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What We Iraqis Want

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posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 06:44 PM
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posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 06:55 PM
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i think that the starter of this thread has no write to say the american forces were in the wrong.
how dare the person believe that the war was wrong and deny the freedom of a whole country. anyone who is religious would agree with me. sadaam hussein commited mass murder and torture and to allow him to stay in power is a crime to humanity. many hundreds of thousands of people may have been killed but freedom will have been enusred for countless future generations.
anyone who disagrees with the war is a traitor to humanity and believes that to deny the freedom of a country is acceptable.



posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 06:57 PM
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Originally posted by The Herbaliser
i think that the starter of this thread has no write to say the american forces were in the wrong.
how dare the person believe that the war was wrong and deny the freedom of a whole country. anyone who is religious would agree with me. sadaam hussein commited mass murder and torture and to allow him to stay in power is a crime to humanity. many hundreds of thousands of people may have been killed but freedom will have been enusred for countless future generations.
anyone who disagrees with the war is a traitor to humanity and believes that to deny the freedom of a country is acceptable.


I think we should look at the motivations for the war before we look at some of the other things that happened along the way. I don't think America invaded Iraq to liberate the people of Iraq, I think we had far more geostrategic interests in mind.



posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 06:58 PM
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I know what the Iraqis want. A good solid beaten. Everyone needs one once in a while to set them straight.



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 12:42 AM
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Delta boy


not all of them have the same view of the humaniarians, since she is an infidel they pretty much can kill her all they want and they did. there are different resistance people with different agendas.


There are both christians and muslims in the resistance, the writer of the letter above is a christian. And in Islam just because your not a muslim doesn't mean you can be killed! That is a lie you have been fed by your media. The kuran is not the talmud where everyone who is not jewish is "goyim" and worthless, the quran is not the bible where everyone who isn't christian is a heathen, the quran says if you kill any innocent, it is as if you slaughtered the whole of humanity, the quran says, christianity and judaism are both religions of god. Even wahabi's would not think it is ok to kill someone just because they are not muslim. You see the kind of lies the US imperialist machine has put you under?

This war is not about religion, this war is about the iraqi people wanting to rid themselves of occupation, and the US wanting iraq's oil just like xman in black said.

Sanctum

I saw it,
did you see the mehdi army shouting "victory! Victory! Victory!"

vincere7


Syria, and many groups are behind the suicide bombing


I challange you to prove this comment. And all of you bare witness if he attempts to meet this challange or not.

You accuse me of lying and scewing facts, but i challange you to prove just that simple statement. Or did you just bring it out of god knows where?


Rogue


There is something called DNA, if you hvae ever heard of that. They are always body parts left ovr from a Homicide bomber.


And there is something called YOU NEED A REFERENCE for DNA.

You can't just grab a sample of blood from somewhere then it tells you exactly who that person is and that he was the bomber, you need a refrence of blood already taken from that person to compare it with!

There is blood all over the place after these bombings, which drop of blood can be tested for DNA rogue? and which one of those drops can you tell came from the bomber, and if so, what is the refrence that you use, where is your data base for DNA of different people?

I think it is YOU, that should open your eyes Rogue, your a clever guy so please think harder about this things before you make these ludicurous comments.

bikkeredie



he pictures come from this site.
www.iraq-war.ru...

The language is both Russian and English.
I was browsing the images on this site, when i got the message that i could no longer view them, but i kept at it and finally got to see them.

This link is for the gallery on the site. Some of you may recognize some of the pictures. They were posted here by SS.


LOOOOOLOLLLLLLOLOL!!!!!!!! that is because, i uploaded some of those images on that site, into the image gallerie!!! Thousands of people upload images onto that site.

ATS doesn't really provide a good upload facility. But www.iraq-war.ru is not the source of those pictures. Those pictures are many months old and from a protest in the US, from a site similar to www.sorryworld.com


www.refuseandresist.org...

Anti-War Americans Sending Photos to Iraq



By JIM FITZGERALD, Associated Press Writer

This group from St. Louis, Missouri submitted this undated photo to the ...More...

