support theirr right to choose their own path without foreign intervention, without occupation. This is what real freedom is, not the MCdonalds above.

I am glad you think it is time, for the US to pull out of iraq. This has nothing to do with you. You see that now don't you, you have no place in iraq. You are not wanted. End this war. It has cost enough of your lifes, and the interests of the iraqi people are non of your concern. So take your mens and bring them back to their families, where they belong.

But then... your government won't will it? And do you know why that is, because governments don't care about people, the notion is laughable, what governments care about is what they can profit, their own agenda. I think you would find, that if all the americans said, "it's not worth our mens lifes, they don't even appretiate us", your government will say, "no we must stay in iraq", it's because they dont' care about what iraqies want, they care about OIL, all they care about is oil. They don't care about iraqi lives, they don't care about US lives, they don't care about iraqi freedom, and they don't care about US freedom. What they care about is oil, power, resources, mcdonalds, profit, business!

And now that you know that because i have told you, FIGHT IT! You blame iraqies for not resisting the dictator that you put into power in the first place enough. But what about your uprising? Where is your resistance!?

Adressing the other things you said.

I notice that the willingness to resist seems to spring up now, after Saddam's brutal regime is no longer there.

You forget the fact that they did resist in 1991, the shia uprising that was betrayed by the US. It is up to a people AND ONLY up to a people, to rise against it's own government. It has nothing to do with you.

the mass graves are no longer being filled

What about the graves due to US bombing in Fallujah, al basrah, ramadi etc..?

the rape rooms are dormant, the cildren's prisons are empty

Men, Women AND Children, continue to be raped at Abu Gharib. Ask me to prove it.


You are a clever guy Crown because you see, it's time you leave. Is it really worth all your lives and effort, this oil?



[edit on 21-5-2005 by Syrian Sister]

"This comment is pretty dam racist, wether it's true or not it should not be said out of common courtesy."

G... you really didn't try to hard your inner feelings very much did you sport? Common courtesty HAH!, that's one for the record books.

Tell me, what is my inner feelings? What did I not try hard to hide?
SS, I did not agree with what he said, I made that clear. I simply meant that there are some things that people should just keep to themselves and not say....it's called being courtieous to others.

Sorry that you took that the wrong way......



[edit on 21/5/2005 by SportyMB]

Why apologize sporty?
You made your statement because you and many others thought it was wrong what was said. I too thought it was despicable.

Sister cannot see why you said that. Don't waste your time mate.
I understood your sentiments........

Sporty and bikkeredie

Sporty appologised if i miss understood.

however, i am sure i did not.

The way you said what you said it sporty, was a subtle way of saying, you agree with the "rephrehensible comment" but you just wouldn't say it out loud.

"wether it's true or not it should not be said out of common courtesy."

"Even if it where true" Is often used as a suttle way of saying "well although it's true"

And then you top it off with "common courtesty" hahaha, you DIDN'T say those things should NOT be said because they are RACIST and UNTRUE, but they shouldn't be said out of "common courtesy"?

You didn't say his statements where reprehensible because they where racial vilifications and total defamation. You said he shouldn't say it out of "common courtesty" as if it's some sort of charity.

Please, sporty, please, SPARE ME. I am quiet sure i did not missunderstand you.


As for "that's just weird" you challanged me to come up with evidence that proves the US killed more people than Saddam. I said i would do it in the next post and so i will.

First off i would just like to point out, that Saddam was a CIA agent who was helped into power by the US and supported by the US when he was at his most despotic, that is, when he killed the most amount of iraqies.

First off, 100,000 thousands iraqies where killed during the invasion of iraq.
Most of which where women and children. This is from main stream new sources.

Most of the extra deaths in the first 18 months of the occupation were due to violence, the researchers said – in particular, air strikes that claimed civilian casualties.

"Most individuals reportedly killed by coalition forces were women and children," they wrote.

www.cbc.ca...

But what about before the invasion?

Did you know that Iraqi was being bombed all the time, MONTHS BEFORE the actual invasion of iraq? Before the weapons inspectors even had a chance to enter iraq and prove that there where no WMD's.

Ten days ago, they were about to resume. Hans Blix, the head of the UN inspections body, was due to meet Iraqi officials in Vienna, to discuss the practicalities of re-entering the country. The US airforce launched bombing raids on Basra,

www.firethistime.org...

How many iraqies died in those bombings?

What about before that? Let's go back a bit more.

The sanctions the US pressured the UN into keeping onto iraq, how many iraqies did those sanctions kill? The oil for food program. Which led to the death of 1.5 million iraqies, 2/3rds of which where under the age of 5. Which you said was "worth it" .

www.icti-e.com...

What about the depleted uranium you used, that resulted in the horendous birth defects? still borns etc?

What about all the heroic iraqi resistance that where killed, what about them? They are iraqies too.

So you see, the US killed more iraqies than Saddam, and unlike Saddam, they continue to do so. Civilians and resistance the same.


[edit on 21-5-2005 by Syrian Sister]

I think when he made the comment about Iraqi children wanting McDonalds and such, he mean't food in particular. ................

Originally posted by Syrian Sister
elevatedone and Shots
Like i said to someone else from the very begining, propoganda by definition is the spreading of an idea, wether it's the wrong idea, or the right idea is up to you. However, the letter and women is real, and it is a first hand source into the minds of iraqies. It has nothing to do with me, the author, who does love a good arguement now and then.

