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What We Iraqis Want

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posted on May, 25 2005 @ 02:44 PM
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resize that puppy


we're getting off track- me especially.

Sister has posted a litany of claims I still want to see some answers for.

The number one claim I can't find answers for is the claim that the 'insurgents' haven't killed any Iraqis.

I did Google and other search engines and nothing.

Does anyone have a link to something like this




posted on May, 25 2005 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by shots


No what you gave techincally speaking was a reference.

A dictionary is a list of words with their definitions, a list of characters with their glyphs, or a list of words with corresponding words in other languages.


Whatever.
Let me break out my Webster's New World College Dictionary, 4th edition, used by fine newspapers all across this great land. Afterall, you seem to be confused. I wouldn't feel right about loggin off until I spoon feed you a DEFINITION.


PROPAGANDA: Any systematic, widespread dissemination or promotion of particular ideas, doctrines, practices, etc. to further one's own cause or to damage an opposing one; ideas, doctrines, or allegations so spread: now often used disparagingly to connote deception or distortion.

Got it? Good.



posted on May, 25 2005 @ 02:52 PM
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Shots, the key word here is reference, which just means that if you don't know something you look up there. There is no standardized definition of things, not even in mathematics, as a description of an object is NEVER unique. If it was, we would be living in a schematic aristotelian ouline of a world governed by formal logical propositions, and discourses on this board would rather look like prolog code. As i see you headed, shots, into that direction, you'd better take a look at the following prolog definition of the Ackermann function and tell me if that's really want you want to become :

ack(0,N,Val) :- Val is N + 1.
ack(M,0,Val) :- M > 0, M1 is M-1, ack(M1,1,Val).
ack(M,N,Val) :- M > 0, N > 0, M1 is M-1, N1 is N-1,
ack(M,N1,Val1), ack(M1,Val1,Val).








[edit on 25-5-2005 by Moretti]



posted on May, 25 2005 @ 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by JoeDoaks

Sister has posted a litany of claims I still want to see some answers for.

The number one claim I can't find answers for is the claim that the 'insurgents' haven't killed any Iraqis.

Does anyone have a link to something like this


I gave her this is the there is no Zarqawi thread and she insists it was a lie and nothing more then poopaganda.



A tape said to have been recorded by terror mastermind Abu Musab al-Zarqawi condemns the new government in Baghdad and claims the killing of fellow Muslims is justified in attacks against U.S. soldiers and Iraqi security forces.

"God ordered us to attack the infidels by all means ... even if armed infidels and unintended victims — women and children — are killed together," the speaker said. "The priority is for jihad so anything that slows down jihad should be overcome."

The defense of the deadly attacks could be a recruiting tactic aimed at Sunni Arabs who initially didn't sympathize with the insurgency because of the deaths of innocents. The speaker claimed that top religious scholars have repeatedly sanctioned homicide bombings.

The audiotape, posted on the Internet, is believed to be the first from the Jordanian-born militant since the new Iraqi government was put in place in early May. In the past weeks, Al Qaeda in Iraq (search) — the group led by al-Zarqawi — and other terrorists have ramped up their campaign of car bombings, homicide attacks, shootings and kidnappings.


Zarqawi Tape Justifies killing of Muslims



As you can see the tape reportedly justified the killings of innocents and clerics denounced the insurgents for doing it, yet she claims the do not kill innocents, go figure.

I look at it this way I see her responses as those of a little kid throwing a temper tantdrum insisting they are right when they know they are wrong. Bla Bla Bla

[edit on 5/25/2005 by shots]

[edit on 5/25/2005 by shots]



posted on May, 25 2005 @ 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Whatever.
Let me break out my Webster's New World College Dictionary, 4th edition, used by fine newspapers all across this great land. Afterall, you seem to be confused. I wouldn't feel right about loggin off until I spoon feed you a DEFINITION.


PROPAGANDA: Any systematic, widespread dissemination or promotion of particular ideas, doctrines, practices, etc. to further one's own cause or to damage an opposing one; ideas, doctrines, or allegations so spread: now often used disparagingly to connote deception or distortion.