NYACK, N.Y. - More than 2,000 people opposing the war in Iraq, including the father of an American beheaded by terrorists, are sending Iraqis personal photos with protest messages to show "what Americans are really like."

The pictures, from all around the country, are meant to be a counterpoint to the infamous images of Americans abusing Iraqi prisoners. Each photo shows at least one sign, usually handmade. Some specifically criticize U.S. actions in the war while others simply extend sympathy to Iraqi civilians.

"With deep shame, we apologize for the suffering our country has brought to the people of Iraq," says a banner in a photo showing 11 people in Vancouver, Wash. Three elderly people in Minneapolis declare, "All our children long for a new day."


If you plan to accuse me of fraud ever again, i suggest you do some homework first.


The Herbaliser

Your the second person to say "how dare i " the first was, michael_vts.

Yes, how dare i tell the truth to the whole world, when there are government agencies listening as vincere 7 has said. How dare i?

Because i have guts and daring, and i will make that kind of sacrafice for the truth. To think that the US can give freedom to any country is laughable. They put Saddam up into power in the first place, and they supported him, and now they are putting up someone just like him. They support dictatorships all over the world, and they support coups against democratically elected presidents, like salvador allende' and chavez. Iraqies aren't buying your pseudo-freedom, they want real freedom and self determination out side your influence.

If you are serious about supporting freedom for iraq herbaliser, then support the iraqi resistance.

[edit on 11-6-2005 by Syrian Sister]



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 12:59 AM
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Originally posted by Syrian Sister

Atleast you agree that this war is about oil though, why don't you stand up and say it louder? They say the truth is the first cassualty of war, you can take your lifes, you can take our freedom, and you can take our oil. But please, atleast, ATLEAST, spare the truth, and don't pretend you are benevolantly here to save us. You are in iraq for oil. So say it loud and clear xman, you would atleast earn my respect.


Earn your respect? Before I could delight in the wonders of your 'respect' I must tell you that I would go to war for oil because I know that without cheap oil, the US economy would crash. I don't need a false ideal like the liberation of the Iraqi people to ensure the stability of oil resources for years to come.

I am more that happy to fight for the ability to keep my family in a lifestyle free of bombs and food shortages. I am proud to admit that the biggest worry they will have is what to watch on television tonight or what restaurant they will go to or which movie they will see at the theater. US families are spoiled. It is true. Our system may not be the best on the planet, but is just fine for me.

If it takes the elimination of people to ensure my family's well being, I will gladly support that decision and even help if called upon to do so. I know that this 'freedom' is not free by any means. This is what it is all about. The well being of my family versus the well being of your family. If it comes down to it, I will choose mine. It is the oldest reason for war. That is why the Native Americans had war parties attack anyone who would affect their hunting grounds. Even other tribes of Native Americans. No politics, just food and survival for another season. My head is not in an ivory tower where no one dies and they all live happily ever after.

I know EXACTLY why we fight and I support the war whole-heartedly. Even if we must withdraw eventually, every day we fight secures the oil resources for one more day. That is one day longer that our way of life continues. We can drive HUGE cars, go to a supermarket and get fat by eating almost anything we want. Sit in comfortable chairs and type meaningless drivel* on a computer with others.

Footnote:
*Vincere7, I owe you an apology.



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 01:01 AM
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Originally posted by Syrian Sister
I think it is YOU, that should open your eyes Rogue, your a clever guy so please think harder about this things before you make these ludicurous comments.
[edit on 11-6-2005 by Syrian Sister]


Usually there are specific blast patterns left on a person if they were a suicide bomber, their entire body is not usually entirely obliterated. I don't want to link you to pictures but depending on the placement of the explosives and the explosives used there are usually identifiable remnants left of the person which are broken apart and remain in such a way that forensic scientists (and even civilians if they read up) can deduct who the bomber was and what type/placement of explosive were used. I would link you to pictures but all the ones I found were on sites with pop-ups and sites that dealt with dark matters and gruesome pictures in general, which I do not wish to link to and thus support indirectly.



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 01:23 AM
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How about just the basics.