You are using it in the most general term and that is wrong.
When used in conjunction with war by definition it means

"Material disseminated by the advocates of a doctrine or cause: the selected truths, exaggerations, and lies of wartime propaganda.


In this case the letter is clearly only one persons views and filled with lies and more lies. Hardly what I would consider a reprsentation of the majority of Iraqi's. If you can produce another 12 million single letters from 12 million different individuals stating similar views, you might have a point, however at this time you have no leg to stand on.

Now, rant and rave about those that held one or two protests consisting only of thousands of people not millions and you would still loose since that is again only a minority representation. Using a figure of 300 thousand that would be less then one percent of the population, yet you have the gall to post a letter from one person who states "What we Iraqi's want", give me a break.

She is just one pea in the pod, albeit a rotten one that is filled with nothing but hatred.

@ Syrian Sister

As an American, and a conservative one at that, I'm against the Iraq war. I for one would like this country to keep its nose out of other nations' business. I freely admit we're the World Buttinskies.

Our government is supposed to provide for OUR country's welfare first and foremost. I'm pro-American sovereignty.

My question is...was Saddam the bad guy he's been portrayed as here, or is it just propaganda/manufacturing a "good" reason for invasion? My husband always says, believe half of what you see and none of what you hear.

Originally posted by elevatedone

Originally posted by Kriz_4

Originally posted by elevatedone

How does the fact it is one woman and one letter automatically make it propoganda?

This is a real live woman.

I know thats a real woman... I meant more propaganda being presented by the author of this thread.... it's another hate America thread thats been started and all the author wants to do is present thier views and put down our troops and America... then all the author does is argue with everyone, and the ones who won't argue back, just keep getting the invite to argue...



[edit on 20-5-2005 by elevatedone]

So if you disagree with what America does, then you are automatically a traitor? I don't think so.

Going against the Constitution (fighting an illegal, undeclared war) is what's treasonous. I love America--I just don't like who's running the show, that's all.

So to sum up your POV, you love America if you're for the Iraq war; if you're against the war, you hate America. Now that's pretty narrow-minded there. I'm not so much pro-war as pro-DEFENSE. I'm against unjustified war, which is what the Iraq war is.

Now if Iraq attacked us, then war against them would be okay. Not "they MIGHT attack us." What a crock!

Originally posted by Syrian Sister
Sporty appologised if i miss understood.

It's all good

you DIDN'T say those things should NOT be said because they are RACIST and UNTRUE

This is totally FALSE...where did you come up with that?
Your problem is that you do read entire post...only what you want and what suits you. Allow me o refresh your memory, here is what is in my post that you are reffering to....I did say that his comment was racist.

This comment is pretty dam racist, wether it's true or not it should not be said out of common courtesy.

And I even said that his comment was false....that he was stereotyping.

despite popluar belief most of them do bathe on a regular basis. Of course In Iraq as in most Combat zones it might be difficult to do so at the present time

This is true...I challenge you to go back and read my post.....I am not racist and did not say anything that would make me out to be
--------------------------------

First off, 100,000 thousands iraqies where killed during the invasion of iraq.

The website you reference this to is not a credible site...where is the mainstream news sources you spoke of?

Even these websites say otherwise......
www.iraqbodycount.net is more like it.....This one too

BBC reports 37,000 max as of October

Iraqi was being bombed all the time, MONTHS BEFORE the actual invasion of iraq

Again, please provide good sources...www.firethistime.org is not one of them.

What about all the heroic iraqi resistance that where killed, what about them? They are iraqies too

They were combatants...just like the US troops, and they were also responsible for thier share of Iraqi deaths....were they not?
CNN, Insurgents dressed in Iraqi military uniforms killed an officer and his son

CBS, Suicide bombers killing Innocents

Iraqi Insurgents kill civilians









[edit on 21/5/2005 by SportyMB]

[edit on 21/5/2005 by SportyMB]

Having just read the letter again, i find this quote smacks of hypocrisy.

Go home to your wives, your children, to your loved ones, do not stay here to torture and kill us, for us if stay, God will surely punish you and your country and you will lose your limbs, your life and also eventually your souls, your families and you will end us with nightmares and sickness from the Depleted Uranium and your own sense of guilt for having killed Iraqis for the devil himself, George W. Bush — may he be damned unto hell itself and burn eternally.

She speaks of torture and loss of limbs etc.

Take a look at this link, It is Extremely Graphic and contains images from Saddam's reign, and what he did.
Do not look at the images if you are sensitive to seeing people dead, gassed and tortured.

members.cox.net...

[edit on 03/12/04 by Bikereddie]

I don't see how people can justify Saddam and his henchmen....CIA empowerment or not...he is/was an evil man that commited many atrocites and was directly responsible for many deaths. And he and his goonies should dealt with for thier crimes..along with the Insurgents.

It's always someone else's fault for the Arabs, you will not see any capacity for introspection or responsibility for those brought up to be submissive to Allah, or at least what the local Imam says Allah wants them to do.

As far as the guilt of the west in arab affairs, there is a case to be made that the artificial countries of Iraq, Syria, etc. that were split off the Ottoman empire and concieved on the back of a cocktail napkin at Winston Churchill's gentleman's club were a bad idea from the start. The only thing stopping them all from murdering each other is that they for the moment seem more united for the purpose of murdering Jews.