Do you believe a word about any Dulce story?

Originally posted by Gazrok
Not to mention, the proposed location makes no logistical sense....

That's one thing I still don't understand, as I mentioned above; why would someone hoax such a strange location? I mean, the story isn't played out enough to say it's for tourism reasons for the town or the reservation. As far as I know, none of the "witnesses" have any ties to that particular area outside of the story.

I mean, if someone were wanting to pose an honest sci-fi story, the location might be great for that, but why use it as a hoax site? If you're going to hoax something, you want to make it as believable as possible, or at least not give an obvious debunk like a location. You could use virtually any government facility--even a post office--and base your story on that. It would be by far more believable than Dulce/Archuleta Mesa because now you have a location run by people who are "known" to be witholding information and/or disinforming the public. Even if it's not an obvious facility, wouldn't it make much more sense to say that you worked at an installation that was around known government areas, say the testing grounds in Utah or Nevada?

That's the main thing that puzzles me about the Dulce story. I really can't comprehend why someone would go through all the time and trouble to create such a detailed account, and then have it all centered around a location that makes no sense whatsoever. They could've just copped out and gone with A51, every one's favorite UFO conspiracy center, or Los Alamos, or any number of known military facilities. Why create a brand new one? It'd be just as easy to fake a position as an under-the-table contractor for Ft. Bliss or Ft. Lewis, and you can still say that everyone who claims otherwise is either lying or just doesn't have the clearance.

This is something I'd really love to hear a theory in response if anybody has one.

Perhap's you can share some of your thoughts with us in support of your beliefs?
We been over the Bennowitz thing before and at that end seems to me we come out left v right.

Dallas

It's really more the others, such as Schneider, "Branton", etc. that really douse the whole thing.

The real problem I have with it is that it's just witness testimony. Not even an inkling of a paper trail supports this base's existence.

Take S-4 for example. Not much evidence there either, but there is of course the presence of A-51 right there, some witness testimony, sat pics showing what could be roads to it, etc. It's pretty much at the same point of believability as Dulce, and even IT has more going for it....

The other problem is that it's not needed. There are any number of places on already secure government land (especially in the area) that could easily house such a base...and keep it more secretive. Why an Indian Reservation? Doesn't add up.

It's been a while since I seriously looked at Dulce. Charlatan after charlatan, it simply didn't seem to warrant further investigation (imho).... Bennowitz was one of the more credible ones, but can't remember much more than that off the top of my head, would have to look into it again, seach old posts, etc.

I am with gazrok for the most part...
Dulce is the big question in the UFO lore...

The ONLY reason i could ever think of for a alien/human base being on an indian reservation is perhaps the protection it affords if experiments ever come to light...
they might be preserved from crimes against humanity charges since the deal was done on native reservation...

how many things go on at Dugway that are "crimes against humanity" and dont get publicized due to national secrets...
several apparently, but they do come to light, since the stories are all over the local paper. Same for area 51... lots of publicity every time a major sighting...

We don't hear anything from the dulce area... so either they are not permitted to tell us, or there is nothing there...

When you have a whole world to hide things in, it is better to be secret, but out in the open...
Los alamos= on the map
groom lake= on the map
tonapah nevada=on the map
airforce bases=always on the map...
Pine gap= on the map
why wouldn't we see some military presence (or at least large corporate) there?

I have been there many times, and although it is a unusual part of the country... there was nothing that looked like an underground support structure...
There would be some fencing somewhere around the entrances... there is none that i have seen... we also have a member from that area, that has looked extensively... They had no luck...
so

all signs point to no...

That's great you replied Gazrok and I have always respected your opinion. Would you still doubt if Ret. Col Wendel Stevens said the Dulce War happened in present tense?

Dallas

Dulce is ... well honestly dulce is crap. The american southwest has so many other areas of interest packed so close, yet the dual spectres of area 51 and "dulce" combined with the roswell tourist trap prevent people from really looking around at what's out beyond the sparse settlements. I believe the russian word for it is maskirovka.


Edit: stupid extra I in russian loan words

[edit on 8-8-2005 by Sugarlump]

Yes of course you would say something that. But I'm waiting on your reasoning so I can comment on the reasoning..

Dallas

Dallas I live in the american southwest. If you venture out away from the main traffic corridors late at night enough you will eventually see plenty of stuff that just isn't quite right. But the whole Dulce thing, lets just call it too convenient. Also it violates compartmentallization, so yeah there's my take.

So its a matter of convenience is it? Do you or anyone here realize that the last place a joint base would be is anywhere convenient..

They don't need to be near a city or town. That is the last place or anywhere near civilization a joint base would be near.

Thanks for your answer Sugarlump. However never follow the status quo-pro.. seldom is it right. Debunkers don't care about logic their first and continued mistake is exiting the path of resistance and finding a twig to say it was in the way therefore you did not see it.