Ali's sense of outrage moved him to sign up. The thought of U.S. troops around the holy shrines of Karbala and Najaf "made me sick," says the 25-year-old Lebanese Shiite. So a few months ago he joined a group of 50 or so men from the town of Baalbek, in Lebanon's Bekaa Valley, who had decided to fight in the Iraqi resistance. They traveled to the battlefield by way of Damascus.

Ali rode in the back of a pickup from the Syrian capital across the Iraqi border with five other enlistees, all of them carrying false Iraqi IDs issued to them in Syria. Later the group hid in the secret compartment of a meat truck, for the journey's final leg down the highway to Karbala. After 10 days' training with 200 other newcomers, Ali was issued an AK-47, a black headband and a green uniform. He spent the next month serving against the Americans as a member of the Mahdi Army, headed by the Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr. Who sent the Lebanese contingent to Iraq? Ali says it's no mystery: "Baath Party people."

The Syrian government, which denies aiding the insurgency, purports to have clamped down on its Iraqi border. But smugglers don't seem intimidated. In Lebanon's biggest Palestinian-refugee camp, Ein Hilweh, a veteran Palestinian fighter, displays 15 falsified Iraqi passports. He says he has visited Iraq three times since the war began, escorting new recruits for the insurgency. They traveled from Damascus to Baghdad via commercial bus. Each passport goes for $1,000, he says.

Ledeen: I wrote the first edition of "The War Against the Terror Masters" a year before the start of the war in Iraq, and in it I said that Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia could not tolerate an American success in Iraq, and would send terrorists, assassins, kidnapers and the like against us. Their goal would be to repeat what they believe to have been their great success in Lebanon against us in the 80s and against Israel in the 90s.

So this was obviously going to happen, it was clear a long time ago, and indeed they told us they were going to do it. Bashar Assad gave an interview shortly after the start of the war in which he said explicitly that "Lebanon was the model" for their strategy.

May: Barham Saleh, the Iraqi Kurdish prime minister said it best: "Iraq is the nexus where many issues are coming together -- Islam versus democracy, the West versus the axis of evil, Arab nationalism versus some different types of political culture. If the Americans succeed here, this will be a monumental blow to everything the terrorists stand for."

But I’m not sure I agree that it is ominous that the Jihad is now centering in Iraq. Were these Jihadists not coming to Iraq, they’d be going somewhere else to wage war against America. Is it not better to have them facing 101st Airborne in Tikrit, rather than crossing the Canadian and Mexican borders in search of shopping malls to suicide-bomb? It’s not as if these terrorists -- were they not coming to Iraq -- would be enrolling in hotel management schools in Karachi, and watching over the progress of their 401k’s.

The Jihadists have declared war on America. They have committed acts of war against America. Now we have to fight and win this war – we have no other choice. We can not make ourselves inoffensive to the Jihadists. And winning this war means, among other things, depriving the Jihadists of territory, toppling what Dr. Ladeen calls the “terrorist masters” (such as Saddam Hussein), attempting to create civilized societies in former despotisms such as Iraq, and destroying the Jihadist terrorists wherever we find them and wherever they find us.



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 01:30 AM
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No offense taken xman, back to back in the trenches is what matters to me.



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 04:07 AM
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xman in black


Before I could delight in the wonders of your 'respect'


very ammusing



I must tell you that I would go to war for oil because I know that without cheap oil, the US economy would crash. I don't need a false ideal like the liberation of the Iraqi people to ensure the stability of oil resources for years to come.


GOOD, atleast your honest about it. Alteast you admit that this whole war is just to take someone elses resources so you can enjoy a better life. Personally, i wouldn't kill people and invade a country just so i can lead a more comfortable life, but atleast you admit what you do. You have certainly, earnt my respect, thankyou for sparing the truth.

vincere 7

Many people ask me to source my quotes. And although i tell them they can find the source simply by using google, they continue to insist.
I guess it is some sort of rule here, i don't want to appose any rule. SO please, source your quote.

Then we can talk


I never denied that there are non-iraqi arabs fighting in the resistance, i am just saying the vast majority of the resistance are iraqies, and even the US admits that, as i showed above. Besdies what's wrong with the small trickle getting through the border, the US is allowed to have allies but iraqies are not? We the arabs are united by blood and history. We are family, ofcource we are going to allie with each other, inspite of your governments. It's sad that not enough of this happens, the whole world should be joining the resistance and supporting iraq's struggle.