Nice try but that is not what their online version says nor is it in the proper format used in any dictionary I have seen

Main Entry: pro·pa·gan·da
Pronunciation: "prä-p&-'gan-d&, "prO-
Function: noun
Etymology: New Latin, from Congregatio de propaganda fide Congregation for propagating the faith, organization established by Pope Gregory XV died 1623
1 capitalized : a congregation of the Roman curia having jurisdiction over missionary territories and related institutions
2 : the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person
3 : ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause; also : a public action having such an effect
- pro·pa·gan·dist /-dist/ noun or adjective
- pro·pa·gan·dis·tic /-"gan-'dis-tik/ adjective
- pro·pa·gan·dis·ti·cal·ly /-ti-k(&-)lE/ adverb

www.m-w.com...




posted on May, 25 2005 @ 05:45 PM
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Alrighty then.


But guess what? I have effectively lured you away from the topic at hand.



posted on May, 25 2005 @ 05:52 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Alrighty then.


But guess what? I have effectively lured you away from the topic at hand.


Nope not lured at all just waiting for the author of the thread to show up and spread more of her poop a ganda


I simply answered because I wanted to point out what was clearly your poop a ganda since the way you put it was as if it came from the dictionary when it did not.

Repeat after me

No More Poop A Ganda


[edit on 5/25/2005 by shots]



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 02:56 AM
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I got a flash for you guys. The USA invaded Iraq illegally, using lies and under false pretenses. The Iraqs have an absolute frigging right to defend themselves---more--to kick out any invader they wish, any way they see fit. Don't even talk about an Iraqi government until the last GI is out of that country. Anything foisted upon the Iraqs under American duress is illegitiment and nothing more than "a puppet government" as Galloway told the Senate. Iraqs don't have to justify their behavior, Americans are the ones that do.



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 03:50 AM
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oblivion void.

again, the CIA is not behind the resistance. The Iraqi people are behind the resistance.

When bombs are planted, in our mosques, our churches, are markets, our schools, that's when the CIA is behind it.

The resistance, has no reason to kill their own families. Think logically. Who benefits.

And Al Jazeera isn't an NWO plot, it's just a controlled opposition, controlled by the same people who controll the US, the illuminati.

It's not a real opposition, it's a controlled one. That's why it perpetuate there lies, for instance, the lie that Zarqawi exists.

Sporty

As moretti said. Go read history of other more sinister psy-ops that have been conducted. Bombings here, assasinations there, coups a little here. Read.

My definition of propoganda, IS THE DEFINITION, OF PROPOGANDA.

deltaboy
They don't need to commit suicide, they just plant a bomb, arm it. Then let make their puppet media say it was " suicide bomber" which indeed, they never bother to prove.


Moretti
If i had another way above top secret vote, i'd vote for you. It's just a relief to know there are educated people out there.

Eastcoastkid
Thanks for making me proud of my vote!


forschung
Again, thankyou for your COURAGE!


Shots

Yeah right, you want me to post the exact quote because you can't bother to go and search for it yourself, Go learn how to use google shots.

The third convention, relative to the treatement of prisoners, article four. It's not that hard. Run along and find the quote.

The geneva conventions DOES cover a peoples resistance against occupation. And even the US was forced to admit, that it covers the iraqi resistance.

vincere7

Yes vincere, i know what rhetoric means, i am faced with your governments lies and rhetoric every time i turn on the news here.

Iraq's children are not like western children. If you ask them would rather be free of occupation or would they rather have a cheese burger, you can bet your life on the fact that they would not choose the cheese burger.


Self determination is an individual charactersitic child, not a national goal.


Bull crap.

"Self-determination is a principle in international law that a people ought to be able to determine their own governmental forms and structure free from outside influence. "

en.wikipedia.org...

Check mate.

Go chow down on a big mac vincere. "go enjoy life while you can", close your eyes and take a bite vincere, ignorance is bliss isn't it?