Dulce was a real thing in my opinion based on stuff that is even more scarier thanks to the dissapearance of the witnesses.

So I suggest you take the time to read up on that base and come back and put your opinion accross once again. Debunkers are non believers that don't want to research the area first.

Dallas

Actually, this is about the only conspiracy here I can believe (not the part about aliens/lizard-men/etc) just because of the strange UFOs Ive seen while living here (about 30mi from Dulce). I talked about them in other threads so I wont bore you.

A buddy of mine used to do hazardous waste disposal and was taken to numerous hidden bases in northern NM. They are there! One is on the Navajo reservation near Ignacio. Not for sure about Dulce yet, but its entirely possible.

If its here I will find it...

[edit]
Either way, the story about the lizard-men would make a cool movie. Something different, anyway.

[edit on 8-8-2005 by jacquio999]

Lol dallas I have done my research on the subject... and honestly it just doesn't seem to add up to me. I could be wrong and their could be human cow slurry vats for the proper care and feeding of grays and their overlords. But I doubt it man.

And for the record I am not a skeptic I believe there are things out there, I just prefer more credible sources.

Very well Sugarlump. I suppose you checked and read Thomas Edwin Castello too. If so well see yah.
EDIT: Oh BTW you did check out dan Burisch yes? Different base but more skeptical stuff..

Dallas

[edit on 8-8-2005 by Dallas]

Originally posted by Whompa1
It sounds too much like it came straight out of hollywood to me. Ray guns, little green men, black helo's. It has it all. Its great to read about all this stuff but you know what show me proof. I want to shake its hand or punch it in nads depending on my mood and its plans for the earth.

Maybe Hollywood came from it? How many Alien/sci-fi films were made before the 30s?

Sorry, i'm not in the position, as a mere grain of sand in this universe, to be able to offer proof of life outside of Earth (or within Earth), wish i could thou, you'd be the first i would tell.

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
The ONLY reason i could ever think of for a alien/human base being on an indian reservation is perhaps the protection it affords if experiments ever come to light...
they might be preserved from crimes against humanity charges since the deal was done on native reservation...

Don't most people say that it was there or atleast partially there well before any human resided in it? How much weight would the Native Americans have in regards to a base/tunnel system that was there before them??

Has anyone done any research into how that land became native? Was it land that was used by the natives? Maybe the natives were given the top soil to keep people off it? I wonder if it's possible to trace native land history in that region to find out when they first started using that area?

Just wondering. I dont fully believe in Dulce but i wouldnt mind a visit if it were real!

That's great you replied Gazrok and I have always respected your opinion. Would you still doubt if Ret. Col Wendel Stevens said the Dulce War happened in present tense?

Why is it that every time some one comes up with a Government source saying the whole Dulce thing is bogus, the True Believers say "you can't trust the Government Guys!"

Yet the minute a Government Weenie says that there are Spaceship Guys and lizards and all, you hold him up as a valid source because he is (or was) a Government Guy!

How silly is that? It seem to me that you're going to assign credibility not based on anything but whether the person agrees with your pre-determined views.

And it's that kind of silliness that must make serious UFOlogists like Gazrok pull out his hair!

I'm not exactly sure what circles your circling around and who's relative you may be however, I ask..can you give the english version of words as to what your saying that a layman like me can understand, mayhaps answer?

Dallas

Originally posted by Dallas

I'm not exactly sure what circles your circling around and who's relative you may be however, I ask..can you give the english version of words as to what your saying that a layman like me can understand, mayhaps answer?

Dallas

Essentially, OTS is saying that the true judgment of how intelligent another mand is, is directly related to how much he agrees with you.

In other words, a government agent says, "There's no such thing as UFOs. You don't believe him, because you do believe in UFOs. You call him untrustworthy, etc. But if that same fellow came out and said, "Yes there are saucers and they are from the planet Munimula". If you believe that very thing, then you will be commenting on how wonderful, and smart he is.

You can not, unfortunately, have your cake and eat it too.

Thanks for answering a question put to Off The Street with all details but I'm waiting for Off The Street to answer the question.
You have been a great help..thanks.

Dallas

hmmmmmmm

well keemosabee

me thinks that's not a great idea

in fact, I had planned a trip out west , but not now.

no freaking way hoe-zay

and these skeptics, are gonna fill their pants some day when these things show up to "save us " after a major disaster.

that's some scary crap goin' on

I smell a big setup , that's been a long time in the making. ala cooking the frog slowly. and, umm, we're the frog...and well , you know the rest...

That's great you replied Gazrok and I have always respected your opinion. Would you still doubt if Ret. Col Wendel Stevens said the Dulce War happened in present tense?

I'd find it intriguing, but again, the lack of any paper trail and a few really unscrupulous witnesses make it hard to swallow.