Besides i asked you to prove the statement you made " Syria, and many groups are behind the suicide bombing". What you showed me is that one lebanese guy has joined the iraqi resistance, mehdi army. Your article far from proved your statement.

[edit on 11-6-2005 by Syrian Sister]



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 05:39 AM
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if the iraqis wanted freedom so much from sadaam hussein they would have done something but they didnt because they were to scarred. one person rebels and speaks out against him and all of their family are killed. any sane person would never risk the lives of their family.

the motives behind the iraq war may have been wrong.

did you not see all of the iraqis sellebrating when amercia took control of bagdad? but they were not sellebrating were they because they dont want freedom


if all of the bl00dy stupid people who resist amercia and the iraq police force left them alone true freedom will be restored quicker.

resistance my @rse, so killing fellow iraqis is the right thing to do. when i saw them dragging the bodies of the dead american soldiers through the streets i was furious. those who do such things are savages and cannot call themselves human.

i cannot wait till the day when the is true peace in the world. north korea becoming a democracy etc.



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 05:43 AM
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no wonder the american soldiers kick the sh!t out of the iraqis in prison whey they have had to see their friends and possibly family shot to pieces then the body humiliated. i would to, those who do such things do not deserve prison, this who the death penalty is for.



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 05:56 AM
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if the iraqis wanted freedom so much from sadaam hussein they would have done something


They tried remember, 1991 uprising where the US betrayed the Shia. The US is and always has been, worse than Saddam, Saddam was the student where as the US was the teacher. And Saddam was alot of terrible things, but he was also, iraqi. Besides, it has nothing to do with you, it is only up to iraqies to do something about it. You don't see syria coming to america to remove george bush for you do you? If it did, would you appretiate it? Even if you hated bush, you wouldn't appretiate it.

Iraqies are have chosen to resist. This time, iraqies are fighting for their freedom.

Where as by Xman in blacks own admition, the US soldiers are dying for nothing but oil and profits.

CaptainJailew


depending on the placement of the explosives and the explosives used there are usually identifiable remnants left of the person which are broken apart and remain in such a way that forensic scientists


That's very interesting, do you have a degree in forensic science to make such assertions?
I doubt what you said very much, since in such a case the body parts would be blown a great distance apart, and burnt beyond recognition. And the kind of scientific expoloration you described into finding who the bomber was would take in the least, several months, where as the media trumps "suicide bomber charges" within days. However, you would care to prove that such scientific investigations occur, please
be my guest.


Also, thankyou for your honesty.


I don't think America invaded Iraq to liberate the people of Iraq, I think we had far more geostrategic interests in mind.


[edit on 11-6-2005 by Syrian Sister]



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 06:05 AM
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Originally posted by The Herbaliser
no wonder the american soldiers kick the sh!t out of the iraqis in prison whey they have had to see their friends and possibly family shot to pieces then the body humiliated. i would to, those who do such things do not deserve prison, this who the death penalty is for.


Well, atleast your honest. Now, does anyone think that people who appose Human rights, the geneva convention, and those who condone torture, could possibly give anyone freedom?


In that case, i have a song for you
And don't worry moderators, the author of this song freely puts it up on the net and has no copy write on it. And i'll only post part of it just to make you happy.

www.davidrovics.com... it's called "after we torture our prisoners".


We'll get rid of the dictator, rebuild your country
Make sure all your kids go to school
We'll clean up the cities, get the sewage plants running
Institute parliamentary rule
We'll bring you autonomy, senators and judges
And a shiny new blue banner
We'll bring you pride and prosperity, food in your bellies
In every home a phone, fax and scanner
After we torture our prisoners

We'll bring you decades of peace, spiritual release
Free religious expression
You can say what you want in the papers you run
We'll never force a confession
After we torture our prisoners

You won't have to worry about tyrants and bullies
Now that you have sovereignty
You can hold your head high, kiss Saddam goodbye
Say hello to democracy
After we torture our prisoners



It's quite a catchy tune!