----------------------------------------


while what you said (fight for their freedom) sounds good it just is not a player. America will NOT leave as long as there is an activity insurgency. That is just a cold hard fact.


Bull crap, even if there was no one fighting them, they'd still find an excuse to stay, like "we are here to rebuild".
There there for the long run, they are there for the oil not for the security. they want it to be like germany and japan, a place to put their bases. They didn't need a resistance to stay in japan and germany did they? Well it's not going to be the way they want it. BECAUSE THIS IS IRAQ, and the iraqi people are something different entirely i assure you, iraq's people are not fools.
Iraq's occupation seems to be a part of some greater NWO plan, some kind of experiment, Well i'm here to tell you this experiment is going to fail, iraq will not stand to become a giant concentration camp capitalist dream.

one-shot

Atleast the you agree that the french did something right in executing collaborators.

Put food on the table HAH! at what expense, at the expense of the lives of others? at the Expense of iraq? THey are nothing but greedy opportunists who would betray their nation and their people for an extra buck, And deserve to die like the opportunist pigs that they are. I know, because i've spoken to pigs like this. Just as the french collaborators, there will be retribution for their crimes against the homeland.


lady of the lake
True freedom in this context lady, is to choose your own path without foreign intervention, pressure or coersion.
Lady, if Australia where occupied, i would fight to free it. Think long and hard about what YOU would do. Because if you are supporting occupation here, then you would probably support occupation in your own country too. Think about it, would you rather be a collaborater, or a patriot.

shots

[qupte]I gave her this is the there is no Zarqawi thread and she insists it was a lie and nothing more then poopaganda.

I NEVER CLAIMED THAT. And anyone can go to that thread and read "there is no such thing as AL Zarqawi", and see that i never claimed that. What i did claim however, was that the source you gave was IRRELEVANT. And you prove nothing with it, it certainly doesn't prove the existance of the video tape, because these where just reactions of people that heard about it from the official US line. Anyone can go read the thread and see for themselves.

And what's more, shots, i belive in that thread, you just quoted something from one Source, WICH YOU NEVER GAVE REFRENCE TOO, and you just put random websites that had nothing to do with the quote, and pretended the quote came from those sites. But i found you out. "frauds will be exposed" HAH.



[edit on 26-5-2005 by Syrian Sister]



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 03:53 AM
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Read your story. Something got missed I think seriously missed Syrian lady.. American Soldiers died defending Iraq as well as liberating it !

Dallas



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 04:25 AM
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Originally posted by Dallas

Read your story. Something got missed I think seriously missed Syrian lady.. American Soldiers died defending Iraq as well as liberating it !

Dallas


I don't know which story it is you are talking about.

American soldiers died uselessly for nothing but oil and lies.



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 04:39 AM
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You are hyping this up.....yeah there probably has been a very small number (maybe like 2 or 3 hell maybe even 8) of cases invloving sexual abuse/rape done by American troops to the local populas in Iraq

You are making out to be like it's a wide spread problem thats infecting all troops..it's not. There are a few bad nutshells in all armies/populations from all countries...


''This so-called ill treatment and torture in detention centers, stories of which were spread everywhere... — were not, as some assumed, inflicted methodically, but were excesses committed by individual prison guards, their deputies, and men who laid violent hands on the detainees."--Rudolf Hoess, SS commandant, Auschwitz.''


[edit on 26-5-2005 by Syrian Sister]



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 04:47 AM
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This site details what some real Iraqis want: Iraq the Model Blog.



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 05:01 AM
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Living in iraq right now. The most well written one i've encountered so far, is river bend.

riverbendblog.blogspot.com...

Shots,

Also look at, Geneva conventions Protocol 1, article 44, number 2.

[edit on 26-5-2005 by Syrian Sister]



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 05:19 AM
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Yes, I learned all about that blog. There's an entire blog devoted to exposing her lies!

Cry Me a Riverbend

More here:

Iraq the Model

And all over! LOL



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 05:26 AM
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Her lies?

She's an iraqi in iraq, she's clever and she is great representive of what iraqies are going through.