[edit on 11-6-2005 by Syrian Sister]



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 06:34 AM
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Originally posted by Syrian Sister


Rogue


There is something called DNA, if you hvae ever heard of that. They are always body parts left ovr from a Homicide bomber.


And there is something called YOU NEED A REFERENCE for DNA.

You can't just grab a sample of blood from somewhere then it tells you exactly who that person is and that he was the bomber, you need a refrence of blood already taken from that person to compare it with!

There is blood all over the place after these bombings, which drop of blood can be tested for DNA rogue? and which one of those drops can you tell came from the bomber, and if so, what is the refrence that you use, where is your data base for DNA of different people?

I think it is YOU, that should open your eyes Rogue, your a clever guy so please think harder about this things before you make these ludicurous comments.



I don't know how it started... just opened the last page of this topic.
But as far as i know the bomber is usually the one who has been the most shredded by the explosion so the smallest parts are usually those of a bomber. Furthermore, DNA can be extracted from bone pieces so you can just compare the DNA extracted from different pieces found on the bombing scene and u could know if these parts belong to the same person. It may be hard (thousands of parts) but it's feasable

As for a DNA reference you get one from the relatives of the suspect...



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 06:51 AM
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Furthermore, DNA can be extracted from bone pieces so you can just compare the DNA extracted from different pieces found on the bombing scene and u could know if these parts belong to the same person.


Are you attempting to say that the refrence you are going to compare the sample to, is the sample itself?


So what if one peace of bone fragement tells you another peace is from the same person, it doesn't tell you the identity of the owner of the fragement. And it doesn't tell you that the owner of that bone fragement was the bomber.

And to get a refrence from a family member, you would first have to know the identity of the bomber inorder to find the family member in the first place, that defies the whole reason for conducting a DNA test.

Is there anyone out there who can understand this? Or is what i am saying here just echoing to the walls?



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 07:00 AM
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Originally posted by Syrian Sister

Furthermore, DNA can be extracted from bone pieces so you can just compare the DNA extracted from different pieces found on the bombing scene and u could know if these parts belong to the same person.


Are you attempting to say that the refrence you are going to compare the sample to, is the sample itself?


So what if one peace of bone fragement tells you another peace is from the same person, it doesn't tell you the identity of the owner of the fragement. And it doesn't tell you that the owner of that bone fragement was the bomber.

And to get a refrence from a family member, you would first have to know the identity of the bomber inorder to find the family member in the first place, that defies the whole reason for conducting a DNA test.

Is there anyone out there who can understand this? Or is what i am saying here just echoing to the walls?




First of all: Comparing a sample to another one on the scene just that you could know which pieces belong to the same individual: you have parts of a dozen of individuals in the same scene... you should know that

And I also said the suspect's relatives so it's a way of being sure of the identity of the bomber not knowing the identity: If i didn't say this sentence before it is because I thought you would've understood it from what i said earlier



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 07:18 AM
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Comparing a sample to another one on the scene just that you could know which pieces belong to the same individual: you have parts of a dozen of individuals in the same scene... you should know that


I never even denied that!!!! But just because DNA tells you one body part belongs to the same body as another, doesn't mean it tells you who the person is, and does not tell you if that person is the bomber. This process could take several months if not years. Where as somehow it takes only 1 day for the US media too claim a "suicide bomber".

And as i said earlier, to find a persons relatives you have to first know who they are. Defing the purpose of doing a DNA test, in the first place. Rogue was saying you use DNA to find the identity of the person. You are saying there are other means of finding a supsect, please my dear, enlighten us on some of these other ways.

[edit on 11-6-2005 by Syrian Sister]



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 07:26 AM
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my mistake i didn't read what rogue originally said...

But anyway a DNA test is a verification test and this should be understood

A little off topic but now that we're mapping the human genes (or done mapping... don't know really) we could only hope that we can find out what the person looks like by only "reading" his genes or in addition of fingerprints maybe a "gene map" could be taken from every citizen of a country...



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 07:32 AM
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"But anyway a DNA test is a verification test and this should be understood"

Indeed we must. It must also be understood, that such test take time, and require a refrence.

You can't just say DNA as if it proves everything all at once just the mention of it.




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