She's a hero too!

"I'll meet you 'round the bend my friend, where hearts can heal and souls can mend"

it's beautiful.

[edit on 26-5-2005 by Syrian Sister]



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 07:42 AM
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Originally posted by Syrian Sister
''This so-called ill treatment and torture in detention centers, stories of which were spread everywhere...

Syrian Sista.....notice in my post i said sexual abuse in the local populas

sexual abuse/rape done by American troops to the local populas in Iraq

I did not mean sexual abuse in the detention centers/prisons. I did not say that. I should have specified more clearly.

With that said, can you produce any evidence to show that American troops have sexually abused any women, kids or men in the local Iraqi population. Don't get we wrong, im not saying it has not gone on...I expect someone here to maybe produce a couple links that speak of one or two cases of sexual abuse to the local population, but not a massive bombardment of troops sexually raping and abusing the people of Iraq.



There are numerous accounts of systematic of local populations by american soldiers

This is wrong...this is clearly a lie. Please produce something thats shows a trend of systematic sexual abuse on the local polulations by American soldiers.

Again, one or two..maybe I would expect that at the most..which is far from systematic, trendy or on a large scale.

posted by Moretti


There are numerous accounts of systematic sexual abuse of local populations by american soldiers, in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere. They didnt even refrain from raping elderly women.


[edit on 26/5/2005 by SportyMB]



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 07:49 AM
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Don't get we wrong, im not saying it has not gone on...I expect someone here to maybe produce a couple links that speak of one or two cases of sexual abuse to the local population, but not a massive bombardment of troops sexually raping and abusing the people of Iraq.

Again, one or two..maybe I would expect that at the most..which is far from systematic, trendy or on a large scale.


Absolutely uncanny. You even managed to sound more like it this time.


''This so-called ill treatment and torture in detention centers, stories of which were spread everywhere... — were not, as some assumed, inflicted methodically, but were excesses committed by individual prison guards, their deputies, and men who laid violent hands on the detainees."--Rudolf Hoess, SS commandant, Auschwitz.''


It's amazing, same excuse, 60 years later.



[edit on 26-5-2005 by Syrian Sister]



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 07:56 AM
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Thanks Sys, for your vote of confidence.


You folks who denounce Syrian Sister and her views should listen more to what the peoples of that land have to say about the situation. Whether you understand this or not, the US government has and is feeding our country with lies and distortions through a compliant media. I say this as a former soldier who has been there myself.

Think about it.. If some country, or group countries invaded the USA, y'all know damn well the vast majority of us here at ATS would log off and go fight to our deaths, or until our land was free of occupiers. Iraq and Iraqis are no different.

Trust me when I say this (and if you study Mesopotamian history - only 100 or 130 years back), you will learn, NO FOREIGNERS occupy that land. The people there are different as Sys points out. They will not tolerate being ruled by outside forces. Fail to understand that at your own peril, or at the peril of your loved ones serving there. Know thine enemy!

It makes me sick. The whole way they went about this. The Iraqi people should be the friend of the USA. But back to the subject. BushCo. has made an enemy of them. That is their purpose, sadly.

It's all about the bases. It's all about the oil. They don't give a rat's a double s about the people. And for that, we will continue facing a resistance that cannot be put down.



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 08:00 AM
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Ok Syrian Sister, that's a very astute observation. And it's all well and good that you raise that point.

But the idea is to try and set an example here among the warmongers. The best way to do that is by providing sources and articles which back up your point, something they don't like doing much. And when they do get around to doing it, it's more often than not some laughably biased articles. The "left" here tend to do the same, but on average are able to produce the least laughable sources. That is my observation anyway.

SO I think you should do the right thing and provide SportyMB here with some info showing systematic rape and abuse of the Iraqi population. Not only to keep him quiet, but to set an example. Who cares if they dismiss it, which they probably will, what matters is you'll have done what many of them can't.

Anyway, SportyMB seems to have asked nicely. Which is kind of rare. maybe he likes you?




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